FAQ/Help |
Calendar |
Search |
Member
Member Since Apr 2022
Location: Usa
Posts: 241
2 93 hugs
given |
#181
Quote:
|
|
Reply With Quote |
downandlonely
|
Legendary
Member Since Mar 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 12,433
(SuperPoster!)
13 5,341 hugs
given |
#182
Quote:
I believe he does have "agency." I suspect he would be capable of switching to a different behavior pattern, if he had sufficient incentive. By that I mean, if his bad behavior had serious enough bad consequences for him. I worked as a nurse in the psychiatric division of a men's prison. A prison population is pretty stable, so I got to know these inmates pretty well. They were in prison because they had done bad things . . . as bad as you can imagine. Some had raped and murdered children. They were in the psych units because they had mental illness. Guess how they behaved? Most of the time, most of them behaved just fine. They were all, quite consistently, very nice to me. This is because they were tightly controlled. An inmate who doesn't play nice with his peers ends up getting locked down alone in his cell 23 hours a day. An inmate who behaves nicely toward a prison nurse gets treated nicely in return. He's apt to get more attention from the nurse. You'ld be amazed how well-mannered this population of men behaved . . . toward each other and toward the staff. If your husband got put in prison, his behavior would probably improve to an astonishing degree. Once he learned the consequences for bad behavior, he'ld probably modify that behavior in a good direction because he's not stupid. The threat of being isolated works wonders as a powerful incentive. People of very bad character need to be in an environnent where they are tightly controlled. Once they are subject to that much control, they often demonstrate behavior that is just fine. Our prisons hold some notorious inmates, convicted of monstrous crimes, who are currently behaving as nicely as you could wish. They just needed the right set of incentives. Maybe you've heard of Scott Peterson. He murdered his pregnant wife. The authorities at San Quentin say he "has no rules violations." He follows the prison regulations. If your husband were locked up, he wouldn't treat anyone there the way he treats you. He'ld choose different behavior because he would face consequences that would effectively motivate him. Your husband will act just as crappy as he can get away with. That is not mainly driven by being "sick." That is driven by his lack of character. You will never have sufficient leverage over your husband to modify his behavior. I'm not telling you to leave him or throw him out. I'm encouraging you to face the reality of who and what he is . . . and the reality of what influence you can or can't have on him. You and your therapist can analyze this guy until the cows come home. It's not going to lead to you figuring out how to get him to change. But you're not ready to let go of that hope. Maybe you never will be. This is not you being an idiot. This is you trying to find an option that doesn't exist. You've bought in to the idea that your husband is sick and that, with enough medical help, he can become well. You've been sold a bill of goods. That false idea floats around in our society, and you got infected with it. Last edited by Rose76; Jun 26, 2022 at 01:50 AM.. |
|
Reply With Quote |
downandlonely
|
Starlingflock
|
Legendary Wise Elder
Member Since Dec 2014
Location: US
Posts: 22,376
(SuperPoster!)
9 1,277 hugs
given |
#183
Quote:
It’s totally understandable that we often choose the life path that is familiar and was instilled in us in the childhood. It’s healthy and important to understand that. And I commend you for understanding that. Many people don’t. You aren’t one of them. And then there are people who do recognize where their life choices come from, but choose to spend their life wallowing in misery, never succeeding professionally, never having healthy relationships or friendships and never grow as a person because they choose to see themselves as still young children and victims of bad upbringing. We are powerless as children. We aren’t powerless as adults. At some point we grow up. We could choose to think of themselves as crying infants or as powerful independent grown ups who could build healthy lives and ensure that our children grow up to be healthy and successful. Otherwise we create and perpetuate misery in the next generation You can choose to devote your life to your husband or you can choose to create healthy environment for your daughter and yourself. You can’t have both. It’s not happening. Again you don’t have to leave him but at some point you will have to come to terms that you cannot change him and he definitely shouldn’t be allowed to drag your daughter in to his drama. He also shouldn’t be given any money to spend on anything frivolous. |
|
Reply With Quote |
Starlingflock
|
downandlonely, Starlingflock
|
Wise Elder
Member Since Dec 2017
Location: Eastern, USA
Posts: 9,092
(SuperPoster!)
6 3,628 hugs
given |
#184
Quote:
Your daughter may grow to become a codependent, as you have become yourself because she likely wants to fix her father and doesn't know how. You're not an idiot. But, you are making a choice to remain with someone who abuses you. Know that this is a choice you are consciously choosing. __________________ "Twenty-five years and my life is still trying to get up that great big hill of hope for a destination" ~4 Non Blondes |
|
Reply With Quote |
downandlonely, UnawareBS
|
divine1966, downandlonely, Starlingflock, UnawareBS
|
Legendary Wise Elder
Member Since Mar 2011
Location: Northeast USA
Posts: 23,117
(SuperPoster!)
13 21.3k hugs
given |
#185
Starlingflock, it’s not unusual for someone to marry someone that is similar to a toxic parent. It’s not an intentional choice, however often key red flags are missed because a person can feel safe due to what’s familiar. Also twenty years ago we simply were not exposed to all the information about personality disorders and toxic behavior red flags like we experience now.
I married a binge alcoholic just like my father, I didn’t know what that was and what happens when dealing with an individual that has addiction problems. They typically present a certain cycle of behaviors AND can continue these behaviors even if they stop using. This is known as dry drunk behavior. If a person grows up with this it may be something they get used to not recognizing how it’s affecting them adversely. Instead these mood swings they live around in a parent are expected. In therapy I had learned that my life revolved around the mood swings of an addicted personality. And it is living with a disordered individual. People with this problem can be charming and caring and nice and their mood changes. I was told that even though my husband finally got sober and attended AA, he would need therapy to address his mood swings and how that affected his family. It’s not unusual to get to the point that you are sharing where your husband’s issues have become too difficult. He is also going to continue to manipulate you to put up with him as this has worked for him for years. This is not a quick fix when you can’t be independent due to finances. However, you are still young enough where you can work towards being more independent. Plenty of women take this path. My concern is how this is affecting your children. I think you should have a private talk with your children about this. Let them share their concerns. |
Reply With Quote |
downandlonely, Starlingflock
|
downandlonely, Starlingflock, UnawareBS
|
Veteran Member
Member Since Jan 2017
Location: In the back of your mind
Posts: 585
7 68 hugs
given |
#186
Hi starling flock.
I found that I could only gain true confidence when I made the choice that I knew to be right in my heart, often a choice I had known to be the right one but had been avoiding the truth of it through all kinds of mental acrobatics. Confidence is knowing yourself, your needs and the most tricky of all, your wants. No amount of advice from others can give you true confidence, the choice is all yours and that’s what gives you the strength. We need to be in our own corners, have our own backs, love ourselves and protect ourselves. Do what is in your heart starlingflock, it sounds like it’s time for a change. |
Reply With Quote |
Have Hope, Starlingflock, UnawareBS
|
Starlingflock
|
Legendary
Member Since Mar 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 12,433
(SuperPoster!)
13 5,341 hugs
given |
#187
Quote:
You are not being "backed into a corner." You are backing into a corner. There's a difference. You spoke earlier of shame being thrown at you. Nothing is being thrown at you (except your husband's insults.) It truly is shameful to abandon a spouse because one is tired of his "sickness." As long as you see him as a "sick" person, you will feel ashamed of failing to support him. And you will deserve to feel shame. It is wrong to blame someone for being sick. Yes, your husband is sick. But that's not the whole story, as you keep making it be. He is a bad person. He engages in evil behavior. Mental illness doesn't make a person bad. He's bad because he lacks moral values. He believes he has a right to do whatever he can get away with. That belief didn't come from being mentally ill. It probably came from growing up under the influence of someone who lacked moral integrity. Your husband's lack of moral values comes from his beliefs about right and wrong. It is not a sickness. It is an evil way of thinking. At his age, that way of thinking is hard-wired in his head. You will not change it by pleading with him to adopt a "healthy" approach to life. Doing what is right is something He Does Not Care About. |
|
Reply With Quote |
Starlingflock
|
Member
Member Since Apr 2021
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 315
3 58 hugs
given |
#188
Hi starlingflock. I hope you are well tonight
You are NOT an idiot. You are a wife who is struggling with a difficult choice. I can wish and hope for many things for you. Tonight I choose to hope you stop thinking you are an idiot. No one can change the past. We can't go back and make different choices in hopes it changes our present. Beating yourself up by calling yourself an idiot is not going to bring you to happiness in the future. It only keeps you focused on the past. Wishing you had done things differently is normal, but the past is how you got now. It does not have to dictate your future. All the best. |
Reply With Quote |
Starlingflock
|
Starlingflock
|
Member
Member Since Apr 2022
Location: Usa
Posts: 241
2 93 hugs
given |
#189
I decided abruptly today was the day. I told him I want to divorce. He was angry and wanted to tell the kids immediately, I think believing they would be upset and try to talk me out of it. Of course that’s not what happened. My son even told him he probably won’t talk to him anymore (he lives out of the house).
I’ve been crying off and on all day. It’s right for me and my child, but obviously sad and will be difficult ahead. Husband bought weed, and junk food and has been binge watching tv since. I checked in with him awhile ago, and he said he loves me with all his heart, and wants to make it work. But asking how…he just says his normal stuff…and I said it clarifies that he is interested in other things and not the relationship and having a healthy dynamic. He says oh what you’re talking about my addiction. I said yeah that’s one thing marriages break up over addiction. He said I’m breaking vows. He said he’s not doing a thing and I can talk to a lawyer and do the work. My kid…without my permission or direction..asked him if he will leave and let us have the house and put the house on the market. He said sure. It’s been an exhausting day. I have to follow through. |
Reply With Quote |
RollercoasterLover
|
Rose76
|
Member
Member Since Apr 2022
Location: Usa
Posts: 241
2 93 hugs
given |
#190
Quote:
I told him today I want to separate. I still am fighting feeling the hope that he’ll see that it was wrong to talk to me those ways, or make financial decisions without me, or dismiss and discount me, etc. I don’t know what would make his behavior better, he prides himself a nice guy. |
|
Reply With Quote |
Rose76
|
Member
Member Since Apr 2022
Location: Usa
Posts: 241
2 93 hugs
given |
#191
Quote:
|
|
Reply With Quote |
Have Hope
|
Have Hope, Rose76
|
Member
Member Since Apr 2022
Location: Usa
Posts: 241
2 93 hugs
given |
#192
Quote:
My kids shared their concerns with me in the first place, which is what lit a fire under me. |
|
Reply With Quote |
Open Eyes
|
Open Eyes
|
Legendary Wise Elder
Member Since Mar 2011
Location: Northeast USA
Posts: 23,117
(SuperPoster!)
13 21.3k hugs
given |
#193
You say you could cover the mortgage on your home. Don’t forget that your husband owns half of whatever equity you have in that home.
|
Reply With Quote |
Starlingflock
|
Member
Member Since Apr 2022
Location: Usa
Posts: 241
2 93 hugs
given |
#194
Quote:
I know I want to feel respected, that I have control of my life. I don’t want to be embroiled in dysfunction (anymore). I have to draw the line, not keep begging for something. I need to act with self respect. Reptileinthehead-..i believe you…it is time for a change. |
|
Reply With Quote |
Have Hope
|
Member
Member Since Apr 2022
Location: Usa
Posts: 241
2 93 hugs
given |
#195
Quote:
|
|
Reply With Quote |
Member
Member Since Apr 2022
Location: Usa
Posts: 241
2 93 hugs
given |
#196
Quote:
|
|
Reply With Quote |
Member
Member Since Apr 2022
Location: Usa
Posts: 241
2 93 hugs
given |
#197
|
Reply With Quote |
Open Eyes
|
Member
Member Since Apr 2022
Location: Usa
Posts: 241
2 93 hugs
given |
#198
I’m pretty anxious. This is going to be very difficult. It will be much easier if he decides it’s better for him.
|
Reply With Quote |
Legendary
Member Since Mar 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 12,433
(SuperPoster!)
13 5,341 hugs
given |
#199
As you say above, you have difficult days ahead. I wouldn't go making a lot more announcements to him about what you are doing. It will just provoke bad behavior from him.
Make sure your paychecks go into an account that's in your name only. See an attorney about protecting yourself financially. Your husband may try applying for credit that you could end up financially responsible for. He may try to get a line of credit based on home equity. He could end up spending the home equity before you even figure out what you'll do with the house. See a lawyer, and don't even mention to your husband that you have spoken to a lawyer. Your husband is clever and manipulative. You need an attorney to explain to you what rights your husband has. Your husband will be strategizing how to use his rights to manipulate things in his favor. He will certainly look to drain out what marital assets he can plunder. Get rid of any joint credit cards. A part of your heart is going to hope that the divorce announcement shows him you're serious and will shake him up into wanting to change and act better. You'll go back and forth on that. That's okay. Just go get legal advice on how to protect yourself from what financial stunts he might pull. Avoid getting into verbal back and forths with your husband. Go about things quietly. If he sees you seriously pursuing separation/divorce he is going to get really angry. He has the potential to become dangerous. That could get directed at himself, or at you. He is a manipulator. Avoid drama. You may want to pour out your heart to him. Don't. |
Reply With Quote |
RollercoasterLover, Starlingflock
|
Member
Member Since Apr 2022
Location: Usa
Posts: 241
2 93 hugs
given |
#200
Quote:
He manipulates me. I keep worrying to myself about him self harming but he said to our son that he is going to be safe and will take care of himself. |
|
Reply With Quote |
Open Eyes
|