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Default Oct 27, 2021 at 11:11 AM
  #1
I guess this could just as easily have gone in the work forum, or even Emotions as I think I need some help processing my reaction to something strange that happened at work.

I work in retail and it's the kind of store that has regular customers, one of my favourite parts of my job is chatting with customers as I work, even though I'm generally a quiet kind of person.

Anyhow a while back a regular customer seemingly out of the blue gave me his number, and tbh it freaked me out a little. Firstly I'm long time happily married (over 20 years) although I wear protective gloves at work so my wedding band isn't visible. This customer has seen me in passing outside though, one time I was with my grown son, another I was actually with my husband (although he mightn't have realised he was my husband), my wedding band would have been visible then.

I took the number because I didn't know what else to do, although I had no intention of calling him and have got rid of it. He's a nice enough guy but even if I were single I wouldn't have been interested in that way. I'm confused as to what made him think I would be. I think he probably got the message in my reaction which was a mixture of confusion and embarrassment.

He hasn't been back at least while I'm on duty, but I figured the best way to handle it was to pretend it never happened. Does that sound reasonable? Keep any chat very brief and light. I think he may have read far too much into daily shop chat.

All the same I'm now questioning myself over my customer handling, in 5 years this is the 1st time this has happened but I'm wondering if I need to take any lessons from it. If anyone does work in customer service/retail I'd be interested to read your take. I didn't tell any of my colleagues because it felt too weird, plus I didn't want to run the risk of teasing about something I'm embarrassed about.

I do feel embarrassed, I'm not entirely sure why, and confused. I didn't even tell my husband because he has a tendency to become jealous and I didn't want him worrying about this customer or reacting in that way. I'm also anxious in case he thinks I did something to lead this man on. I'm pretty sure I didn't, at least not knowingly.

At the same time I feel like this shouldn't be bothering me. Weird things like this probably happen all the time to everyone and I should probably shake this off easier than I have.
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Default Oct 27, 2021 at 12:17 PM
  #2
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I'm confused as to what made him think I would be.
It is a known problem that men can mistake friendliness for flirting.

For example:

When Men Mistake Friendliness for Flirting | by Tamara Mitrofanova | Fearless She Wrote | Sep, 2021 | Medium

There is a lot of discussion of this in the Google search:

guys mistake friendliness flirting

Quote:
I do feel embarrassed, I'm not entirely sure why
One idea is that embarrassment is likely to arise when a person faces a situation without a clear sense of the social expectations governing behavior...he or she does not know what to do next.

Embarrassment: A Form of Social Pain | American Scientist

I myself am confident that you handled things professionally/appropriately with that guy.
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Default Oct 27, 2021 at 02:03 PM
  #3
Agree with Bill. You handled it appropriately. If the guy ever brings it up you can say something like "sorry not interested. Am happily married."
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Default Oct 28, 2021 at 11:13 AM
  #4
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Originally Posted by Bill3 View Post
It is a known problem that men can mistake friendliness for flirting.

For example:

When Men Mistake Friendliness for Flirting | by Tamara Mitrofanova | Fearless She Wrote | Sep, 2021 | Medium

There is a lot of discussion of this in the Google search:

guys mistake friendliness flirting


One idea is that embarrassment is likely to arise when a person faces a situation without a clear sense of the social expectations governing behavior...he or she does not know what to do next.

Embarrassment: A Form of Social Pain | American Scientist

I myself am confident that you handled things professionally/appropriately with that guy.
Thank you for your reply, I found it very helpful. There's a lot of validation in that 1st medium article, I relate a lot to what she wrote. I am an agreeable sort of person, and in customer service roles its even more so, we can be scored by mystery shoppers on our friendliness. I've had to deal with some obnoxious customers and the onus is always on us to handle that gracefully. So that's where I'm coming from.

As the article says men tend to over estimate a woman's interest in them, that's something I maybe need to bear in mind. Thing is this man isn't young at all - he comes in with his grandchildren, I am middle aged - I guess I thought this wasn't something that happened in my or his age groups. But may be this is something ingrained long after fertility is a consideration. Honestly half my shock in this is I thought I was done with that part of life!

Yes the embarrassment thing I think is because I didn't know how to react. I wasn't mentally prepared. Maybe he's embarrassed too, it's possible he may avoid going in the store or at least when I'm working. I doubt he'll say anything but if he does I will explain my unavailability- I make myself sound like an out of stock product, but hope you know what I mean.
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Default Oct 28, 2021 at 01:40 PM
  #5
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Originally Posted by Discombobulated View Post
I've had to deal with some obnoxious customers and the onus is always on us to handle that gracefully. So that's where I'm coming from.
Was the guy you're talking about obnoxious?
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Default Oct 28, 2021 at 03:42 PM
  #6
I understand how you feel, I've been in similar situations. I once had a male customer introduce himself to me, ask my name and then inquire if I was married. I was like...what? I'm working. Who does this? Seriously, who does this? It was so uncomfortable and awkward.

I'm going with what was said, about kindness and friendliness being mistaken as a flirtation. It happens a lot. I doubt you intended to give anyone any kind of impression. Don't beat yourself up about it, he acted according to whatever he was thinking and feeling. I think you handled it well. I would honestly, go off and hide. I did tell my co-workers what happened so if the guy came in, I'd have them talk to him and I'd go someplace where I couldn't be seen. lol
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Default Oct 28, 2021 at 04:29 PM
  #7
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Originally Posted by BigBubba View Post
Was the guy you're talking about obnoxious?
Not at all. I doubt very much if he'll say anything further or be problematic at all.
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Default Nov 19, 2021 at 08:27 AM
  #8
This customer didn’t come into the store, at least while I was working, for over a month and I thought he might be avoiding coming in. But he came in this week twice while I was on shift. First time he went out of his way to speak to me, didn’t mention the number incident, but seemed keen to be conversational. I was pleasant back to him but kept working and didn’t give eye contact/full attention. I wondered if he felt awkward and was trying to revert to friendly customer talk.

Then he came in again next day, again he went out of his way to talk to me and said he wished that the bread rolls were available in smaller packs for single people. Now this is something customers say a lot, so nothing unusual but given the circumstances I felt he might have been trying to emphasise he was available- maybe I’m overthinking though. Anyhow I think I dealt with it okay, I advised he check the fresh bakery counter as they sell two packs of the fresh rolls, he went over and then came back to tell me he got them and thank me. All the way through this he uses my first name, we have to wear a name badge and honestly I wish we didn’t - the number of times creepy strange men like to use my name, not that this guy is necessarily creepy, or at least I don’t think so.

Anyhow, I kept my eyes on my job and deliberately engaged a nearby colleague in conversation as soon as politely possible. I’m a very non confrontational person, and also I don’t even want to say I’m married, because that’s my private life and my business. So my strategy is polite but non interested or interesting responses, and hopefully he’s going to get the message.
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Angry Nov 28, 2021 at 01:43 PM
  #9
I had a similar experience, albeit it took months before I realized this man had a romantic interest, apparently.

He was somebody I used to talk to a lot at my local senior center. Just general conversation, like you'd have with the receptionist at the doctor's office. Nothing personal; he never asked me anything personal and vice versa.

To me he was an intelligent, nice man to talk to. That's it. One human being to another, that's it. We also emailed and sent a few texts, mostly superficial until he wrote about his prostate problems. (Thankfully it wasn't face to face)

So for about 8 months we just talked. Then one day, via email, he kept asking me to take ballroom dancing lessons with him or to go to a dance. I said no thank you but wished him luck. He still asked a couple more times. He also asked me, via email, to go to this festival with him. Again I said no thank you and it's too hot anyway.

Sure he was nice to talk to, but I didn't want him putting his hands on me. Ballroom dancing requires just that, as well as getting close to him. No way. Touch me and I'll break his fingers, LOL.

Then he just stopped talking to me completely. "Cold turkey". Emails stopped and he didn't even acknowledge me when I ran into him. No hello, no good morning, nothing even like "I guess we're not on the same page". He'd look right at me yet not reply if I said hello.

Given his fragile ego, it seems I dodged a bullet there. It seems he's pissed I'm not interested in him, but I don't think I ever gave out those signals. He just interpreted it that way. I don't know why he beat around the bush for so long, if he was interested in romance all along. It would have saved both of us all that time, be it talking or emailing. I could have been talking to someone else. If he felt that sooner, I wish he had said something sooner rather than letting me think I had a new friend or acquaintance.

I see this is supposedly in their DNA or it's a biological reason as to why they think being friendly means being interested. Another thing that threw me was that he never asked me anything personal, so why would I think he was interested? He didn't ask what I like to do, what kind of food I like, etc. The kind of things men usually ask before asking you out.

In hindsight this seemed so juvenille. It's like high school all over again, but we're adults. Yet his behavior reminded me of guys in high school, storming off in a huff cause you don't want to go out with them. That happened to me too.

I was just looking to talk to another human being who was usually there when I was. Sadly he had other ideas, and when that didn't pan out, he dropped me like a hot potato. I can't think of any reason why he'd stop talking to me suddenly other than for that reason.


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Default Nov 28, 2021 at 02:04 PM
  #10
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Originally Posted by nonightowl View Post
I had a similar experience, albeit it took months before I realized this man had a romantic interest, apparently.

He was somebody I used to talk to a lot at my local senior center. Just general conversation, like you'd have with the receptionist at the doctor's office. Nothing personal; he never asked me anything personal and vice versa.

To me he was an intelligent, nice man to talk to. That's it. One human being to another, that's it. We also emailed and sent a few texts, mostly superficial until he wrote about his prostate problems. (Thankfully it wasn't face to face)

So for about 8 months we just talked. Then one day, via email, he kept asking me to take ballroom dancing lessons with him or to go to a dance. I said no thank you but wished him luck. He still asked a couple more times. He also asked me, via email, to go to this festival with him. Again I said no thank you and it's too hot anyway.

Sure he was nice to talk to, but I didn't want him putting his hands on me. Ballroom dancing requires just that, as well as getting close to him. No way. Touch me and I'll break his fingers, LOL.

Then he just stopped talking to me completely. "Cold turkey". Emails stopped and he didn't even acknowledge me when I ran into him. No hello, no good morning, nothing even like "I guess we're not on the same page". He'd look right at me yet not reply if I said hello.

Given his fragile ego, it seems I dodged a bullet there. It seems he's pissed I'm not interested in him, but I don't think I ever gave out those signals. He just interpreted it that way. I don't know why he beat around the bush for so long, if he was interested in romance all along. It would have saved both of us all that time, be it talking or emailing. I could have been talking to someone else. If he felt that sooner, I wish he had said something sooner rather than letting me think I had a new friend or acquaintance.

I see this is supposedly in their DNA or it's a biological reason as to why they think being friendly means being interested. Another thing that threw me was that he never asked me anything personal, so why would I think he was interested? He didn't ask what I like to do, what kind of food I like, etc. The kind of things men usually ask before asking you out.

In hindsight this seemed so juvenille. It's like high school all over again, but we're adults. Yet his behavior reminded me of guys in high school, storming off in a huff cause you don't want to go out with them. That happened to me too.

I was just looking to talk to another human being who was usually there when I was. Sadly he had other ideas, and when that didn't pan out, he dropped me like a hot potato. I can't think of any reason why he'd stop talking to me suddenly other than for that reason.

Interesting….

He likely felt uncomfortable after you declined his advances and it felt awkward and unnatural to keep casual chit chat if he developed some more intimate interest. If I asked a man out and he declined, I’d feel awkward to continue casual chats. Likely nothing to do with dropping you like a hot potato. If he never even asked you anything, it likely isn’t any deep kind of friendship that he had to continue

It’s possible that he didn’t have romantic interest at first but then wanted to try. It happens. You aren’t obligated to indulge him but he also isn’t obligated to go on with chit chats. It might not even be romantic. Some people love dancing and have no one to do it with.

On the other hand if you wanted to keep talking to him, why not approach him and ask to continue your friendship or directly ask him why is he not talking to you. He might not be a mind reader and might not know you want to continue talking to him even though you have no interest to ever gong anywhere with him. How was he supposed to know?
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Default Nov 28, 2021 at 02:42 PM
  #11
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Originally Posted by divine1966 View Post

On the other hand if you wanted to keep talking to him, why not approach him and ask to continue your friendship or directly ask him why is he not talking to you. He might not be a mind reader and might not know you want to continue talking to him even though you have no interest to ever gong anywhere with him. How was he supposed to know?
I posted this for support of OP mainly, to share my experience for her. This happened in 2016.

I no longer care. Superficial friendships are okay too, if it continued. No he's not obligated and neither am I. I'm not a mind reader either. How am I supposed to know? He just stopped talking to me, so I drew my own conclusions.

Not saying rejection is easy, but after all that I don't want to talk to a man acting like a teenager.

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Default Nov 28, 2021 at 02:54 PM
  #12
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Originally Posted by nonightowl View Post
ballroom dancing requires just that, as well as getting close to him. No way. Touch me and I'll break his fingers, LOL.
Brutal. I mean you're talking about dance (pretty innocent) and still I can sense the disgust. Is it true what they say that women treat guys they're not interested like they're nothing? Sorry for offtopic, but its related, and I'm curious.

Also, I think it could be the reason. Maybe somehow he sensed your disgust and checked out for his own good?
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Default Nov 28, 2021 at 03:26 PM
  #13
Hang on @BigBubba
You dont know what @nonightowl has been through. What if she has male associated trauma? What if she was abused in a previous relationship? You are assuming she was treating him with disgust- which is an assumpti0n. How is her declining an invitation treating him like he is nothing? She was interested in friendship. Signals got crossed. He obvi0usly had romantic interest in her and she didnt feel the same. Bravo to @nonightowl for maintaining your boundaries. I'd bet that took guts and its probably something you worked on for awhile.
And @BigBubba I hate to bring this up but it is assumptions like that-by men- that perpetuate the idea that something must be wrong with a woman to turn down a man's advances or attempts at romance. That there is something wrong with her for being confident in saying no and setting boundaries. You used the word disgust and whether or not that is true its not for you to say and she isnt required to explain herself. The man ghosted her and no one has anything to say about that?
How is saying no, no thank you, no thanks or even hell no treating him like he is nothing?

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Brutal. I mean you're talking about dance (pretty innocent) and still I can sense the disgust. Is it true what they say that women treat guys they're not interested like they're nothing? Sorry for offtopic, but its related, and I'm curious.

Also, I think it could be the reason. Maybe somehow he sensed your disgust and checked out for his own good?

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Trophy Nov 28, 2021 at 03:46 PM
  #14
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I posted this for support of OP mainly, to share my experience for her. This happened in 2016.

I no longer care. Superficial friendships are okay too, if it continued. No he's not obligated and neither am I. I'm not a mind reader either. How am I supposed to know? He just stopped talking to me, so I drew my own conclusions.

Not saying rejection is easy, but after all that I don't want to talk to a man acting like a teenager.
By him “not talking” to you do you mean you came up to him and starting talking and he stared at you and refused to respond? Or he walked away? Or you kept texting and emailing and he never answered? Maybe he could say the same that you stopped all communication after he asked you out. Did you want him to initiate?

I think the issue is ton of assumptions and unreasonable expectations and lack of communication. If you were ok with texting and emailing how was he supposed to know you aren’t ok with casual outing? Festivals (festivals don’t imply touching do they?) and possibly even ball room dancing invite isn’t a marriage proposal. It might this not even be anything romantic at all. Sounded as he was ok talking to but not ok hanging out with in person. How was he supposed to know you have trouble with dancing?

I think it’s all miscommunication but this dude made sound like a villain. Well maybe he is., but maybe he isn’t

Last edited by divine1966; Nov 28, 2021 at 04:00 PM..
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Default Nov 28, 2021 at 03:49 PM
  #15
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Hang on @BigBubba
You dont know what @nonightowl has been through. What if she has male associated trauma? What if she was abused in a previous relationship?
Okay, my bad. Still...

Declining in itself is fine. You can reject whoever you want. Its okay, BUT saying "If he tried to touch me (in dance), I'd break his fingers" seemed kinda like disgust. Imagine if I told you that if you try to shake my hand I'll smash you in the face. Shaking hand is just as innocent as dancing. I just don't get it, but again - maybe its an aftermath of some trauma of the poster we're not aware of.
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Default Nov 28, 2021 at 04:12 PM
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Okay, my bad. Still...

Declining in itself is fine. You can reject whoever you want. Its okay, BUT saying "If he tried to touch me (in dance), I'd break his fingers" seemed kinda like disgust. Imagine if I told you that if you try to shake my hand I'll smash you in the face. Shaking hand is just as innocent as dancing. I just don't get it, but again - maybe its an aftermath of some trauma of the poster we're not aware of.
Made me think that if a guy posted that a woman asked him out and he doesn’t like her that way and doesn’t want to be touched so “if she touched him, he’d punch her in the face or break her fingers”, people would be outraged.

But it’s ok to say that a man deserves his fingers broken and it’s not even about touching anyone against their will. Just a casual invite to a ball room dancing. Why is it ok for a woman to threaten a man with violence, even hypothetical.

The whole thing rubs me the wrong way.
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Default Nov 28, 2021 at 04:24 PM
  #17
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Made me think that if a guy posted that a woman asked him out and he doesn’t like her that way and doesn’t want to be touched so “if she touched him, he’d punch her in the face or break her fingers”, people would be outraged.

But it’s ok to say that a man deserves his fingers broken and it’s not even about touching anyone against their will. Just a casual invite to a ball room dancing. Why is it ok for a woman to threaten a man with violence, even hypothetical.

The whole thing rubs me the wrong way.
Thats my whole point.
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Smirk Nov 28, 2021 at 04:31 PM
  #18
"Breaking fingers" is my sometimes dark sense of humor. I don't have the strength to break anyone's fingers, including my own. And I'm not violent.

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Default Nov 28, 2021 at 06:12 PM
  #19
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"Breaking fingers" is my sometimes dark sense of humor. I don't have the strength to break anyone's fingers, including my own. And I'm not violent.
I get that you likely weren’t serious but if a guy posted that and then said “thats how he jokes and he doesn’t even have strength to break no ones fingers and he isn’t violent”, it still wouldn’t fly, people wouldn’t be laughing along. I feel it’s not fair. Stereotypically people perceive men as aggressors and women as victims. But the reality is that it could go both ways
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Default Nov 28, 2021 at 10:54 PM
  #20
Gender roles are likely at play here. We learn this systemically.

Males mistake social cues from women due to gender-based stereotypes. Women's kindness is assumed as flirting sometimes. Women's kind rejections or boundaries or even sarcastic comments are considered by men to be "rude," when they don't realize how much men have harassed women historically and systemically, so women have to be stern sometimes to get their point across. Still, women are "supposed to be nice," and in some cases seen as "submissive to men." This is gender-role stereotyping, which makes it challenging for men and women to get along when men make assumptions like that. Women and men can assert their boundaries and defend themselves, and both have the freedom to be aggressive when the situation warrants.

But studies in criminal justice reveal how women are punished more severely than men for the same type of aggression because of the gender-role stereotypes.

Additionally, when it comes to sexual attraction, it doesn't matter so much that the woman hasn't said much about herself because (unlike women who are sometimes stereotypically concerned with getting to know someone before being attracted to them) men stereotypically find attraction in a woman's body before anything else. It's hard to communicate boundaries when respect is blinded by gender-role stereotypes. Being straightforward is most appropriate, but that's not how we were socialized either, and again, women get attacked for being too loud, talkative, mean, etc. We're not. We're just asserting our boundaries.

Also, in domestic violence and intimate partner and stalking and sexual harassment cases, it is typical for either the man or the woman or the nonbinary person who has an insecure attachment to miss social cues like when a person isn't interested romantically. Just because a person isn't interested romantically doesn't mean that they can't just remain friends when it is safe to do so. On the other hand, sometimes we don't feel comfortable even being friends, and that's okay, too. Not everyone is a good fit for relationship of any kind with one another. It doesn't mean that anyone owes you something, nor does it mean that it's a negative reflection on who you are. Occasionally, we could all use some social skills to help us improve our relationships, but still, no one owes us anything, and we certainly don't owe anyone else anything. When insecure attachment rules our decision-making, that's where violence comes in the form of harassment, stalking, sexual assault, molestation, revenge, rape, verbal assaults and threats, holding someone hostage, forcing someone to engage in a relationship, cornering someone psychologically and/or physically, psychologically abusing someone, socially isolating someone so they don't have any social capital/capable guardianship to help them escape from a torturous relationship that is unhealthy and very insecure in nature - both on the part of the offender (feeling like someone owes them something) and the victim (feeling like there's something inherently wrong with themselves). When both parties are insecure, they feel they can't escape the relationship. When one party is insecure, it puts pressure on the secure party to fight back, which is stressful at times.

Those with CEN, childhood maltreatment histories, personality disorders, and paraphilic disorders often have insecure types of attachments.

Those who were socialized to the extremes with gender-role stereotypes (e.g., "women must remain silent and submissive and bow down to the man for the sake of being feminine and soft and lady-like" and "men must be strong, in control, manly, macho, masculine") will also fall into the category of insecure attachments because that has now become their value, belief systems, etc., which drives their loyalty to their value-based causes, tribes, groups, and relationships (e.g., being belonged and accepted in the group). It's harder for such people to escape such self-inflicted bigotry as well as other-inflicted bigotry when much hidden forms of child maltreatment comprise extremist (deviant) teachings, which has also been shown in some studies on deviant parents raising deviant children and thus those who will recidivate in the criminal justice system - both as offenders and victim-offenders. But the kind of child rearing they had experienced often goes ignored as forms of psychological abuse, emotional abuse, childhood emotional neglect, and overall childhood neglect; they are almost welcomed and accepted as forms of expression and parental rights, as opposed to the need for children's rights - much at the detriment of both the neglected and abused children who grow up to be victim-offenders, personality disordered, mentally ill, revictimized, criminalized, repeat victim-offenders, harmful to society, perpetuating of historical traumas, perpetuating of systemic traumas, perpetuating of institutional betrayal traumas, perpetuating of intergenerational traumas handed over and over again in each family and offspring, perpetuating of ritualistic traumas, perpetuating of threats against others' safety (including the overall public safety), perpetuating against the economic costs of recidivism and victimization, etc. But, we accept such consequences because of the systemic beliefs that genders should be rigidly defined and normed to fit into a feminine versus masculine stereotype. Sexual attraction for some has become a sport instead of something romantic or chosen, or even the reality that not all people will be able to find a mate or have sexual attraction at all (such as those who are asexual and/or disabled and/or religiously celibate and/or medically celibate).

Whatever the case may be, this conversation has much to do with stereotypes, gender-norming, gender-based bigotry, sexism, and more.
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