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Default May 10, 2022 at 12:13 AM
  #1
I’d like to know your opinion and explanations to whatever option you chose.
I’m starting from the idea that any generalisation is unfair.

I ask this question because a neighbour told me about a experience that shocked and hurt me a lot.
He’s the most emphatic person I know, the nicer person. He has different illnesses such as chronic fatigue, ankylosing spondylitis and a cyst in his brain. This last one made him sometimes to lose his body balance and can fall down and be unconscious for some seconds. But, he is going through a time now where he’s full of optimism. He gives walks with his two doggies. ( He was gonna adopted one but he discovered that there was another doggie who were the sister of the former, with this you can make yourself an idea of what kind of person I’m talking about &#128512
Now, the doggies learnt to wake him up when he suffers a loss of conscience.

Well, he told me about the last falling he had because I asked him. He said that it was recently, and that he was next to a coffee shop, full of people outside, in the street having their dinner.
He even got to injured in the falling but when he got to his senses, he realised that noone had moved a finger to rise him or go close to him.
Only a waiter asked him if he needed the coffee shop’s first aid kit. Noone called an ambulance or did anything for him. I know how he is and I’m sure he asked the waiter for not worrying about him and he said that he didn’t need anything. But…
This indifference is something I can’t understand. And it hurts me in an incredible way more that it happens to people so nice a collaborative with others.

I know it’s only an example but I see everyday how people do their business, go pass you and many times if they have to pass stepping on you to go first, many of them, will do it. The same I see with people driving cards, using public transports, when they go for shopping…
people complaining about everything and blaming others if they didn’t get what they want and go to schools to blame teachers and put all their frustrations and problems on them, or go to public offices with a bad attitude towards the person who is at the other side of the counter, etc.

It’s supposed we had evolved to adapted to live in a Community.
What is happening? Educative patterns are failing? Is good citizenship understood more like obedience than collaboration or compassion? Is nowadays “Carpe diem” and self-satisfaction take to an extreme for the sake of get more consumers?
I don’t know it. Which is the beginning or what’s the root of all these?
Is it maybe something we need, as an evolution, an adaptation to new times? Am I wrong and being unfair when I say there were more collaboration and a better disposition to give someone a hand when it’s needed?
Is that we only show these good citizenship with our know people?

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Default May 10, 2022 at 02:51 AM
  #2
You have really opened up a "can of worms" here.

Here in the UK, someone had the bright idea that Covid and its associated difficulties would serve to bring communities together. Also to make us more caring towards our fellow human being.

Wrong! If anything, people here are now worse. The "don't give a damn" attitude is more obvious. As long as they can do what they want when they want, then it's tough luck to everyone else. This happens when driving, in shops, even with my close neighbours (not all thankfully).

A few weeks ago, I went to the aid of an elderly man who had fallen into the parking space I was about to occupy. Luckily, staff from a nearby food store had also seen him fall, so took over his care (first aid trained). Yes, a few people walked past initially.

My own stand-out experience was less serious but also made me question why people have an attitude. In the same food store (as mentioned above), trying to pay with gift card that wouldn't work. In the end, had to move to another till to complete payment. When staff apologised to elderly woman next in queue, she was very aggressive. Asked to move to another till, she responded "just how long are you going to be/I don't want to move". Assistant was very patient although she was now having her ear bent by this obnoxious woman. I should have realised sooner what her behaviour would be, due to the tutting/loud sighing when she was behind me.

True empathy is an excellent trait but very few people have it naturally. My young niece has far more than her parents and lots of her relatives. I hope that she will continue to retain but balance with the other characteristics required to deal with everything this world has to offer!
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Default May 10, 2022 at 08:17 AM
  #3
I’m so sorry your neighbour experienced this, that is quite awful, for people to be indifferent to his injury.

I really don’t know the answer to this, it’s a big topic to be sure. I think you’re possibly right generally speaking.

I did have one experience last year - an elderly man took an awful fall in the street and cut his head, his young care assistant was with him and had phoned an ambulance (this man was very frail) I asked if they were okay and she said yes but my gut told me to stay with them. So I sat and physically propped him (he couldn’t stand) and kept chatting- I had my picnic rug with me so I covered him and kept him warm. In that time I lost count of how many people stopped to ask if they could help. The security guards from the shopping centre came and got him a wheelchair and did first aid and these big tough guys were so gentle with him. He was the sweetest gentleman and we had the nicest chat, it was his first time out since lockdown so he’d been lonely.

I’m no saint but I do think “That might be my dad/or me one day” it’s how I was raised I think. Maybe that’s it? Parenting? Example? I don’t know.
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Default May 10, 2022 at 12:31 PM
  #4
My neighbor and I were chatting at our shared fence the other day. She was not her normal cheerful self. In our conversation, she told me she was being sued. She had helped the woman after she fell in a parking lot. The woman was trying very hard to get up on her own, but my neighbor insisted she wait for more help. It was raining and my neighbor and a few others covered her with umbrellas and coats. Police and paramedics arrived and she was taken to the hospital with a broken hip and wrist.
The family of this woman says my neighbor and the others, including the first police officer to arrive contributed to her contracting pneumonia because they refused to help her move inside. She died a months after falling in the parking lot.
I think the appearance of a lack of empathy and walking by someone or not helping is because of our need for self preservation and protection. The risk of being blamed for harm is too great even when the intention is preventing more harm.
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Default May 10, 2022 at 01:20 PM
  #5
Here, I feel that since October 2019 when this country had the protests, riots and looting things have gone downhill. I am sure the lockdowns didn't help either. People definitely seem angrier and less considerate and simply display worse behavior, for example, mistreating retail employees.
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Default May 11, 2022 at 06:25 AM
  #6
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Originally Posted by RollercoasterLover View Post
My neighbor and I were chatting at our shared fence the other day. She was not her normal cheerful self. In our conversation, she told me she was being sued. She had helped the woman after she fell in a parking lot. The woman was trying very hard to get up on her own, but my neighbor insisted she wait for more help. It was raining and my neighbor and a few others covered her with umbrellas and coats. Police and paramedics arrived and she was taken to the hospital with a broken hip and wrist.
The family of this woman says my neighbor and the others, including the first police officer to arrive contributed to her contracting pneumonia because they refused to help her move inside. She died a months after falling in the parking lot.
I think the appearance of a lack of empathy and walking by someone or not helping is because of our need for self preservation and protection. The risk of being blamed for harm is too great even when the intention is preventing more harm.
That’s so tough and sad. I can see litigation might be a fear especially in countries where it’s done more commonly.

When I did a first aid course and we learned CPR the course leader talked about fears of litigation, as there were stories if you broke someone’s ribs with chest compressions you might get sued. He said if someone had stopped breathing already there was nothing left to lose and that no ordinary person had ever been successfully prosecuted for intervening with good intent. However he did say that Drs, nurses who were off duty could be prosecuted because of their Hippocratic oath to do no harm and so they are often reluctant to help off duty. Maybe it’s similar for police officers? Hoping your neighbour will be okay. I know things may be different in your country but hoping any judge will look kindly upon her intent.
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Default May 11, 2022 at 01:13 PM
  #7
Nowadays? No. This is not a recent trend. It has always been like that - only to go back and check what happened in the news or in history way back when and/or all the research done in social psychology in trying to understand this indifference to another's distress or their lack of empathy etc.

Human beings are just not a very 'nice' species.
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Default May 12, 2022 at 04:21 AM
  #8
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Originally Posted by Discombobulated View Post
That’s so tough and sad. I can see litigation might be a fear especially in countries where it’s done more commonly.

When I did a first aid course and we learned CPR the course leader talked about fears of litigation, as there were stories if you broke someone’s ribs with chest compressions you might get sued. He said if someone had stopped breathing already there was nothing left to lose and that no ordinary person had ever been successfully prosecuted for intervening with good intent. However he did say that Drs, nurses who were off duty could be prosecuted because of their Hippocratic oath to do no harm and so they are often reluctant to help off duty. Maybe it’s similar for police officers? Hoping your neighbour will be okay. I know things may be different in your country but hoping any judge will look kindly upon her intent.
Yeah doctors are obligated to help regardless if they are on or off duty. Nurses are not obligated when off duty. In the US it’s mostly because doctors have huge liability insurance that will cover them if they are sued. Nurses don’t have such insurance so if they help someone when off duty and things go wrong, they risk to lose their job, license, money and could potentially end up incarcerated.

So I’d not blame nurses staying out if it when off duty. If you have little kids at home you’d think about what will happen to them first if things go wrong

Last edited by divine1966; May 12, 2022 at 04:50 AM..
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Default May 12, 2022 at 04:50 AM
  #9
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Originally Posted by RollercoasterLover View Post
My neighbor and I were chatting at our shared fence the other day. She was not her normal cheerful self. In our conversation, she told me she was being sued. She had helped the woman after she fell in a parking lot. The woman was trying very hard to get up on her own, but my neighbor insisted she wait for more help. It was raining and my neighbor and a few others covered her with umbrellas and coats. Police and paramedics arrived and she was taken to the hospital with a broken hip and wrist.
The family of this woman says my neighbor and the others, including the first police officer to arrive contributed to her contracting pneumonia because they refused to help her move inside. She died a months after falling in the parking lot.
I think the appearance of a lack of empathy and walking by someone or not helping is because of our need for self preservation and protection. The risk of being blamed for harm is too great even when the intention is preventing more harm.
It’s not even recommended to help people to get up (unless you have medical training) because you can cause more damage like if it’s an spinal injury. Its ridiculous they are suing random passers by for not helping. It’s not like this person came to the hospital and hospital refused to help.
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Default May 12, 2022 at 01:03 PM
  #10
No. I don’t think there’s less empathy now days. I think the actual % is the same as it’s always been. There’s just so much more people and so there are more of the un empathetic people and the media focus is on them. Wouldn’t it be nice if the media focused on random acts of kindness instead?

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Default May 15, 2022 at 05:45 PM
  #11
Thanks everyone for your replies.
I said on my thread nowadays but I didn’t say which period I compared it with. My fault.

Biologically, we developed part of our brain to be more empathetic because we needed it for the sake of adaptation.

@rive, you are very right. There have been many researches made sociologically and the lack of involvement comes from a long time. You only have to see the ones who rise the pyramid and become our governments. The material there are made of.

I wonder where this takes us. Maybe, another genetical mutation along many, many years after. But this time for bad.

I don’t care a single bit about whether people get into troubles or not in case we have to help somebody. I meant I put to help people over whether or not I’m gonna have problems. Of course, always, without putting the other person at risk. This is what it’s all about. It’s obvious.

As a positive note, I will tell that my neighbour’s two doggies reaction is always to help my neighbour to recover his senses. So, he feels safer when he goes with them and he doesn’t have to use his chair wheels anymore.
Thanks everyone who felt concerned about him. It said a lot about you. 💖💖💖

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Default May 15, 2022 at 09:19 PM
  #12
Wow. I wonder where you live that people just kept on walking and didn’t even call the ambulance or asked if he is ok. It’s quite bizarre honestly. One thing not physically helping him to get up out of fear of harming him. Another thing is just completely ignore it.

I lived on two continents and travelled to many US states and to many countries and have never seen a situation when a person fell down in front of crowds of people and no one even said anything. That’s just some asinine behaviors. Is it common where you live? It’s not common behavior in my observation at all. Bizarre to say the least
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Default May 16, 2022 at 03:03 AM
  #13
There are so many angles to view this from.

Yes, empathy is supposed to be natural but the degree varies between people. It's human nature or may be related to culture.

The practical side of helping someone after a fall may be conditioned by your lack of first aid training and/or realising you could do more damage. In the situation I shared, I asked the elderly gentleman if he was alright. May seem a daft question when he'd cut himself and broken his glasses. However, he managed to stand and walk to a nearby bench.

When you watch the numerous programmes about paramedics, even they are cautious about moving someone until they've ascertained there's no spinal injury at the very least. Then they are trained to a very high standard. Contracting pneumonia after a fall is common with the elderly.

On the flip side, I do recall media reports some years ago about doctors and nurses refusing to answer calls for medical assistance on flights, due to possibility of being sued.

Around 15 years ago, my late uncle was taken ill (he had lots of underlying health problems). My cousin was not happy with the hospital he was taken to and thought it contributed to his death. I very tactfully suggested that with said hospital also treating injured military personnel, he could not have gone to a better place for medical expertise.

Hopefully, those threatening to sue will take a step back and realise that there is no case. However, grief can manifest itself in so many different ways.
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Default May 22, 2022 at 06:37 PM
  #14
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Originally Posted by poshgirl View Post
There are so many angles to view this from.

Yes, empathy is supposed to be natural but the degree varies between people. It's human nature or may be related to culture.

The practical side of helping someone after a fall may be conditioned by your lack of first aid training and/or realising you could do more damage. In the situation I shared, I asked the elderly gentleman if he was alright. May seem a daft question when he'd cut himself and broken his glasses. However, he managed to stand and walk to a nearby bench.

When you watch the numerous programmes about paramedics, even they are cautious about moving someone until they've ascertained there's no spinal injury at the very least. Then they are trained to a very high standard. Contracting pneumonia after a fall is common with the elderly.

On the flip side, I do recall media reports some years ago about doctors and nurses refusing to answer calls for medical assistance on flights, due to possibility of being sued.

Around 15 years ago, my late uncle was taken ill (he had lots of underlying health problems). My cousin was not happy with the hospital he was taken to and thought it contributed to his death. I very tactfully suggested that with said hospital also treating injured military personnel, he could not have gone to a better place for medical expertise.

Hopefully, those threatening to sue will take a step back and realise that there is no case. However, grief can manifest itself in so many different ways.
The intervention I’m referring to is not the one that can put the person who has an emergency at more risk.
I said a normal aid, for example, to go closer to this person to see how he or she can be and of course, call the emergency service when necessary.

I have so many examples. A man taking his son to school on a motorbike. They fell down, the father got injured with a broken rib. Two cars passed cross, slowed down the rate but they didn’t stop.
It was in a rural road, so, no many people there. They had to call by themselves and wait for the son’s mother.

Luckily, up to what I know, the drivers of these cars didn’t slowed down to take a pic at them as this morning two cars made with a young guy who was “sleeping” opposite my house. I was at home, I have just woken up and I realised they were many people coming and going and noone went close to the guy to ask him a simple question: Do you need medical help? Are you ok?
I was shouting out through my window and the guy told me that a friend of him was coming and that he felt a little better. So, a bus stopped to get the friend get off it and they went off.
I don’t f. care if the guy’s problem was that he drunk too much at the funfair. One never knows how dangerous it could be for a young guy.

Another example, another country, another continent. A serial killer, the victim got to scape but the miserable of the killer was chasing him with a gun. Of course, the guy was running in zig-zag when he finally arrived to the road. Cars and cars didn’t stop. It was in the morning.
Thanks god a woman stopped and the guy could save his life.

It happens all the time in the News. People fighting or arguing and others around taking pics with their stupid phones.

All our development is related to our biological capacity to adapt ourselves to the environmental characteristics. That made us to develop our brain in a certain way. Prefrontal Cortex made us rational humans. Being capable of coexist for a common wellbeing. Now, what?
Which conditions are around us? What does convert us in robots, in brainless beings going here and there in the streets, at homes, wherever with our nose sticked on a screen.
Are these conditions helping to overcome our ancient mechanism of defence that the different one is not one of us, or is subject to be on guard?

Personality, this world we are creating is terribly disgusting. 🤮🤮🤮

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Default May 22, 2022 at 09:54 PM
  #15
I know for me personally with so many in the world complaining that everything offends them I start to care less if they are offended becayse EVERYTHING that doesn't agree with how they think offends them. So I start to care less whether I offend or not.

Now on the actual caring part, I have always observed the world around me & if someone needs help I give it to them even if I don't know them. Many friends have said I was putting my own life at risk but I always did what I felt was necessary at the time. I think many feel that helping may not be worth a risk to their own lives given how they perceive society is becoming.

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Default May 23, 2022 at 06:47 PM
  #16
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I know for me personally with so many in the world complaining that everything offends them I start to care less if they are offended becayse EVERYTHING that doesn't agree with how they think offends them. So I start to care less whether I offend or not.

Now on the actual caring part, I have always observed the world around me & if someone needs help I give it to them even if I don't know them. Many friends have said I was putting my own life at risk but I always did what I felt was necessary at the time. I think many feel that helping may not be worth a risk to their own lives given how they perceive society is becoming.
Thanks for being like this.

Do you remember when there was a terrorist attack in London and a man approached to help a woman who was gonna be stab by another individuo? This guy tried to prevent it facing to the terrorist with the only tool he had at this moment. This poor guy received the stab wounds instead of the woman and he died.
He was Spanish and his empathy for helping others and do what it’s fair, cost his life. But, it was something superior in himself.
These are only counted cases.
I’m not saying people have to put their lives at risk. But between this and taking the phone to ask for help instead of being there as a stupid spectator, taking pics with your i-phone, or recording a video, or interrupt your dinner rising your butt from a chair to ask a man who fell down how he is and ask for help if he’s unconscious there’s a whole world.

I don’t know how I would react in a situation that could be risky for me. The far I came is to advise a guy who was in the road with his motorbike stopped and began to argue with someone who was sitting on a table in the terrace of a restaurant, while cars and other vehicles were passing by. Immediately, my partner asked me for not intervine.
Or stopped my car in a highway to assist a man whose car overturn. Nothing risky for me.
But, what it’s sure is that I’m not the one who thinks that others will help. Maybe this is what happens many times, some people wait for others to intervine.
“ Such a wonderful world”

* This is fair to honor the guy who lost his life to save a woman. He was Ignacio Echeverría.

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Default May 31, 2022 at 07:52 AM
  #17
Guys and gals, I found an article on Psychology Today and how @@Rive pointed out, there have been many researches on this issue that may explain explain all the points you all have brought up.

I guess may of you already knew about !!! bystander effect!!!!! only knew a few about it, to be honest, that’s why I was so bothered and shocked when all these people didn’t dare to help my neighbour.

This is the article about the bystander effect:

Bystander Effect | Psychology Today

Maybe in the case of my neighbour as there were many people having dinner, they decided all to put the responsibility on the waiters. Or on the others.

On another side, unluckily, one of these variables that intervine and try to explain the bystander effect is the how to call it, kind of judgement, for example if the person in trouble is a person who has drunk, we tend to blame the person (I know it, stupid as hell but understandable) and my neighbour’s mobility is a little reduced and sometimes he lost stability so people may have thought he was drunk. He even recognised me that it may be the cause in our second conversation about the issue.

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Default May 31, 2022 at 08:32 AM
  #18
Check out also concepts of 'diffusion of responsibility', 'pluralistic ignorance' etc. Not to mention all the studies in social psychology on 'empathy'.
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Default May 31, 2022 at 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Rive. View Post
Check out also concepts of 'diffusion of responsibility', 'pluralistic ignorance' etc. Not to mention all the studies in social psychology on 'empathy'.
Yes, very interesting. How when we are in a crowd we tend to behave in a different way than how we normally behave as individuals.
I admit that I like a lot Sociology to explain tendencies but I have this Science left for a long time. I have been focused mainly on Psychology for obvious reasons but it’s very interesting.
Thank you for your insight.
I take the advances of this post for @@Rive, to thank you all of you for your insight.
Really appreciated. 😀💖

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Default May 31, 2022 at 09:28 AM
  #20
Agreed, social psychology (not the same as sociology) is truly fascinating in attempting to 'explain' human behaviour!
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