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Old 05-13-2022, 04:47 PM   #41
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Of course he has weird thinking. Prolonged continuous drug abuse effects brain functions. Itís inevitable that his thinking is and will continue to be weird

I see you are denying that abuse of marijuana is one of the causes of his bad behaviors. You might need to read about it or talk to addictions counselors. Itís absolutely one of the causes of his behaviors, if not the main cause

Most people need to hit the rock bottom before they decide to seek help. As long as you provide him with home, food, bills paid and money to buy drugs heíll have to incentive to seek help with his addiction. You make it comfortable for him to continue abusing drugs. Then you think heíd just randomly quit. He wonít
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Old 05-13-2022, 10:41 PM   #42
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These conversations you are having with your daughter are way inappropriate. You are treating her like a peer confidant. She is "pushing" for you to have your husband leave the home? This is not the kind of thing where you have "family" discussions over what to do. You are lonely and wanting someone to commiserate with you, and your daughter is filling a role that she has no business being in.

Your daughter has a right to express to you her frustrations about *her* relationship with her father - to a point. She finds him "embarrassing" and "annoying.". (Sounds like typical teen talk.) Of course, you listen, and then you move on, and then she moves on to what is her business as a child/teen or whatever. Have your discussions about maintaining/ending the marriage with qualified adults. Listening to your daughter advise you about your personal problems with "self-worth" is inappropriate role-reversal. Those kind of verbal interchanges should be aborted. She must not focus on "Mom's problem." That is adult business, not for her to preoccupy herself with. She has a right to all sorts of opinions about everything going on around her. She needs to learn that some of her opinions are for her to entertain privately. Even between a mother and daughter there is such a thing as appropriate boundaries.

You are hurting your daughter's development by over involving her in what is your business.

Your husband is very likely to become homeless, if you decide to stop living with him. He knows that - deep down. Of course he clings to his family. You are what stands between him and the street. Deep down, you already know this. This is partly why ejecting him from the home seems so awful to you. You are worried what would happen to him. Deep down you know he can't cope with adult responsibilities. The prospect of him completely deteriorating outside the shelter of the marriage is very sad to contemplate. You don't want to be "responsible" for that.

In life, we sometimes face a choice between sacrificing ourself on an altar to "save" someone else and freeing ourself to make a life that is best for oneself. We want a win-win solution - best for me and best for this other person too. It really sucks to face a choice where I either take the best care of me, or I take care of holding him up. I can't do both. It's me or him. You have the option of continuing to take care of him. However, it is not your moral obligation to do so. You need to know you are free to choose. Being his perpetual caregiver is not something you owe him because he was "there for you" at times in the past. He didn't contract Alzheimer's disease, in which case you would have a responsibility for his care. He has adopted a style of living whereby he takes no responsibility for anything. You are not obligated to underwrite that. He is not entitled to be propped up by you. You can choose to do that for him, but you don't have to. There are forms of self-sacrifice that are noble. It is not noble to be someone else's doormat.

If you opt for separation, the only way to do it is through the court. He will not leave because you ask him to. He has nowhere to go.

You don't have to throw him out - of the marriage, or of the home. You have the option of continuing your current arrangement. It's an option, not an obligation.
I hear you and thank you. I am not lonely, wanting my daughter to commiserate. She is not my peer. She has been receiving counseling, and I think her discussions there are what had her reaching out to me telling me she doesnít want to live with him. And saying we should get divorced. I think it started with her saying divorce, and then evolved to her saying she needs to be away from him because her mental health. She told me she had been watching you tube videos about narcissists, so maybe thatís where the self worth thing comes from. Although I do recall saying to her that I had an alcoholic father so that affected my self worth. And yeah she sees him controlling things and she is more like him in that she likes things her way. When I say pushing me, I donít mean weíre having discussions about me waffling. I mean after her counseling session she was angry that she has to live with him and Iím not doing anything about kicking him out. I tell her whatís appropriate, Iím just reporting things sheís said. Iím not saying she is advising me or Iím asking her for advice. I canít think of anytime Iíve asked her for advice about anything, let alone this stuff. She said itís okay to leave someone who has problems like him and his choice after that is on him. She learned that in counseling and shared it with me. Sheís a kid who instead of just having normal teen stuff going on, has a father who had a complete mental breakdown a few years ago, and thatís not normal at all. She wants to be away from it because she wants to be a normal kid who can feel like she has a good standing in society and not some poor kid who has a c*azy dad. I felt horrible when she told me how she was feeling. I felt horrible that my child was feeling ashamed of her life instead of proud of herself. I felt like I didnít shield her from his madness when I should have. I have a hard time seeing the difference between a physical vs mental illness (or Alzheimerís) and I am extremely empathetic and patient and nonjudgmental for the most part. Iím very accommodating and I can withstand a lot of discomfort. Itís not a purposeful sacrifice. Itís my personality, or trauma, or I donít know. Thatís why I ask, why am I like this? I numb, Iím stuck, I just left a job with difficult bosses. I ďsurvivedĒ there for years when no one else could. Other employees would say how can you do this? Theyíd say they were screaming in their cars, crying at night, having nightmares, driving their partners crazy complaining about the boss, having their self esteem take a dive, losing their confidence, and so on. Iím happy at my new place. Iím learning from that. I can only do so many things at once.
I made some changes around here so my daughter is much more comfortable for the time being. She is smiling much more and focusing on defining herself.
If Id kicked him out immediately itíd be because she said thatís what she wanted and needed. Thatís not how it works, so Iím digging deep, trying to see. Iím trying to see the big picture. Itís easy to know I deserve a peaceful relationship, easy to know this isnít working and I donít approve, and easy to know no kid wants to live in weirdness when they can live in security and fun.
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Old 05-13-2022, 10:54 PM   #43
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How old is your husband?

Iím sorry, I think you have tried to hold your family together. Itís good that you are taking the time to think about what is healthy for you. You sound like you have a good heart. That may be taken advantage of though so itís good that you are taking time to figure that out.
44. Thank you. I have tried to hold it together. I think I should have left him years ago but I guess I wasnít financially secure enough to do so, and had no family to turn to. Too proud to involve friends. He was the breadwinner and me a stay at home mom. After his breakdown, he changed a lot, dynamics changed a lot.
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Old 05-13-2022, 10:59 PM   #44
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Has he ever had professional help?

The thing about self medicating with drugs or alcohol is that it can contribute to psychotic episodes and delusional thinking.
Heís been inpatient like 5 times so heís had that type of help. He has a counselor but the counselor warned they must go very slow working on things or itís a life threat.
I know it can contribute which is why Iíve been pressing him to curb the use, so his baseline can be determined, so heíll be on track.
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Old 05-13-2022, 11:11 PM   #45
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Of course he has weird thinking. Prolonged continuous drug abuse effects brain functions. Itís inevitable that his thinking is and will continue to be weird

I see you are denying that abuse of marijuana is one of the causes of his bad behaviors. You might need to read about it or talk to addictions counselors. Itís absolutely one of the causes of his behaviors, if not the main cause

Most people need to hit the rock bottom before they decide to seek help. As long as you provide him with home, food, bills paid and money to buy drugs heíll have to incentive to seek help with his addiction. You make it comfortable for him to continue abusing drugs. Then you think heíd just randomly quit. He wonít
I agree, and I donít deny marijuana abuse is a cause of his behavior. It is a huge problem around here and it affects things. Just saying even when he went to work high every day he still beefed with people and got fired, so I think that is more mental illness. Heís weird about working with others. Some people really like him, but others donít. He is a boisterous type. He gets triggered at work a lot, he gets very off track and he stays off track. He thinks other people are the problem-thinks theyíre too sensitive, too lazy, too wimpy, too unrealistic, on and on. Sometimes he did identify things as a ďhimĒ problem at one job, and in those cases he would become very draining on H.R. needing a lot of hand holding and attention and would constantly bring ďproblemsĒ to their attention. Very self sabotaging behavior. I believe it started when he started feeling too stressed again and spiraled from there. What happened at this job he lost today? Iím really donít know. I believe he thought his boss was weak or inferior or something, so he started being petty towards him and passive aggressive. He was very happy with this job and so pleased with the benefits, so I donít know why he jeopardized it. He must have thought he couldnít be fired since he reached three months and in a union. He talks how he wants to people and says if they canít handle it itís their problem.
Heís always made more money than me until the last couple years, so he always felt entitled to what he wants to buy because he worked hard. He says now he wonít buy it, but that seems impossible. Iíve tried separating the finances, but didnít get all the changes in place. Heís given up his card a number of times which seems to be most effective while it lasts. Itís ridiculous.

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Old 05-14-2022, 12:43 AM   #46
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So he goes to work drugged up, acts out and then gets fired. You are still saying drug abuse is not a problem on the job. Itís old wifeís take that pot only mellows people down. It causes psychosis. If someone says they went to work drunk and caused problems and got fired, would you still argue that alcohol isnít a problem and thatís not why they misbehave on the job and then get fired?.

I understand you donít want to leave and I get it you want to understand why he does this or that and often times itís important to know all this. But no amount of rationalizing and finding excuses for him will change the reality of whatís happening

Separating finances is not hard. Just create a bank account deposit work pay check there and only cover urgent bills like buying food and paying things for the house. If he doesnít work, isnít stay at home parent and is not on disability if he chooses to act out at work, he shouldnít have to be able to buy drugs.
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Old 05-14-2022, 12:46 AM   #47
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You mentioned you have fear of leaving him because he has triggers. Are you afraid of him and is the true reason is not leaving is fear of him and not other things? Many stay out of fear. It is sadly understandable
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Old 05-14-2022, 02:05 AM   #48
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Did your husband use marijuana before his break down?
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Old 05-14-2022, 03:17 AM   #49
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So he goes to work drugged up, acts out and then gets fired. You are still saying drug abuse is not a problem on the job. Itís old wifeís take that pot only mellows people down. It causes psychosis. If someone says they went to work drunk and caused problems and got fired, would you still argue that alcohol isnít a problem and thatís not why they misbehave on the job and then get fired?.

I understand you donít want to leave and I get it you want to understand why he does this or that and often times itís important to know all this. But no amount of rationalizing and finding excuses for him will change the reality of whatís happening

Separating finances is not hard. Just create a bank account deposit work pay check there and only cover urgent bills like buying food and paying things for the house. If he doesnít work, isnít stay at home parent and is not on disability if he chooses to act out at work, he shouldnít have to be able to buy drugs.
He worked at that place, high, for a year. He worked sober at the job he just got fired from. He got fired for the same reason at each. I think drug use on a job is a problem. I couldnít do my job high for five minutes. Iím not trying to argue that drug use isnít an issue. He hasnít been fired for being high is all. Basically heíll say something that there is no coming back from. His anger I guess.

I go back and forth between wanting him to go and hoping things will improve. I just keep bringing it up to him again and again (that I canít allow poor parenting, addiction, neglect). Each time feeling more real. Each time worrying less about how he receives the message, and believing more in my message.

Iím sure he thinks his last pay check earns him some weed. I told him I donít want him buying weed now. If he makes any money Iím sure heíll buy weed. Heíll always find a way to get weed. Heíll trade things for it. Invite a smoker over. I guess to separate finances I would get him off my bank account and have him pay me for expenses.
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Old 05-14-2022, 03:22 AM   #50
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Did your husband use marijuana before his break down?
Yes he did.
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Old 05-14-2022, 03:29 AM   #51
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You mentioned you have fear of leaving him because he has triggers. Are you afraid of him and is the true reason is not leaving is fear of him and not other things? Many stay out of fear. It is sadly understandable
Iíve been worrying heíll hurt himself, but I guess itís occurred to me that what if he hurts me. Ive been afraid of him in the past, yeah.
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Old 05-14-2022, 05:23 AM   #52
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What caused this break down he experienced?
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Old 05-14-2022, 06:56 AM   #53
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What caused this break down he experienced?
Before diagnosis/breakdown, heíd had a number of ptsd episodes triggered by religion/religious people, male authorities at work who yelled at him/invaded his personal space, threatened him, poked him in the chest (major trigger), child abuse memories that made him shake uncontrollably, constant intrusive thoughts of abuse he went through, being told by his mom that he should forgive his dad when itís the last thing he needed to be guilted about or directed to do (that happened like a week before breakdown) and then talking to his dad showing forgiveness which he quickly regretted, too much stress and responsibility at work with multimillion dollar project with deadlines and way too much overtime, current child abuse occurring in our family, some newly recalled abuse he had buried deep and became self harming about, some failed ventures, I could go on. He spent the summer isolating in the back yard drawing pictures of ugly men, wicked eyes, not saying much, I think he kept calling out of work, using vacation time? His face changed at this time, his eyes very wide, looking like recalling things and reliving. He couldnít talk about it, just kept drawing so many pictures. He finally told me he has been finding himself on the verge of trigger warning and would ďcome toĒ about to do the act. It was like involuntary, taking over him. Took him to e.r. He went inpatient, it was the constant memories of all types of abuse by a few people. So much anger and depression. He was different after that-stopped socializing, seemed ďgoneĒ, etc.
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Old 05-14-2022, 10:10 AM   #54
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I am sorry, from what you share it sounds like his ptsd can get down right crippling for him. Unfortunately, the average person can be very dismissive and can invalidate what is a genuinely horrible and confusing mental health challenge.

Itís bad enough that someone was badly traumatized in their past, but if ptsd is triggered to surface, itís actually traumatic and confusing to the person suffering. No one chooses to suffer with this form of mental illness. And one person can have it worse than others who develop it. And itís not just bad memories, instead the entire body carries this challenge throughout the nervous system. A trigger can cause a person to go into hyper vigilance and produce too much cortisol where the person can experience a lot of muscle tension and pain.

Some individuals become addicts as a way to escape symptoms they do not know is trauma related. There are individuals that get sober only to now have to learn that they are struggling with ptsd. This adds more challenge to learning how to live their lives sober.

Yes! Canibus is often used to help with the crippling ptsd symptoms. However, this is something that should be overseen by a professional. The level of THC is controlled and reduced. Buying street marijuana is bad because the weed being sold now can have very high levels of THC and that can end up damaging the brain and contribute to a person experiencing acute psychosis.

I think itís important the rest of the family gets counseling, it is not easy to live with and itís important to understand that itís not the sufferers fault.

The fact that your daughter has come to you with concerns means she should be seeing someone to help her understand what she is witnessing and advise her on how to best protect herself from being traumatized by what she is witnessing and can not control.

Itís only been two years since his break down. And to make matters worse we have all been expected to deal with a pandemic that has significantly changed how we live and interact.

Also, depression can be brutal with acute ptsd as itís mostly coming from real exhaustion. When it comes to working, itís important to find work that is not stress producing. Your husbands therapy should be helping him identify key types of triggers so he can learn to avoid these situations moving forward and regaining a sense of being able to be productive.

My guess is that your husband probably doesnít even know all his triggers. Yes, he may need to go slowly while exploring that in therapy.

I think you are sensitive and caring and you donít want to add hurt to your husband. However, you do need to learn how to protect your own mental health. It may be helpful if both you and your daughter see a therapist together. Your daughter needs counseling, her approaching you with concerns means she is being affected and is very concerned for you. Teenagers do not have enough life skills to navigate this kind of challenge. Your daughter
Is most likely afraid and confused and deserves to have understanding and help so she doesnít end up traumatized.

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Old 05-14-2022, 11:12 AM   #55
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A therapy that may help your husband is called DBT. This can help him slowly identify the emotions that flood him that contribute to him becoming overwhelmed. His being able to slowly identify emotions and verbalizing them can help him articulate his injuries not only to a therapist but to himself. This will help him gain a much needed sense of empowerment.
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Old 05-14-2022, 12:45 PM   #56
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Yeah PTSD isnít a joke. My husband has been diagnosed with PTSD as well. He has it under control but itís not something that would just go away. The thing is that substance abuse makes it worse, not better. Your husband needs to seek proper help. Not drugging.

Iíd say if itís severe enough he might need to go on disability. If he wants to stay employed though, he needs to figure out ways to behave on the job.

Reality is that you canít make him do any of it. He has to want to make changes. It canít come from you

And letís face it as important as he is for you, and as much as you want to help him, emotional and physical health and safety of your minor children should be a priority. What happens now effects them forever. We are responsible for life we create for our children
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Old 05-14-2022, 02:22 PM   #57
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I am sorry, from what you share it sounds like his ptsd can get down right crippling for him. Unfortunately, the average person can be very dismissive and can invalidate what is a genuinely horrible and confusing mental health challenge.

Itís bad enough that someone was badly traumatized in their past, but if ptsd is triggered to surface, itís actually traumatic and confusing to the person suffering. No one chooses to suffer with this form of mental illness. And one person can have it worse than others who develop it. And itís not just bad memories, instead the entire body carries this challenge throughout the nervous system. A trigger can cause a person to go into hyper vigilance and produce too much cortisol where the person can experience a lot of muscle tension and pain.

Some individuals become addicts as a way to escape symptoms they do not know is trauma related. There are individuals that get sober only to now have to learn that they are struggling with ptsd. This adds more challenge to learning how to live their lives sober.

Yes! Canibus is often used to help with the crippling ptsd symptoms. However, this is something that should be overseen by a professional. The level of THC is controlled and reduced. Buying street marijuana is bad because the weed being sold now can have very high levels of THC and that can end up damaging the brain and contribute to a person experiencing acute psychosis.

I think itís important the rest of the family gets counseling, it is not easy to live with and itís important to understand that itís not the sufferers fault.

The fact that your daughter has come to you with concerns means she should be seeing someone to help her understand what she is witnessing and advise her on how to best protect herself from being traumatized by what she is witnessing and can not control.

Itís only been two years since his break down. And to make matters worse we have all been expected to deal with a pandemic that has significantly changed how we live and interact.

Also, depression can be brutal with acute ptsd as itís mostly coming from real exhaustion. When it comes to working, itís important to find work that is not stress producing. Your husbands therapy should be helping him identify key types of triggers so he can learn to avoid these situations moving forward and regaining a sense of being able to be productive.

My guess is that your husband probably doesnít even know all his triggers. Yes, he may need to go slowly while exploring that in therapy.

I think you are sensitive and caring and you donít want to add hurt to your husband. However, you do need to learn how to protect your own mental health. It may be helpful if both you and your daughter see a therapist together. Your daughter needs counseling, her approaching you with concerns means she is being affected and is very concerned for you. Teenagers do not have enough life skills to navigate this kind of challenge. Your daughter
Is most likely afraid and confused and deserves to have understanding and help so she doesnít end up traumatized.
Itís been almost four years since the breakdown. My daughter is in counseling and I am positive that is why she voices that she wants to be apart from him now. Me knowing itís not his fault is whatís kept me by his side. Iíve known from the start about his trauma and abuse, itís the first thing he told me probably. Thatís a reason I endured a lot of bad behavior towards me, and my dad was the same way. He was diagnosed with ptsd when I was maybe 15, and then bipolar. My life revolved around my dads problems when I was a kid, and my life revolved around my husbands problems in the same way. The level of emotional pain and abuse I have endured from these relationships is not healthy at all. I donít even think I was aware I had agency until I went through almost a couple or few years of counseling starting right before 2015 I think. At the same time I was going to college and then getting a job to be financially secure on my own.
My daughter is already traumatized, that was unavoidable from the breakdown, the inpatients, his talk of self harm. And as I found out recently from her, a lot of things he would say and do around her that I had no awareness of because I was at work. Since she tells me those things now, I addressed them with her (plus her counselor helps her although daughter is absolutely sick of talking about him there because itís another place her life is taken over by him), and Iíve addressed things with him (separately of course) to the degree I can.
My daughter is not concerned for me I donít think. She just wants to be apart from the behavior and was trying to appeal to me via talk of divorce and healthy relationships. She was/is mad at me (frustrated) for being in an unhealthy relationship. She thinks his illness is no excuse, and she thinks he could improve things but that he stubbornly wonít.

I was diagnosed with ptsd as well and Iíve had a lot of complications from it but I mostly manage it by way of wanting to be ďgood,Ē especially a good mother. My husbands values are focused on nonconformity, passion, creativity, monogamy.
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Old 05-14-2022, 02:25 PM   #58
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A therapy that may help your husband is called DBT. This can help him slowly identify the emotions that flood him that contribute to him becoming overwhelmed. His being able to slowly identify emotions and verbalizing them can help him articulate his injuries not only to a therapist but to himself. This will help him gain a much needed sense of empowerment.
He hasnít been able to stick with that type of stuff. He goes away from it back into his own rutted routines.
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Old 05-14-2022, 02:43 PM   #59
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Yeah PTSD isnít a joke. My husband has been diagnosed with PTSD as well. He has it under control but itís not something that would just go away. The thing is that substance abuse makes it worse, not better. Your husband needs to seek proper help. Not drugging.

Iíd say if itís severe enough he might need to go on disability. If he wants to stay employed though, he needs to figure out ways to behave on the job.

Reality is that you canít make him do any of it. He has to want to make changes. It canít come from you

And letís face it as important as he is for you, and as much as you want to help him, emotional and physical health and safety of your minor children should be a priority. What happens now effects them forever. We are responsible for life we create for our children
Thank you, Divine. Yes he needs proper help but he is so stubborn. He wonít figure out ways to stay on the job. Heís now concluded that he just needs to do art and sell art. I assume he will apply for unemployment. His doctor had signed a paper saying he canít work, but then he got a job anyway. And then he got a different job which should have been low stress, but still was fired yesterday. He thinks itís his job to teach people a lesson. Itís very unhealthy. He gets fired for it. He likes to dominate people. I think he should apply for disability but he didnít want to when I brought it up before. Heís impossible.

I canít help him, I know it. I want the best life for my kids! Itís just dawned on meÖI think a couple few years ago my husband must have been telling our son that I want to separate because suddenly my son was saying ďmom you have to love us how we are. We are a family we have to stay together.Ē My husband was standing there. It was very weird and tense and I steered things another way. My kids confronted me around the same time (without him there) with long faces, asking me if I was getting a divorce. I asked them why they were asking me that, and they said they had seen something on the computer. I had been looking it up for my job, and explained that to them. They were relieved and crying. So from this, I had put out of my head to leave him when I had been privately considering it before. Thatís why I was caught off guard when my daughter brought her suggestion for divorce to me. My son currently asks how I can stand to be with him and he limits contact with him as much as possible.

I want whatís best and itís a confusing tangled mess in my head and heart which is why Iím coming here. Thank you everyone for taking your time for me.
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Old 05-14-2022, 05:27 PM   #60
Open Eyes
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((((Starlingflock)))),

You did a good job explaining things. I think you needed to get that all out too. Itís understandable that you donít know what course to take.

I am sorry that your own personal history has been that of living your life around addiction issues and a parent that also had mental health issues. Itís what you know, whatís familiar to you and why you also have ptsd symptoms yourself.

It sounds like your husband has more than ptsd, some kind of other disorder along with how he developed an addiction problem too.

How old are your children?

Last edited by Open Eyes; 05-14-2022 at 06:11 PM..
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