[Oldguy51]

Hi everyone. Wasn’t sure where to post. There many pieces to this puzzle.

Not even sure where to start or how to present the picture but I’ll try.

First piece of the puzzle is “Jeff” my brother in law (BIL). Jeff has been enabled his entire life by supposedly both parents (they blamed one another for the enabling)
Consequently Jeff is now a 40,year old man living for free in his moms basement. Jeff is un/under employed and spends much of his day drinking beer, smoking pot, snorting cocaine, playing video games, and sleeping.

He has no friends, no girlfriends, doesn’t participate in any family functions (birthdays, holidays, etc). He literally lives in the basement and will not come and say hi if people are visiting mom and dad. He will come up to fetch his dinner plate, shower, and pee/poop.

He does not do anything around the house (shovel, help mom with a flat tire, etc).

He has an obsession with fire arms and any occupation that requires the use of fire arms. He does not target shoot, or hunt. He wears “tactical” clothing and can tell you what weapons every branch of the military uses.

Jeff is very disrespectful to his parents and others. He has borrowed hundreds of dollars from my daughter only to not pay her back (he seems to have money for beer, pot, cocaine, cigarettes, etc).

He does not like to be told what to do and does not like to be controlled.

At this point it’s really none of my business. Not my kid, not my house. Stiffing my daughter out of money is concerning to me, but she is an adult and decided to “loan” him money. I do not have a high opinion of him.

I’m not sure if it’s just the enabling that has created “Jeff”. In my unprofessional opinion he has an undiagnosed mental illness, and possibly some kind of “spectrum” thing going on (no disrespect meant wasn’t sure how to word).

That’s part 1 of the puzzle.

Now let me introduce the family cabin. This is where I first met Jeff.

Cabins are a pain in the ***. They are money pits, and require a lot of work. This particular cabin is even more work. It’s remote and semi boat access only. In addition to the 2 hour drive to get there, you drop off Al your stuff, then park your car. Then you drag your stuff down a path about 300 feet onto a dock. Then you get your boat load it up and boat to the cabin. Then it’s another 200 feet slightly up hill with your stuff.

Simply getting to your cabin requires 1 hour coming and one hour going just to get there. If the cabin requires any kind of work or maintenance it’s even more of a battle.

To sustain such a cabin you either have to have deep pockets, or a huge family to do the work. It’s like a legal human ponzu scheme. Mom and dad get older, kids assume responsibility while mom and dad take it easy. When we get older our children take over.

I don’t get. I’d rather rent a cabin personally. But hey I’d just met my wife, and she grew up there. Emotionally attached to the place, etc.

It’s evident the place is in shambles. In laws don’t have deep pockets (they went into serious debt to buy the place of dads sisters) and there is no support from the children or Gand children (other than my wife and daughter, and me).

I clue in quickly and like any normal person I offer to help dad fix the place up.

The cabin isn’t really a cabin. It’s a drop in center mainly for Jeff, and the grandsons.

Grandsons are sometimes there, but Jeff is always there from may till October. Jeff will show up to drink beer, smoke pot, snort cocain, eat, sleep/pass out , pee, and poop. Sometimes he goes fishing.

In addition we are bringing out food for Jeff, cooking for Jeff, and doing his dishes. He stays up till 3am running the generator (he likes to watch movies when high). When asked to turn generator off we are told to go @#$t ourselves.

Anyway after 5 years of tolerating him (I wanted to stop coming to the cabin but I promised dad I’d help and I keep my word) at the end of the 2018 season mom and dad were told that I was not coming back to the cabin. Ever.

They were also told why. Jeff. I exaplianed that I did not appreciate his behavior, attitude, and lack of work ethic. My only option was to simply bow out.

I’m not the only one. All the other family members stopped coming to the cabin. One sibling even bought their own cabin, and told mom and dad to not include them in any cabin succession planning.

2019 was awesome. I had the best cabin year ever, by not going to the cabin. Life was good. It was about to get bad.

At the end of the cabin season in 2019. We noticed dad was losing a lot of weight. Turns out he had cancer. Diagnosed November 2019. He made it till Jan 2020.

Now it gets interesting. Jeff’s behavior gets worse. He didn’t visit his dad in the hospital. Didn’t drive mom to the hospital. He’s refusing to come to the service because they won’t allow the dog to come. He’s still not shoveling, we’re getting phone calls from mom in the morning because her car won’t start and he won’t get out of bed to help.

Shortly after dads death mom tells us that dad was the enabler. It’s time, she’d had enough. She want to retire and is tired of supporting a capable,adult child.
She also informs us that he is emotionally abusing her, and verbally abusing her. She says she’s terrified of him and does not like going to the cabin with him.

She wants to have an intervention with my wife and I and “bring the hammer down”.

Shortly after this mom asks us if we’d like to buy 1/2 of the family cabin. After dads death, and after the financial dust settled turns out things are a bit tight. Not settings but selling us half the cabin will make a huge difference.

Mom initially floated the idea of selling shares of the cabin to everyone who comes out to the cabin. The only problem is that no one has any money. The other sister has a very rare disability that prevents her from working, but allows for Mexican vacations that include climbing 1000’s of mean steps.

Everyone can afford beer and cigarettes but sorry mom. We can t afford the cabin.

We were expecting this and the 3 of us (wife and daughter) are willing to purchase the cabin with the following conditions:

1. We want 100% full ownership of the cabin
2. We expect 100% involvement from all family (all hands on deck).

The days of attendeding the cabin to simpl drink beer, smoke pot, snort cocaine, eat, sleep, poop, and pee are over.

The amount of work required is directly proportionate to the amount of usage. This is pretty typical cabin 101.

Mom is agreeable to our terms and we proceed. There are ruffled feathers but over all everyone is on board. Everyone except baby Jeff.

Baby Jeff is furious that we are “stealing his @%#^ing cabin”. It’s not fair, it’s not right he wants 1% of the cabin. He doesn’t have 2k. And I offer him 1% for free if he’s willing to,accept coming out for 4 days total. He hits the roof.

Anyway wife and I are there all summer. (Cabin collapsed off the foundation). We work ourselves to the bone. Mom is helping where she can. The nephews help too. All hands on deck.

Baby Jeff does not help. In fact he doesn’t even show up I a first in 40 years). He’s not helping because he’s mad we’re stealing his cabin and he feels that because he doesn’t own it he doesn’t have to do any work. (It’s your cabin so I’m not helping).

As we close up the cabin for the season baby Jeff shows up with a case of beer, bag of weed, package of wieners, cigarettes, etc. and is expecting to use the cabin over the winter. I tell him nope. You didn’t earn it and we will try again next year.

(Part of my contribution with helping mom deal with baby Jeff is I’m designated bad guy. I’m the enforcer and will bring the hammer down on baby Jeff).

Baby Jeff “peacocks” me and threatens me. “You better $&%^ing watch it!”

He tells me that we haven’t signed any paperwork yet so mom still owns the cabin and I can’t tell him what to do. “I’ll swing this by mommie and se shat she say”

Mom is upset now as baby Jeff is phoning her from the cabin yelling at her and screaming at her.

We swing by her house and set up a meeting next week to sign the paperwork so I can legally bring the hammer down on baby Jeff.

Mom comes over next week but instead of signing papers she launches into a mild attack on me.

She brings up all my concerns about baby Jeff and counters them with things I’ve done in the past, and how dare I say bad things about baby Jeff.

We don’t want him having guns at the cabin. He gets wasted and fires them in the back yard, and out of the boat. We are concerned he will shoot himself, and possibly others, exposing us to a lawsuit (never mind the fact how we’d live with ourselves if he shot someone’s kids).

We want him to stop flying his drone and spying on 15 year girls sun tanning (not illegal but just wrong).

We want him to stop playing loud music, arguing with cabin neighbors, and he has to stop feeding the wild life.

Mom is concerned that I’m picking on baby Jeff and being unreasonable.

She wants to renegotiate and sell us 90% of the cabin. She will keep 10% and baby Jeff will get it when she dies.

I offer to buy 100% and if and when baby Jeff grows up I will sell him 10%. Heck I’ll sell him 100% of the cabin. I don’t even want them damn place. Remember I stopped coming out.

I then suggest she give my wife 10% right now and sell baby Jeff the 90%. “Don’t be stupid he has no money”

The irony is that mom herself doesn’t want to own a cabin with baby Jeff. What makes her think I want to own a cabin with him?

Mom then tells us that Jeff told her that if he doesn’t get his 10% that he’d rather sell it to an outsider and no one gets the cabin.

I tell mom that we are still not interested in owning a cabin with baby Jeff.

Mom then says “we’ll I guess I’ll hang on to it, but if I have to sell, I have to sell……”

I take this as a thinly veiled threat. Thanks mom. Your welcome for all the work I’ve done,to your cabin while baby Jeff drank beer, smoked pot, snorted cocain, slept, ticked off the neighbors, etc.

The only reason she has a cabin and the only reason it’s worth what it is is because of me. I’ve done more work at the cabin than all of her children and grandchildren combined.

I calmly tell her that I am disappointed she changed the terms on us and that I wished she’d done so earlier because now I’ve wasted yet another summer at the cabin working myself crazy. I inform her that I will clean out all my stuff.

** remember I stopped coming out in 2019. The ONLY reason I came back out was to assume responsibility of the cabin now that the succession isn’t happening I don’t want to come out because of baby Jeff’s behavior **

Mom then loses it. She calls me a bully, and a manipulator. She says I’m stomping my feet like a little boy.

She says I’m being too hard on baby Jeff and I’m unreasonable because I don’t want to own a cabin with him and I’m selfish. “Other people co own cabins so what’s the problem?” (Uhh most people work and contribute).

I explain that Jeff is the way he is because everything is given to him.

She then accuses me of taking advantage of a grieving widow to get what I want.

My wife is in tears at this point. Daughter is in complete,shock as mom has launched an all out savage attack. Theses are words that can’t be taken back.

I understand she’s being abused and still grieving so I’m willing to cut her some slack, but this is where you all come in.

What do I do?

I understand mom is a mom and Jeff is her baby. I get that. What I don’t get is that she wants it to stop. She approached us with a financial problem and also abuse problems. All the tough talk , etc.

We had a plan. I stuck to the plan and did exactly what I said I’d do.

I have not spoken to mom or baby Jeff in a year and a half.

On a personal level I’m ok if I never talk to them ever again.

But….. here are my issues:

1. My wife is upset. Family is important to her as is the cabin. I’ve offered to buy or rent another cabin. Trace, rent an rv, plane tickets, you name it and I’ll do it. Just not that cabin. I hate it. I have bad memories.

I’m willing to mend fences with her mom but only for wife’s benefit.

2. Mom did reach out to me and said she’s being abused. She reached out for help. If mom were my employees I’d be legally required to act. If she’s still being abused and wants help I’d like to do so.

But it seems that she’s asked for help, only to kick me in the face. She has not reached out to me and apologized. This is confusing as I’ve always had a good relationship with her. So I don’t know if she really feels the way she does about me? Is she embarrassed about her behavior?

I can’t even reach out to her because : wife doesn’t want me to until I get an apology, and she accused me of being a bully so I don’t want to come across as a bully.

She’s enabled her,son and now he’s grown up to be an abusive bully.

And at the end of the day as much as I can’t stand baby. Jeff, he is my wife’s brother and I want him to succeed. His path is not a good one.

So what say yee?

Do I just avoid them forever? Do I try talking to mom?

I can’t help people that don’t want help but abused people sometimes can’t get help? That’s a symptom right?

Wife has had limited contact with mom.

Wife is in the middles and doesn’t like confrontation.

If I were to flip this around and it was my parents that treated my wife the way I was treated, my parents would be given 1 week to come and apologize.

No apologies would result in a visit from me and an honest conversation if they didn’t a;pollgize then we are done. My wife is my number one and no one will disrespect her in such a manner.

And just like that I’d have no contact from my parents except for their funeral (if there was nothing on Netflix).

I’m the nicest guy and will do anything for you. But turn your back on and screw me over and we’re done. Life’s to short.

Ultimately I’d like to patch things up with mom (assuming her actions are due to abuse). For all I know she just viewed me as a bank and tried to lever the emotional attachment of the cabin to get what SHE wanted.

She basically wanted us to continue enabling baby Jeff when she dies and provide a cabin for him so he can continue to drink beer, smoke pot, snort cocaine, eat/pass out, sleep and poop, and pee.

I can’t believe she even shows her face at the cabin. Absolutely everyone out there hates baby Jeff. They’ve all had altercations with him.

Moms nickname behind her back is “mommie Martha” because she “Jeff’s mommie”.

She should be ashamed of her son and also ashamed of herself for raising such a poor example of a so.n.

Thoughts?

[Yaowen]

Sounds like an awful situation. My heart goes out to you. Wish I had some knowledge or experience to share that would be helpful to you, but sadly I don't. I think you are being abused by the situation. You do all the right things and then get dumped on. Hopefully others here with more insight will see your post today and respond to it with helpful ideas. You deserve a break!

[Bill3]

I'm very sorry that you have been dealing with these problems, and for so long.

Has any consideration been given to involving a family therapist?

If your wife is unhappy with things as they have now stood for 18 months, what does she propose to do differently?

Unless she has ideas that she is willing to commit to and fight for (no copping out by saying she doesn't like conflict), it sounds like there isn't scope for progress at the moment:

--Your wife wants her mom to apologize to you before you do anything further, and her mom does not seem inclined to do that.

--It appears that your brother-in-law's life will continue as it is, since his mom seemingly is unable to give him any reason or push to live differently.

--Mom reneged on one deal already, how could you trust her in another one?

And I offer him 1% for free if he’s willing to,accept coming out for 4 days total.

She wants to renegotiate and sell us 90% of the cabin. She will keep 10% and baby Jeff will get it when she dies.

As you already know, it would be most unwise to get into any kind of legal arrangement/entanglement/shared ownership with Jeff.

[Rive.]

So much for mom saying it was her husband who was enabling Jeff. It seems everyone is enabling Jeff...

You didn't want the cabin in the first place and you *know* how things will go down if Jeff is involved. It is the same pattern, as you came to realise after mom did a turnabout. Nothing will change if the same players keep engaging in the same moves. THEY won't change (mom, Jeff) so this means YOU will have to do something different.

The best (not saying it is necessarily easy) move would be to walk away.

[Oldguy51]

Originally Posted by Bill3

I'm very sorry that you have been dealing with these problems, and for so long.

Has any consideration been given to involving a family therapist?

If your wife is unhappy with things as they have now stood for 18 months, what does she propose to do differently?

Unless she has ideas that she is willing to commit to and fight for (no copping out by saying she doesn't like conflict), it sounds like there isn't scope for progress at the moment:

--Your wife wants her mom to apologize to you before you do anything further, and her mom does not seem inclined to do that.

--It appears that your brother-in-law's life will continue as it is, since his mom seemingly is unable to give him any reason or push to live differently.

--Mom reneged on one deal already, how could you trust her in another one?


As you already know, it would be most unwise to get into any kind of legal arrangement/entanglement/shared ownership with Jeff.

I would never own a huge asset with anyone, never mind someone like Jeff. Never. I offered it to him to prove a point, and insist on him only coming out 3 days a year.

What’s crazy is he expects the cabin for free, will come out 100% of the time, and do 0% of the work. No way.

[Oldguy51]

Originally Posted by Rive.

So much for mom saying it was her husband who was enabling Jeff. It seems everyone is enabling Jeff...

You didn't want the cabin in the first place and you *know* how things will go down if Jeff is involved. It is the same pattern, as you came to realise after mom did a turnabout. Nothing will change if the same players keep engaging in the same moves. THEY won't change (mom, Jeff) so this means YOU will have to do something different.

The best (not saying it is necessarily easy) move would be to walk away.

I’m disappointed that she basically threw dad under the bus and in the need, it’s her that is the enabler.

I’m fine with walking away. Believe me. I’m doing this only because my wife is upset.

As far as I’m concerned they are both dead to me. Mom will regret her decision , if she hasn’t a;ready.

The rest of the family doesn’t talk to us anymore because we are the bad people who tried to steal the family cabin when all we did was step up to the plate to help mom. They are crazy

[Oldguy51]

I’ll add I’ve been to a therapist. It was more of a collection about me and what happened. Not much “solution”.

There’s no way mom will see a therapist. She’s not the problem. I am because I’m being unreasonable not wanting to do own a cabin with baby Jeff.

It’s almost like a bad dream. I should have simply stopped going to the cabin 10,years ago.

[Rive.]

I hear that it is painful and causing a lot of heartache (you, your wife) despite you trying to help mom so many times. It is very unfortunate that mom is blind with regards to her son. But yes, sometimes the least painful thing to do is to disengage.

There is only so much one can do for another (i.e. mom playing helpless so you will help her and even Jeff is benefitting from that help) at the detriment of ourselves..

[Molinit]

There is no "solution" to this. And this is really your wife's problem now. If she wants a relationship with her family (and if you want one), you'll have to accept the family dysfunction as is.

Since that seems unacceptable to you, I would advise you to limit any contact severely or eliminate it. No more cabin talk. No more "helping" with the cabin. No buying outright or partially of the cabin. The cabin is out of the question. Assume that your BIL will get it when MIL dies. It will fall into disrepair and that's that.

What I read in your post is you are actually looking for a way to change THEM, but as you know this isn't going to happen. Move on with your own family life and stop giving those people space in your head.

[Oldguy51]

Originally Posted by Molinit

There is no "solution" to this. And this is really your wife's problem now. If she wants a relationship with her family (and if you want one), you'll have to accept the family dysfunction as is.

Since that seems unacceptable to you, I would advise you to limit any contact severely or eliminate it. No more cabin talk. No more "helping" with the cabin. No buying outright or partially of the cabin. The cabin is out of the question. Assume that your BIL will get it when MIL dies. It will fall into disrepair and that's that.

What I read in your post is you are actually looking for a way to change THEM, but as you know this isn't going to happen. Move on with your own family life and stop giving those people space in your head.

The cabin is a done deal. I cleared out my stuff the next day. I will never go back. Even if mil leaves it to my wife and her brother I will never go back. I can’t stand the guy.

Possible trigger:

With any luck and karma, he will have inherited the cancer gene that took his dads life.

Couldn’t care about mom either. Fool me once…… with the following caveat:

She did reach out for help and I’d like to give her one last lifeline as her behavior was completly out of character (or was it?) there’s also the possibility of early dementia (it’s in the family)

Not sure how I came across as wanting to change them? I know I won’t. He won’t change. He’s a lost cause. Especially at 40.

Was just shocked as mom was all “time to bring the hammer down” and initiated the plan. I stuck to the plan and did exactly what we all agreed on.

I got played for a fool

[Oldguy51]

Originally Posted by Rive.

I hear that it is painful and causing a lot of heartache (you, your wife) despite you trying to help mom so many times. It is very unfortunate that mom is blind with regards to her son. But yes, sometimes the least painful thing to do is to disengage.

There is only so much one can do for another (i.e. mom playing helpless so you will help her and even Jeff is benefitting from that help) at the detriment of ourselves..

I,never,thought,about this in the context of mom being a drama queen and thriving on it.

I took her seriously and at face value. Even throwing her deceased husband under the bus for the enabling.

And to be clear it doesn’t bother me at all. Mom and bil could die and I wouldn’t shed a tear.

My wife is upset and I’m willing to make some concessions to get her to a happy place.

But no More cabin and no more favors for mom on my part. I don’t want to enable baby Jeff.

[Molinit]

Originally Posted by Oldguy51

The cabin is a done deal. I cleared out my stuff the next day. I will never go back. Even if mil leaves it to my wife and her brother I will never go back. I can’t stand the guy.

Possible trigger:

With any luck and karma, he will have inherited the cancer gene that took his dads life.

Couldn’t care about mom either. Fool me once…… with the following caveat:

She did reach out for help and I’d like to give her one last lifeline as her behavior was completly out of character (or was it?) there’s also the possibility of early dementia (it’s in the family)

Not sure how I came across as wanting to change them? I know I won’t. He won’t change. He’s a lost cause. Especially at 40.

Was just shocked as mom was all “time to bring the hammer down” and initiated the plan. I stuck to the plan and did exactly what we all agreed on.

I got played for a fool

What I bolded above--careful what you wish for because often it comes back on you. At the least, it's unbecoming and speaks to how much anger you're harboring against these people.

If you're done, you're done. I guess I'm not understanding that level of anger if you've already taken your ball and gone home, so to speak. Should be a non-issue for you at this point. Obviously it's still a big issue for you because you are continually referring to him as "baby Jeff." Kind of like a jealous sibling.

[FooZe]

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