Losing compassion

I think this interaction right after counseling sums up something about our dynamic:

Him: I’m sorry I wasn’t there for you how you needed after you came out of the hospital.
Me: thank you for that. You asked me how I was, but then made it about you. (I prob didn’t need to say this, but it was the last thing I wanted to say and hadn’t).
Him: that’s just your opinion
Me: at some point my opinion/how I feel will need to matter to you
Him: you’re saying I don’t care how you feel, and that’s wrong
Me: I’m saying when I tell you my perception, feelings, and all you say is it’s my opinion, it kinda speaks for itself (he has said this opinion thing to me before)
Him: silence and goes outside to smoke

It’s progress I think? Especially since he did apologize, which is a big deal for him

To me, "that's just your opinion" is completely invalidating of your feelings.

Yes, it is invalidating to me. He’s said it often when I express something. I believe he wants to control what I think of his behavior rather than caring about how his behavior and reactions affect me. And It’s easier and safer for him to be dismissive of me and hope I’ll drop any issue.

Yes, him apologising is great. Sounds like the counselling session helped with that. As for the rest of the convo, what I would try instead is, just appreciate him having apologised, express that appreciation (which you already did), and give him something concrete that he can do to be able to be there for you in a better way in future.

As a summary, what I think is: If most of your convos are like that, then no wonder that it won't lead anywhere, as he won't be able to magically become emotionally mature and emotionally giving to you and take care of your - otherwise understandable - resentment while also trying to deal with the addiction, the new job, and all expectations at once.

Yes it was dismissive of your thoughts, though to me it does not seem like he wanted to force you into thinking something else specifically.

Overall, to me it came off as, when he's not overburdened, he cares about how he affects you but he needs to focus on concrete actions, problem solving to be able to do it in practice.

Side note- I think counselor feedback introduced the idea of him “being there for me” so he apologized in that way. He said during session that he could/should have just rubbed my feet or something when he was “worried” about me. (instead of questioning me thoughtlessly and then telling me I’m not doing enough for no reason, and then saying I blame him for how I feel and I should learn to be responsible for myself).

And I see that I wanted him to apologize for trashing on me when he thought I was down, instead of him apologizing that he didn’t rub my feet. Im at the point where I just don’t want him disrespecting me and I expect little else. I think I’m happier when he is ignoring me :-( because the risk of his negative attention.

I’m moving on from it now, but I was annoyed that he was in my opinion lying to the counselor about his motives and I had to call him out in front of her taking guts to do so, and then he eventually came more clean to her about how he treated me, but really doesn’t take ownership of it. For whatever reason I don’t know.

He told me yesterday that he had almost reached out to his abuser to have a kindly conversation. I was shocked because it is very out of the blue, and asked him if it was because of the book he is reading influencing him. He said yes, but that he stopped himself eventually from reaching out. I told him I was glad he didn’t do that, and it could be like self harm and very triggering/dangerous for his mental health. He agreed and then wrote himself a note that not contacting that person is a rule.

So this helped me realize how unstable he is still, and it makes more sense how he acts so off to me since it seems his mind is all over the place trying to understand and implement these tools that he is getting. Although the book he found on his own perhaps and not something he received from doctors.

Hm yes that makes complete sense to me about what you said about him trying to understand feelings but ending up in the wrong place about it all. So yes, I would agree it sounds like his mind is all over the place trying to implement all these tools to understand you better plus the addiction plus the new job.

On top of all that, I would think for him it would take a lot of emotional understanding and giving to be able to take ownership for how he hurt you when he was being insensitive, pushy and invalidating your feelings when he should've supported you in the first place and not treat you like an object to fix. Even if his intentions were originally good.

So both these are good examples for how he's being all over the place with trying to use the new tools. Both the thing about his idea about the abuser, and the thing with trying to support you but failing at it and doing the opposite instead.

And I worry because he isn’t doing anything yet about his addiction, and he hasn’t even started the new job. He hasn’t started trauma therapy or addiction counseling. So things will probably get harder from here. I wouldn’t say he was or is trying to use his tools to understand me. He was using tools to be superior over me, etc which is why I was not receptive whatsoever. Or best case scenario, he thought I was feeling something he thinks I shouldn’t have been and thought it was his duty to change that.

He told me he was going to call his brother because he wanted to share his progress and wanted to let his brother know that he “found a way to protect them.”
I cautioned him a bit saying maybe he’s triggered and to maybe slow down a bit and be careful, and also pointed out how he said he was protecting him and his brother (part of his trauma thinking) and that it’s not his job to protect his brother. (His brother is fine and the trauma happened over 30 years ago).
He said “I don’t value you” and made a twiddly gesture with his fingers, like maybe to mimic someone talking? I said I know you don’t value me, and remade the twiddly gesture.

He said weird stuff to our kid today, she told me. Made no sense what he was saying to her. Giving her weird advice and projecting weird thoughts onto others, really off base. When she and I went to a concert the other night, he kept giving weird cautions about people at concerts and what people are like at concerts. Of course nothing what he said turned out to be true whatsoever.

I just now saw the checking account is overdrawn, and we don’t have much in savings. I came out to the computer to get a better look because I was very surprised it was overdrawn. I said our account is overdrawn! And he was like oh big deal, that’s how money works, money comes and money goes. I was like oh really? Im working hard for it thank you very much. And he asked to me repeat that a few times like he couldn’t hear me. And he said that I’ve only been working for four years. I said it’s not about that it’s that we have to manage our money and watch how much is in the account. He’s like well good thing you looked all you have to do is transfer money from savings. (I didn’t want to touch savings and there is no reason we should have had to. I just cashed out 65 vacation hours I didn’t use last year so we even had extra. I swear I spent like $190 of that on extras, and half of that was for a medical device I need, the other half the concert). He says don’t let it ruin your night, don’t catastrophize money. I said I’m not, I’m just speaking about money realistically. He says he was free to spend money basically because he starts working on Monday. I said yeah you haven’t started yet.

I’m so tired of sharing a bank account with him.

I see him having a great time doing his own thing it seems, and mostly all or all of our interactions are poor.

Our child wants me to divorce him. She told me that a few days ago, and she reiterated it tonight. She said he is emotionally and verbally abusive to me. And that she feels like downstairs is a minefield around him. :-( she said she feels like she can’t tolerate these conditions any longer. She feels guilty about it in a way because it’s her dad, but her counselor told her she has no reason to feel guilty.
I made it clear to my daughter that I want to provide her a safe home that she can thrive in. Also that if we separate or divorce it’s not because she’s said this because that is not something that needs to be on her. But that allowing her a life to be a teen doing regular teen stuff is what I want her to have. She started crying a bit, I think because she probably hasn’t felt normal at all for what all has been happening.

He wouldn’t see it coming.

I have a hard time knowing that my husband has an illness, and that contributes to his behavior, but at the same time, he doesn’t not seem to care how it effects me. He tells me this again and again. He just wants me to accept anything.

At this point, only he is benefiting from staying together. He has most everything he wants and he says he has no complaints about the relationship.

I am trying to digest all this.

Your amazing in the way you described this If I did not know better I would think your describing me as I also have Bipolar.I spend all my time working at undoing damage caused when in mania episodes.i always remind myself my wife and family suffer this illness along with me. I get frustrated because an episode can cause great damage in a short time that people become resentful. I set up calendars that show when I'm outside my norm. My family is fully educated when not to take things to heart. I work extra hard trying to undo any damage I caused when outside these episodes. My therapist is trained in both Bipolar and marriage therapy. She has really made a big impact in explaining to others what I experience. It helps heal and put things in the past. I feel so sorry for my wife that she must withstand these behaviors.

Wow - your daughter tells you that you should divorce him, that he is abusive and that she cannot take anymore. Your daughter has told you point blank what is happening and how it's effecting her. If it were me, I would listen to my daughter, and make an exit plan ASAP.

You can love someone, but have limits around how they treat you.

This guy is a mess, he needs a lot of help and in my opinion, you don't need to drag yourself and your daughter through that anymore.

I agree with the poster who had said you've lost yourself.... I mean that in the kindest and most compassionate way, but maybe it's time to think of your own needs, your daughter's needs and take far better care of yourself - you deserve to be treated with respect and loving kindness at all times. And this relationship does not provide that for you.

Yes her telling me this is huge and I think I have an obligation to change the living situation ASAP. My mind is very busy trying to think of the best way, and busy reforming my thinking.

I’m remembering how before we had our daughter, I was fed up with our life and told him I was going a different direction, and he could continue going the way things were, or follow me in a healthy direction. He chose to follow me, and things became more functional and enjoyable. Here I am at another crossroad.

I have lost myself, or probably more accurately I never had myself in the first place. There’s the core me that remains unchanged from outside influences, but the relationship me has never been healthy.

He says he is happy. He says he is doing great and he told me his iop exit counselor says he is doing great. He thinks he can change his bad memories that he thinks about every day into better memories. He’s adding his true self and the abusers true self into the memories to change them. he’s embracing that he has no bad parts and finding compassion for the abuser who also would have no bad parts based on this treatment view. I guess he is trying to jump to radical acceptance before he’s done trauma counseling?

How does he think he is happy? I guess because he’s not currently fitting inpatient criteria and he landed a job and he feels excited about having “no bad parts” and a true self that is healthy. To me he seems triggered and is obviously living in the past right now. I don’t think he is grounded at all based on seeing him smoke constantly looking very doped from that, and his acquiring more and more materials for his projects (piling them up in the garage), and gobbling up oodles of carbs, saying bizarre stuff, and is irritable whenever he doesn’t like what you say or do.

I do feel responsible for him since he doesn’t seem well enough to take care of himself and he is lacking awareness. Yes I need to take good care of myself too, and my child, which means at minimum not letting him dictate how the house is run if he’s in it. I have to figure out how to make things better. I guess if I tell him I want to separate, he would probably go inpatient immediately (or worse), and I really can’t see him starting a job in a few days with that on his mind. So I guess for the big picture, I should not talk to him about separating until things are more stable. Maybe things won’t get more stable though.
I hate this. This is awful, so sad, so scary, so familiar, so unfamiliar:-(((

Progress? I don't see his apology as progress at all. Progress means changed behaviour. He shows no inclination of doing so whatsoever.

I am sorry but mental illness does not mean one gets a free pass. There is accountability which, again, he is not taking.

I don't understand why you are still prioritising him and/or making excuses (i.e. his mental illness, his apology, his 'progress') when your daughter is telling you explicitly how she is feeling about this dynamic. She is already suffering. All that this 'teaching' her is that being with an abusive partner is okay. It is not!

Damn! Pardon me, but I wasn't aware of this. I thought he already started working on all that, including the new job. That completely changes my evaluation of the situation. I seriously suggest that you steel yourself and drop the hope that this could be going in a good direction soon and fast enough. It will not. Unfortunately. It's a sad truth.

Yeah, it doesn't really get better than that "best case" scenario.

All this sounds like his bipolar medications are not working. He needs to go back to the psychiatrist ASAP to get his medications set up properly. His mood is absolutely not stabilised properly.

He again sounds like his mood is going too high. Get that medication fixed up.

Can you setup your own bank account and transfer all your money into it?

I would do this ASAP.



Well, mania can feel great to the person with bipolar. But he needs to get it under control.

Can someone help counsel you for the next steps for changing this situation? Sounds like it is very hard to deal with all this alone, a very big burden.


That's a red flag, I agree with the posts that said you lost yourself in this relationship.

I wish you much luck with getting out of this terrible situation.

I read this post as being mainly about him. You've made your entire world and life revolve around him., He is running your life. You're not running your own life - it's all about him, his needs, his behaviors, his problems. Where are you in all of this?

And, you are not responsible for his life - he is. It is not your job to make sure he is alive and well - he is an adult, and that's HIS responsibility.

I made my ex fiance homeless - I had to kick him out of the home because of the way he was abusing and mistreating me, on top of his bad alcoholism. He threatened suicide all the time - now, if I had made myself responsible for him, he would have ruined my life. And I wasn't going to allow that.

This guy of yours? He is ruining you and your daughter. You cannot worry about him anymore - you have to save yourselves.

You seem completely wrapped up in all his problems that there is no YOU anymore. Your own needs, opinions, feelings and person are just gone - you have neglected yourself to such a degree that you don't talk about how this is effecting you anymore because it's all about him.

Please leave him. Your daughter is basically pleading with you. To stay with him at this point it totally non sensical.

It’s difficult all around. I understand that to some degree the symptoms are not controllable, otherwise why would damage be done AND so much effort given to fix it.

I feel like I’m almost an expert at living this way since my dad was also bipolar, and now my husband. Although lately they’re saying he doesn’t have bipolar but rather cptsd and depression.

You work hard to fix things, and I’m sure that helps a great deal!

Progress meaning he apologized, and I took the opportunity to say my opinion needs to matter to him. But yeah, i realize now that is not progress, that is nothing. He doesn’t take accountability, true. He usually thinks other people have a problem, not him.

My daughter is suffering. She knows it’s not okay to be with someone abusive, rather it’s been trying to live with someone with a serious mental illness. She is the smart one knowing that it’s no excuse to mistreat someone and she wants away from it.

I think you are blurring the lines between behavior that is caused by mental illness, and behavior that is abusive. Abusive behavior is typically a deliberate means of wearing down the other's sense of self, self-esteem and self worth through repeated acts of disrespect, disregard, dismissiveness and put downs. Mental illness does not cause such behavior. Abusive traits do. And your partner has abusive traits. If he is not bi-polar and has cptsd and depression, that will certainly not reflect itself or manifest as abusive behaviors. Nor will bi-polar. Abuse is abuse. Abusers disregard, deflect and disrespect, and they are not held accountable. And your partner is abusive.

Thank you, this helps. I struggle identifying that line. He does have abusive traits, no doubt. He also has irritability, thinking errors, can be extremely stubborn, dominating, impulsive, addictive, obsessive, self destructive, moody. he has a very hard time managing life. He is at a kids level in ways. He can be these ways one minute, and then laughing and carrying on the next minute. reactive. I know he can’t control all that and if he ever sees it, it’s way after the fact. He can make a poor decision with consequences and still find a way to romance it.

I’m trying to fix my thinking. I have to understand things because I’m so conflicted. I can and will take action, but..my reasoning and feelings are the fence.

I’m his mother, but can’t tell him what to do. He’s soft with his mom though.

You are not his mother, and should never be his mother. That is not a healthy relationship dynamic, nor is it fair to you. Yes, he certainly can control his disrespect towards you. And he certainly can control many of his behaviors. Moodiness and irritability, perhaps not so much, but that can be managed through medications and behavioral therapy.

Yes, I agree with you that your thinking needs to be corrected. You falsely believe that you must take care of him - you don't. And you falsely believe that his behavior is uncontrollable. It's not. You falsely believe that you somehow don't deserve any better, because it's familiar and you grew up in a very similar environment. It doesn't have to be so tumultuous, heartbreaking, upsetting, unsettling, negative, drama-filled, up and down, a roller coaster ride, like sitting on pins and needles, or any of the rest of the poisonous feelings that come from being in an unhealthy relationship. It doesn't have to be this way at all - and after a while, there comes a point where you have to realize that you are choosing this unhealthy environment for yourself and for your child. You have to realize that you are doing both of you a great disservice - you are harming yourself. Once you fully realize this, you will be more ready to pull that switch, make the decision, and make a choice for a far healthier life.

Yes it’s all about him. Im trying to take an even bigger step back than I have from him to objectively observe the big picture. It’s been over 20 years together so it’s not an easy decision.

As for the bolded. That's slightly confusing - wasn't it that he didn't yet start addiction treatment and trauma therapy? What's the "so much effort given to fix it" if not these?

That is with assuming it's cPTSD and the like.

And if it is bipolar after all, then why aren't the meds set up right yet to control the symptoms enough? Is he taking his medication at all? Regularly visiting a good psychiatrist?