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Default Jul 11, 2022 at 08:50 AM
  #1
I'm sorry this got long. DH is having significant mental health problems, but seems largely unaware of them. He's always been a big emotions person and has probably always been a high functioning borderline for our entire marriage (30+years). In the last five years or so, he's had very serious issues, including predictable swings that look like milder bipolar, but he can only maybe see those if he gets very depressed. I am also concerned that he might be going into a behavioral variant of dementia. His personality changed almost overnight in horrifyingly frightening ways 4 or 5 years ago, the behaviors so unlike him that nobody would believe me, and because we have a minor child, I've been stuck for her sake.

It was less than a year ago that he finally started having problems at work (progressive illness?) and became very depressed. This was followed by a nervous breakdown last April. He's since been in treatment and on meds, but has recently seemed hypomanic and is going off his meds. The doctors tell him he isn't hypomanic because he reports that he sleeps fine. Wish the doctors were here when it's like the Tasmanian devil has shown up.

About a year after his initial behavioral changes he was diagnosed with a super rare neurological tumor on his spine. Because of that when he first started complaining last fall they did a brain MRI which showed nothing structurally significant about his brain. He did terribly on the small neurological test at the neurologist's office, but because he's still working, they passed it off, and he continued to struggle on until the breakdown.

There is something wrong with this man really really wrong and no one will listen to me. I feel like I'm losing my mind somedays.

He's been in talk therapy for a couple of months and I was asked to join the session last week. My understanding was that I was joining to add insight about his condition and behaviors things that I observe. From what I read prior to going to the appointment it sounded like it would be inappropriate for his counselor to address issues with me. If marital counseling were appropriate we should be referred to another counselor- I don't know if this is true or not just what I read.

At the appointment the counselor was not interested in my observations of his peculiar behaviors which continue to this day. He showtimes very well for other people. If we have company he will put on a perfect front for an hour or two and then will be so tired from the act that he can't function for the rest of the day. I felt repeatedly chastised for focusing on the massive personality changes that I find so disconcerting. She's concerned with the wonderful person he's trying to be now rather than the frightening changes that have taken place.

Four years ago, he raged on me and DD which was the first major event- completely out of the blue and completely unlike him. The counselor told me that this was my issue because the fear was my reaction. . I totally get being responsible for oneself and reactions, but I felt a little victimized. I remind myself that this woman doesn't know the person that my daughter and I currently live with, and she doesn't know the person I used to know, doesn't seem to get just how frighteningly bizarre the change has been. She doesn't get that I did the things I did to protect myself and my daughter in that moment. She didn't hold him accountable for being abusive. She talked to him about it but didn't even ask him if he felt badly for doing it. Instead she turned it back around that the problem was that I didn't put down strong boundaries with him. Up until that point 26 years into our marriage there was no need for me to be able to do that, and at the point my concern was my daughter's safety as well as my own. I would have left if someone had believed me and I didn't have to worry about my daughter being taken away from me.

Overall I think it was a mistake for me to go to counseling with him. None of my observations were taken seriously. Instead I felt like I was told that I'm the one who has to make more effort to make things better. Right now I'm dealing with codependency (didn't tell this counselor that) and everything the counselor told me to do feels like a violation of my codependency work. I need to focus on me, my health and boundaries, and she says I need to focus on, and put effort into, reconnecting with my husband, who has lost his empathy among other things. There is nothing much there to connect to at this point. I may as well shout at the wind. I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't.

I feel strongly that this man has a bigger neurological picture that has yet to be discovered and nobody will listen to me, and DH has low awareness about much of his problem. I am just at a loss as to what to do. In think I need to carry on and take care of myself.

Not sure what to do if I'm asked to go to counseling again. Just a gentle "no" ? Or should I say something more?

I'm so frustrated right now with everything. If I had the means to walk away, I say I would, but then sometimes I look at him and he physically looks compromised, like a dementia patient might, and I wonder if I could actually do it.

Should I just be focusing on myself and child? Is that okay? I thought it was until I "went" to "counseling". A few weeks ago I told my husband that he needed to focus on making himself better and I needed to focus on making myself better then we needed to see how we fit together. The counselor didn't seem to support that kind of individual growth as a means of making the marriage better (or letting it fall apart completely).

I appreciate it if you made it through this, and would also appreciate any thoughts and advice. At the very least, thank you for letting me vent.
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Default Jul 11, 2022 at 10:11 AM
  #2
It’s seem to me, guys, that you aren’t going to get something good out of it, if you don’t try both to find a sort of independency.
I see you’re right. You both have things to fix up and evolve. Especially he, according to the situation you describe in your thread.
You can always support him but not at your health and your daughter’s cost.

I can’t understand why you weren’t listened by his therapist. Why in the Earth, she asked for you intervention then. As long as she validates his behaviour, he will find an easy excuse for it.

Are you currently seeing a therapist yourself? It could be the time to discuss this issue with him/her.
Is your husband open to visit a doctor for the matter about dementia or you haven’t discussed with him this issue yet?

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Default Jul 11, 2022 at 02:44 PM
  #3
"He showtimes very well for other people.If we have company he will put on a perfect front for an hour and two and then will be so tired from the act that he can't function for the rest of the day "
I am all too well familiar with this kind of behavior. Does he gets abusive after the people have left ?
My parents behaved like that.Infact after the guests left,they had to regulate the frustration that develops after acting nice for long( they are not nice in reality).They had to abuse some one ( which is me most of the time) to get rid of their negative emotions.
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Default Jul 11, 2022 at 03:29 PM
  #4
AzulOscuro,

Thank you for reading and supporting.

I think he's really good at putting on a front, especially for the length of an appointment. She has no idea how he really is. A lot of people don't. It seems like the ones who do just distance themselves, so no help or real consequences. He had an undiagnosed learning disorder growing up, so he has a lot of skills when it comes to covering things up or diverting attention from himself... It's second nature to him. He just use to not do it as a regular, functional adult.

To be honest, I have no idea why she wanted me at the appointment - maybe she already made up her mind that it's a marital problem? That she likes him so much that it must be me? One of his complaints is that he doesn't fit in with me and DD , so before the appointment, we made a list of habits that disrupt communication/time together. Things like his pressured speech/monologuing, or his inability to focus on other people or their needs. I thought maybe she would give him some ideas of ways to start changing those habits for better communication, but she wasn't interested in the list/reasons at all.

It floored me a bit that she said I need to approach him and initiate physical contact (like hugging and touching). She saw that as a barrier that I put up in response to his routine verbal raging, and so it's up to me? No requests were made of him to make efforts in that direction.

Maybe she can sense the detriment in him? Can see that he's not up to making the effort? I don't really know or care right now.

As far as the dementia I'm concerned he might have, it's really hard to get a diagnosis on it. The first symptom is often "my loved one turned into a jerk overnight.". There isn't a lot known about it, particularly in the US. From my understanding, most people don't get a diagnosis until mid stage when the memory parts of the brain start being affected. The only people I have encountered with early diagnosis either have a family history, or are well-to-do,with good insurance and access to the centers that specialize in it. I have none of that. It's terrible to pray that, if he has it, he progresses rapidly so that the insanity for me and DD will at least have a name. But I could be wrong and that's not what it is at all. Or it might progress slowly. I have noticed some odd memory/ confabulation issues lately, but again, he's really good at covering things up and explaining things away. BTW, he is in his early 50s, so nobody wants to assess him for dementia, especially since his memory seems intact, but this other type of dementia often starts much earlier.

As far as counseling for me, I don't have access right now. Not financially, and we live in a mental health dead zone. The only reason DH has gotten help is that he was so bad off in April- he admitted to everything except being suicidal and was unable to go to work for weeks.

Thanks again. It's nice just to be able to share this somewhere.
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Default Jul 11, 2022 at 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Mendingmysoul View Post
"He showtimes very well for other people.If we have company he will put on a perfect front for an hour and two and then will be so tired from the act that he can't function for the rest of the day "
I am all too well familiar with this kind of behavior. Does he gets abusive after the people have left ?
My parents behaved like that.Infact after the guests left,they had to regulate the frustration that develops after acting nice for long( they are not nice in reality).They had to abuse some one ( which is me most of the time) to get rid of their negative emotions.
Thanks Mendingmysoul. It's comforting to know other people get it. I'm sorry you have to know what that's like.

He usually gets very tired afterwards and just sleeps a lot. DD and I tend to avoid him and let him be. As I told the counselor "we've learned to walk on eggshells." Which she said was my problem... My reaction.
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Default Jul 11, 2022 at 05:38 PM
  #6
I too had to avoid them,tip toe around and tried to not trigger them.But they sometimes did abuse me afterwards no matter how careful I was.My mom never needed an excuse to punish me anyways.Sorry you are going through something similar with your husband.I know how it is.Hugs.

I am curious though..why do you think he has dementia?Specially at a relatively younger age?
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Default Jul 11, 2022 at 08:36 PM
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Mendingmysoul, I'm not totally convinced it's dementia versus say late onset bipolar (he's hypomanic tonight, but thinks he's just really happy).

Anyhow, the changes in him in 2018 were just crazy. It was like night and day, as though a complete stranger had taken over his body within a matter of days. I did a bit of research and frontal temporal dementia (ftd) came up- something I'd never heard of. It's known for having a "rage stage" in which people will go for months or years overreacting to the slightest thing. I could ask him to help me clean off the table for dinner and he'd go off screaming obscenities for five minutes. This was always something he did with a smile and a spring in his step prior. He also completely lost his empathy and became very selfish- again a complete 180 from how he had been, and these are also hallmarks of ftd. He also lost his ability to read social cues. He will come in and just start talking over everybody, or be completely unconcerned with what's going on in the room, as long as he can make himself the center of attention- not him as he was before. He lacks any of the really bad social faux pas, like hugging strangers or illegal activities. Ftd is apparently a common early onset dementia.

More recently, he has an innappriate affect. His facial expressions are strange, sometimes like a mask. He had trouble with his picture at work about a year ago. The photographer kept asking if he was going to smile, and he thought he was. Is that a dementia sign? He's lost a lot of cognitive ability too. Things he use to repair or build in an hour or two will take him the better part of a day or the weekend. I've noticed more and more things that look like memory drops too, but he seems to cover them. Like a week ago DD and I invited him to join us in a board game. We happily reset the game mid-game so he could join us right then. A few days later he got angry with me and contended that he had had to argue with me and fight to be included in the game. I called him on that and he backed down.

My dad had lewy body, and it doesn't look like that or Alzheimer's, but something seems so wrong here. I'm pretty sure I'd just be accused of lying if I told any of these things to a doctor. DH has even said himself that if something is really wrong with him, it won't be found until something catastrophic happens. I think he's probably right.

I'd appreciate any thoughts you have about the situation. It's nice to talk to someone who doesn't poopoo me away.
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Default Jul 12, 2022 at 07:08 AM
  #8
Has he seen a medical doctor? The cannot fix or change him. Focus on you and your child.
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Default Jul 12, 2022 at 07:45 AM
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Has he seen a medical doctor? The cannot fix or change him. Focus on you and your child.
Marie123, he has seen many medical doctors and had so many tests. So far they haven't found anything, but I suspect they aren't looking in the right direction, but he hit the end of what they could or would do for him at that point.

Thank you for your support, it means a lot.
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Default Jul 12, 2022 at 07:55 AM
  #10
Well, last night was hell. He had been mildly agro all evening, finally confronted me. It seems that he can't see that his mood towards me is what is chasing me off. I have not seen my happy, sweet guy in years. The only time he laughs now is when he does this bizaar hypomanic giggle.

Anyhow, he used what the counselor said against me. He'd been thinking about it... I had changed in the wake of his abuse and the changes in me were now the problem. The changes in me are the reason we are stuck. He might be right to some extent, but the fact remains that he was abusive, and is not a whole lot better now.

I pointed out to him that he has never apologize for the things he did. He said that he said in counseling that he felt embarrassed. I said that was how he felt and had nothing to do with how I felt. Again, seemingly a complete loss of empathy.

I am at my wits end. I guess I'm the problem now. Maybe I am. I spend a lot of time second guessing myself.
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Default Jul 12, 2022 at 10:03 AM
  #11
Don't go to another session. This is a losing game.

Concentrate on yourself and your daughter. Is he still working or did he lose his job due to cognitive difficulty. With dementia, there is something called "anosognosia" where he just plain cannot understand how impaired he is. Read about that.

If he can't recognize his deficits, he can't fix the problem. He won't see a doctor. Frankly, I would get out of the marriage because the last thing you want to do is become caregiver to someone who treats you poorly. Run away quick before he can't participate in a divorce.
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Default Jul 12, 2022 at 02:00 PM
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Don't go to another session. This is a losing game.

Concentrate on yourself and your daughter. Is he still working or did he lose his job due to cognitive difficulty. With dementia, there is something called "anosognosia" where he just plain cannot understand how impaired he is. Read about that.

If he can't recognize his deficits, he can't fix the problem. He won't see a doctor. Frankly, I would get out of the marriage because the last thing you want to do is become caregiver to someone who treats you poorly. Run away quick before he can't participate in a divorce.
Thanks for the affirmation, it means a lot. I felt apprehensive about the session, and do feel blindsided by what happened.

I shouldn't be, but am now worried that when I don't show up to counseling with him, I'm automatically the default for all problems.

I'm aware of anasognosia and suspect that's at play no matter what the underlying cause.

Thanks for all your thoughts.
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Default Jul 12, 2022 at 06:48 PM
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This therapist is a waste of time. I wouldn't go. IF you wanted to try therapy, perhaps couples counselling with a *different* impartial and competent therapist.

However, I am not sure if I read properly: IF your husband is acting in ways that make you fear for your child or yourself, then focus on your child and put her safety and/or well-being first. Leave.
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Default Jul 12, 2022 at 07:11 PM
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AzulOscuro,

Thank you for reading and supporting.

I think he's really good at putting on a front, especially for the length of an appointment. She has no idea how he really is. A lot of people don't. It seems like the ones who do just distance themselves, so no help or real consequences. He had an undiagnosed learning disorder growing up, so he has a lot of skills when it comes to covering things up or diverting attention from himself... It's second nature to him. He just use to not do it as a regular, functional adult.

To be honest, I have no idea why she wanted me at the appointment - maybe she already made up her mind that it's a marital problem? That she likes him so much that it must be me? One of his complaints is that he doesn't fit in with me and DD , so before the appointment, we made a list of habits that disrupt communication/time together. Things like his pressured speech/monologuing, or his inability to focus on other people or their needs. I thought maybe she would give him some ideas of ways to start changing those habits for better communication, but she wasn't interested in the list/reasons at all.

It floored me a bit that she said I need to approach him and initiate physical contact (like hugging and touching). She saw that as a barrier that I put up in response to his routine verbal raging, and so it's up to me? No requests were made of him to make efforts in that direction.

Maybe she can sense the detriment in him? Can see that he's not up to making the effort? I don't really know or care right now.

As far as the dementia I'm concerned he might have, it's really hard to get a diagnosis on it. The first symptom is often "my loved one turned into a jerk overnight.". There isn't a lot known about it, particularly in the US. From my understanding, most people don't get a diagnosis until mid stage when the memory parts of the brain start being affected. The only people I have encountered with early diagnosis either have a family history, or are well-to-do,with good insurance and access to the centers that specialize in it. I have none of that. It's terrible to pray that, if he has it, he progresses rapidly so that the insanity for me and DD will at least have a name. But I could be wrong and that's not what it is at all. Or it might progress slowly. I have noticed some odd memory/ confabulation issues lately, but again, he's really good at covering things up and explaining things away. BTW, he is in his early 50s, so nobody wants to assess him for dementia, especially since his memory seems intact, but this other type of dementia often starts much earlier.

As far as counseling for me, I don't have access right now. Not financially, and we live in a mental health dead zone. The only reason DH has gotten help is that he was so bad off in April- he admitted to everything except being suicidal and was unable to go to work for weeks.

Thanks again. It's nice just to be able to share this somewhere.

Wow! The picture you painted doesn’t seem very promising just now with the few help you, guys, can get. But, there’s always a hope. Ok. People are able to get and do the most imposible things. Don’t lose faith.

One thing is clear, the intervention of his therapist doesn’t sound as a great help. At the same moment she’s ignoring your view, she’s missing a considerable part of information.
I was thinking whether is possible for you to have a conversation with her (his therapist) in private. She should show interest in that possibility if not, I would dismiss completely the possibility to work with her. Of course, your husband seems to be great with her help and he will make his choice. Have you talked with him about this issue? Because, having a good professional who can help him is very important if he actually wants to manage his life and solve his problems.

Your words are full of affection when you talk about him in the past. Any clue about his change in behaviour, other than, having problems to cope with job? It’s seems as a very deep change. 💖💖💖

Don’t let yourself drive by other experiences. I’m referring to doctors. It’s worthy a try to explain them your suspicions about what he may have. At least, you tried it. Not all of them are so self-centered. Many listen to their patients. Who is gonna know better your husband’s symptoms than he, himself and you, his spouse. I would give it a try.

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Last edited by AzulOscuro; Jul 12, 2022 at 07:28 PM..
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Default Jul 13, 2022 at 08:31 AM
  #15
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Wow! The picture you painted doesn’t seem very promising just now with the few help you, guys, can get. But, there’s always a hope. Ok. People are able to get and do the most imposible things. Don’t lose faith.

One thing is clear, the intervention of his therapist doesn’t sound as a great help. At the same moment she’s ignoring your view, she’s missing a considerable part of information.
I was thinking whether is possible for you to have a conversation with her (his therapist) in private. She should show interest in that possibility if not, I would dismiss completely the possibility to work with her. Of course, your husband seems to be great with her help and he will make his choice. Have you talked with him about this issue? Because, having a good professional who can help him is very important if he actually wants to manage his life and solve his problems.

Your words are full of affection when you talk about him in the past. Any clue about his change in behaviour, other than, having problems to cope with job? It’s seems as a very deep change. 💖💖💖

Don’t let yourself drive by other experiences. I’m referring to doctors. It’s worthy a try to explain them your suspicions about what he may have. At least, you tried it. Not all of them are so self-centered. Many listen to their patients. Who is gonna know better your husband’s symptoms than he, himself and you, his spouse. I would give it a try.
Thank you for being so supportive and understanding the limitations of the situation.

I honestly think he has frontal lobe damage because many of his behavioral changes are things driven by that part of the brain. I honestly thought they would find a tumor or atrophy when they did the MRI, but that often won't show anything out of the normal until later - assuming he doesn't have a personality disorder or something like that that has run amock.

He and the therapist are chalking it all up to work stress and the stress of the tumor he had to deal with. But the changes took place before that. He told me before, and the counselor said at the appointment that he had experienced normal personality changes and I wasn't doing a good job accepting that people change.

She really has no idea and I honestly don't think she's going to take me seriously. I think I'm the one being labelled dramatic, when I've, in fact, been the voice of calm and reason.

Last night he was acting "normal", being polite, saying all the right things (but no empathetic connection, it's more like an act). When he gets like this, I feel like I'm losing my mind. Thank goodness I journal and can look back and see that he goes through episodes like this regularly- and my feeling like I'm going crazy because he puts on a bit of a normal front generally happens in July. July is also when he will seek a confrontation with me and generally say he hates me, or something like that. Things come to a hypomanic head every June and December for the last few years. And to lesser degrees at other points in the year. Can people with dementia cycle a little like bipolar? Maybe he was always bipolar and something else is making it worse? During the things I call hypomanic episodes sometimes his eyes will just bobble all over the place. He's not on drugs, but have wondered if that might indicate seizure activity or something. But hey, I'm not a professional and that symptom was just brushed off as well. As soon as he denies the hypomanic behavior, the symptoms I describe are disregarded as well.

One thing Ive noticed - not sure it's worth mentioning - is that he will often reuse big words that I use. Like if I use a word like "befuddled" he will use it back at me, usually within a few hours. As soon as he does it, he seems to realize he has and tries to justify the use of the word. At counseling, she asked me some questions about the initial rages and I told her that DD and I learned to deal with him by walking on eggshells. I know that isn't a healthy response, but it was how we survived at the time. The other night he kept saying that he was walking on eggshells- which is ridiculous since I never lose control. There's no reason for him to say he does that- he doesn't. Perhaps it's just projection, but it sometimes seems like he's covering something else. Like he can't engage, realises that he's incapable and covers by mirroring back something like that, which makes it my problem.

Even though he was being normal guy last night, I didn't spend much time with him. Worked in another room. For now I don't trust that he won't change very quickly, and I don't enjoy hs company as he is now. When he acts "normal", it feels like manipulation, like he knows he's alienated us and is trying to get back in (that's when I think about borderline).

Anyhow, as DD says- don't worry about it, he'll be someone different tomorrow.

Do wish I had a name because then maybe it would be easier to deal with until I can find a way to not have to.

Thanks for listening and feedback and support. You have no idea how much you've helped me thus far. Thank you!
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Default Jul 13, 2022 at 10:06 AM
  #16
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Originally Posted by ArmorPlate108 View Post
I honestly think he has frontal lobe damage because many of his behavioral changes are things driven by that part of the brain. I honestly thought they would find a tumor or atrophy when they did the MRI, but that often won't show anything out of the normal until later - assuming he doesn't have a personality disorder or something like that that has run amock.

He and the therapist are chalking it all up to work stress and the stress of the tumor he had to deal with. But the changes took place before that. He told me before, and the counselor said at the appointment that he had experienced normal personality changes and I wasn't doing a good job accepting that people change.
I didn't say in my post to you, but the behavior you describe and his seeming "ability" in other areas sound like frontotemporal dementia to me. Regarding the spinal tumor. Did he have chemo or surgery or both? What kind of tumor was it?

Last edited by Molinit; Jul 13, 2022 at 12:18 PM..
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Default Jul 13, 2022 at 11:56 AM
  #17
There has to be a reason for it all.I agree with you when you say professionals are unable to pinpoint the exact reason.There is something I would like to suggest.If no medical reasons have been found for this drastic change in behaviour, then would you consider the possibility of someone else in his life.The reason for apathy and abuse since 2018 being ..he may be having an affair or something?Is that a possibility?

Some men do that after a long happy marriage because they are bored and want some novelty.Specially around this age.There is something called middle age crisis.Around this age some are looking for greener pastures if you know what I mean.

I feel very sad that you are at this point in your life where you are struggling so much.Hugs and prayers.
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Default Jul 13, 2022 at 03:16 PM
  #18
I’m not at all qualified to advise but I would like to offer my support - I believe you, even if professionals so far haven’t. You know him better than anyone.

Misdiagnosis does happen, I have known someone with lifelong mental health issues be treated for a worsening of them when in fact they had a physical neurological issue (new one) and the psych meds worsened it. Any doctor or psych should be alert to this and they should listen to you and your daughter.

You do need to look after yourself in all of this, and your daughter. I hope there is somewhere (friend or relative) you can go for at least a small break from this? Or is he now requiring full time supervision?

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PS - I’ve volunteered with people living with dementia at various stages for years and never come across long bi-annual seasonal cycles as you describe, although sun Downing (confusion in the evening) is common.

Last edited by Discombobulated; Jul 13, 2022 at 04:06 PM..
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Default Jul 13, 2022 at 05:52 PM
  #19
I was also gonna say what @Discombobulated says. There are lots of people misdiagnosed, especially in Psychiatry. For obvious reasons.
It’s not a tangible part of Medicine.

It’s hard to say from here what he may be experiencing, even when we try it. We are not professionals
I’m wondering what I would do in your situation. And I would also do what you are doing, putting your daughter in the first place. In the sense that if I don’t see him receptive to fix things up accordingly my daughter’s needs and the well-going on the marriage, I would take my kid and have a distance.
Is he being receptive?

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Default Jul 13, 2022 at 08:20 PM
  #20
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I didn't say in my post to you, but the behavior you describe and his seeming "ability" in other areas sound like frontotemporal dementia to me. Regarding the spinal tumor. Did he have chemo or surgery or both? What kind of tumor was it?
Thanks. It's weirdly reassuring to hear someone say that. I don't post on ftd boards. Only read. I know the disease can present in many ways, and some days it feels like yes and other days no. Time will tell, but in the meantime, I appreciate everyone's input and just letting me vent.

The tumor was huge and rare, supposedly benign and on his spine. Found by accident despite that. No chemo, but VERY long surgery. Anesthesia can be a factor too, both w or w/o ftd.

Recently he said he felt worried that the tumor might be growing back (they didn't think it would). The last spinal MRI showed some tissue in the area where he's had increasing pain. They chalked it up to scar tissue, but that's another "time will tell.". Hes decided that the spine pain he's experiencing is because he's gained a couple of pounds. I don't know one way or another. I suggested he contact his neurosurgeons office if he was concerned, but he'll have another MRI before the end of the year anyway.
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