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RDMercer
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Default Jan 30, 2023 at 09:10 AM
  #281
Am I OK?

Well, Thanks for asking.

I'm not sure.

There were three days of text messages from my wife to realtors and me, saying the house is still for sale and we are all going to hear from her lawyer, that the house HAS to be sold this month.

I spent a few hours Sunday morning running numbers. With me covering everything as it is right now, not counting cutting her off the phone and insurance, I should be able to carry us all on my pay alone. It will be close. My oldest is in the basement apartment we are building for him now. He offered to pick up the phone bill, and possibly the electric bill, as well as split groceries. With that I'm more than OK. I have a buffer and can pay down credit. He says for him, that means he can still buy a dirt bike this summer

When I look at all her spending, her entire pay barely covered what she was spending on herself each month.

She told me for years about these powerful independent women who were working so hard, some of them working two or three jobs and paying their own way.

Well.... If she stays on her own, that will be her. I told her, these women are strong but no one wants to work three jobs to live in an apartment.

Sometime, probably soon, reality is going to hit. She is going to have to start asking people for money. Her "sisters for life" friends that talked her into all this probably aren't going to let her stay with them.

Her new single friends also told her things like, "You don't need a husband. You can always find men to do things for you. It's easy." I don't think she understands what that means. Men don't fix your car and work on your place and help you move furniture out of the goodness of their hearts. Maybe the first time you ask. After that, there's pay, or there's other expectations.

As for moving ahead with a separation, I can't afford a lawyer AND support the kids, so.... That's that. I've stopped all my legal proceedings.

She also took our youngest to see her new apartment and the new furniture she purchased, and the condo she is buying. She's been out with friends to restaurants and bars quite a lot. I think she's burning through money.

She's going to land back home some time. I'm betting by next month she won't be able to afford her rent. I'm quite apprehensive of what that will look like.

Me and the kids are doing good right now. I'm happy every day. I love being home. I love hearing them laugh, I love working on projects with them, doing homework, making meals.

I get a lot of anxiety about her coming back. I actually get sick thinking about waiting for her to get angry, and the convoluted thinking that goes with it.

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Default Jan 30, 2023 at 09:44 AM
  #282
The other thing is, once she is out of her apartment, where does all that new stuff go?

I offered her first pick of any of our furniture. I offered to take her name off the utilities so she could get set up. She refused and told me I'd hear from her lawyer.

Well, the bills come due on those things, and they aren't in my name.

That's that, I guess.
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Default Jan 30, 2023 at 12:18 PM
  #283
So you plan on staying in the home with your sons and figured you can afford it. Your wife has moved out so she can’t really demand anything. She can scream and yell and threaten yet I think the lawyer friend you talked to is correct in that she can’t force you to give up your family home just because she feels entitled. Let her pay for a lawyer. It’s very possible she is trying to bully you into getting her way.

It’s not surprising she is hitting the bars with her drinking buddies. She will find out the hard way these are not real friends.

I hope you cancelled any credit cards she can rack up debt on as well as any bank accounts she can deplete.

Last edited by Open Eyes; Jan 30, 2023 at 12:32 PM..
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Default Jan 30, 2023 at 03:27 PM
  #284
Alcohol is a depressant so abusing alcohol brings a person down into further depressed states. Consuming alcohol leads to many bad choices and the person slowly loses more and more control over their lives. An the abuse of alcohol and Xanex is worse because Xanex is also a depressant. If the person is on antidepressants it’s bad to drink and all antidepressants and antipsychotics say right on the label not to drink alcohol.

Sadly you will probably see more disturbing mood changes in your wife. You don’t really want her exposing your two sons to her confusing mood swings and bouts of anger. The fact that you stress now about her showing up at the house is revealing how her behaviors have been actually traumatizing you. This is what your sons have been experiencing that is very unhealthy for them to the point where they fear her and want to be away from her.

IMHO she should not be allowed to enter your home and they should not have to worry about being exposed to her.

Last edited by Open Eyes; Jan 30, 2023 at 04:29 PM..
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Default Jan 30, 2023 at 03:56 PM
  #285
I think you're right. But I'm not thinking about the drinking. I'm thinking about the being alone. Gosh, she ruminated so much as it was. Now, what does she have to do when she's not at work?

Her "sisters for life" can't be with her at all hours.

She's alone a lot.
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Default Jan 30, 2023 at 04:01 PM
  #286
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Originally Posted by RDMercer View Post
I think you're right. But I'm not thinking about the drinking. I'm thinking about the being alone. Gosh, she ruminated so much as it was. Now, what does she have to do when she's not at work?

Her "sisters for life" can't be with her at all hours.

She's alone a lot.
Well it’s not particularly wrong or unacceptable to be alone. People find things to do. Not everyone is partnered. Plus it’s much better to be alone than in a bad relationship. Now she does have to split child care time, but I guess it’s a bit different where her kids are older. I wonder why are you concerned with her being alone? Why is it an issue for you?

You wife is a royal pain and made everyone’s life extremely difficult, but it comes through your posts (correct me if I am wrong) that women need men to survive and cannot manage without men (preferably husbands) doing stuff for them. It’s a bit outdated. What do gay women or single women do when they need stuff done?

“Move furniture and fix cars”? I mean I am married but my husband and I pay our dealership to get cars fixed if need to, we aren’t car mechanics. My husband is RN, isn’t trained to fix cars. And we have movers moving our stuff. My daughter and son in law are moving to a new house this weekend. Their movers not only move stuff, they pack too. Single women do the same, fix cars in dealerships and collision shops and hire movers. When I was single no random men did things for me but I also didn’t sit around. Stuff gets done.

Having said that I get it that your particular wife is unable to manage. But that’s not a general rule of life that one must have a husband to get stuff done. Maybe your wife will come back home because she can’t manage. But that’s who she is. I find it bizarre that without separation agreement and filing for divorce people just move in and out renting and buying. It was all done so backwards. She makes no sense

Last edited by divine1966; Jan 30, 2023 at 04:15 PM..
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Default Jan 30, 2023 at 04:43 PM
  #287
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I think you're right. But I'm not thinking about the drinking. I'm thinking about the being alone. Gosh, she ruminated so much as it was. Now, what does she have to do when she's not at work?

Her "sisters for life" can't be with her at all hours.

She's alone a lot.
She wasn’t really present when she lived at home, she isolated in her room remember? Then she comes out and bread crumbs you. That’s not love and you are used to being an enabler. She isn’t worried about you.
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Default Jan 30, 2023 at 05:54 PM
  #288
I think a lot was read into what I wrote that wasn't intended.

There are several prominent people in my life who are women who endured and overcame huge obstacles on their own. Some of them raised their families alone. I've supported and mentored tradeswomen on the job. I work with educated accomplished women, and have been told repeatedly how they feel treated as equals by me. I have recommended women for positions of responsibility above me, even if I have seniority, if they are capable.

I'm not implying women need men.

My wife has berated me for my uselessness for years. My wife has had a lot to say to me about how much she contributes, whether financially, child rearing, meals, house work, etc, and how poorly I contribute by comparison.

I believed her. I wrecked myself for years to do more, and apologized I wasn't accomplishing more in those domains.

Well, one month apart, and I'm doing ok. And I think she's realizing maybe this wasn't a well thought out idea.

As for what's wrong with being alone... Nothing.

But she isolated herself a lot, and those times spent ruminating effected her thinking. I imagine it's worse now. She assumed the kids would be with her at least 50-50, despite them telling her no. They don't trust her, won't drive with her, and don't want to live with her. And they are old enough to choose. She has about 2-3 hrs a week of interaction with the kids.

Her insistence that her friends were her family and that she was better off relying on them than me is now also being tested. I did a lot to support her in every way. The women who encouraged her to join them on the dating scene and leave me are now her circle.

Again... No, women don't need men. I was told I was useless and her friends told her it was easy to exploit men for free help. She seems naive that women can be exploited and preyed on as well.

Again... Nothing wrong with living alone. But I worry about how it's effecting her. I know this isn't what she was expecting. I worry FOR her with that thinking, and I worry ABOUT how it's going to emerge.

I don't hate her, I'm not angry at her. She was my partner at one time. I wish all this was different.

I'm sorry that what I said caused this misinterpretation.

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Default Jan 30, 2023 at 06:14 PM
  #289
I understood you and feel you are being manipulated and put down intentionally. I believe you are a good person and are very responsible.

I know you care and worry about your wife, but please know she doesn’t care about you and wants to get what she can from you.

You can’t change her character, you never could. You deserve someone who will respect and care about you.
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Default Jan 30, 2023 at 06:20 PM
  #290
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Originally Posted by RDMercer View Post
I think a lot was read into what I wrote that wasn't intended.

There are several prominent people in my life who are women who endured and overcame huge obstacles on their own. Some of them raised their families alone. I've supported and mentored tradeswomen on the job. I work with educated accomplished women, and have been told repeatedly how they feel treated as equals by me. I have recommended women for positions of responsibility above me, even if I have seniority, if they are capable.

I'm not implying women need men.

My wife has berated me for my uselessness for years. My wife has had a lot to say to me about how much she contributes, whether financially, child rearing, meals, house work, etc, and how poorly I contribute by comparison.

I believed her. I wrecked myself for years to do more, and apologized I wasn't accomplishing more in those domains.

Well, one month apart, and I'm doing ok. And I think she's realizing maybe this wasn't a well thought out idea.

As for what's wrong with being alone... Nothing.

But she isolated herself a lot, and those times spent ruminating effected her thinking. I imagine it's worse now. She assumed the kids would be with her at least 50-50, despite them telling her no. They don't trust her, won't drive with her, and don't want to live with her. And they are old enough to choose. She has about 2-3 hrs a week of interaction with the kids.

Her insistence that her friends were her family and that she was better off relying on them than me is now also being tested. I did a lot to support her in every way. The women who encouraged her to join them on the dating scene and leave me are now her circle.

Again... No, women don't need men. I was told I was useless and her friends told her it was easy to exploit men for free help. She seems naive that women can be exploited and preyed on as well.

Again... Nothing wrong with living alone. But I worry about how it's effecting her. I know this isn't what she was expecting. I worry FOR her with that thinking, and I worry ABOUT how it's going to emerge.

I don't hate her, I'm not angry at her. She was my partner at one time. I wish all this was different.

I'm sorry that what I said caused this misinterpretation.

RDMercer
Oh don’t be sorry, we are just having a discussion.

I think perhaps your wife does need to hit the rock bottom with realizing that treating others badly, how she treated you and the kids, will result with them distancing themselves.

And being strong and independent doesn’t mean find random men to do things for you.

She needs life lesson. Women who exploit men eventually all fall face down (same with men exploiting women). It isn’t viable long term plan. She’ll find out pretty soon. Also honestly you did so much for her. She is very naive that she’ll find men willing to take her on and do things for her. Her friends teach her stuff that’s not even realistic. This is 2023. Not 1823. Most men have no interest in helpless women. Those times are over

Will see if she decides she needs to come home. It’s bizarre she rented a place she might not be able to pay rent on. Very strange. Naive woman thought you’d sell a house in a hurry. One should never rent or buy places they can’t afford on their own
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Default Jan 30, 2023 at 06:20 PM
  #291
She devalues you to control you. It’s not a healthy relationship for you.
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Default Jan 31, 2023 at 01:44 AM
  #292
The more I learn about these other women your wife spends time with the more selfish and narcissistic they sound. It’s wrong to “use” anyone for personal gain. It’s concerning that your wife has grown comfortable with lying. However, that tends to be present with alcoholism addictions.
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Default Jan 31, 2023 at 10:20 AM
  #293
Narcissistic individuals have insecure attachment issues. They will reach out when “they” need something but shut you out when you have needs. They are more apt to have temper tantrums and will lie about what they can actually do. They tend to exaggerate and have an entitled character. Many do develop addictions due to their ongoing deep insecurities.

You cannot fix them no matter how much you care. They like to blame others for their insecurities and often like to practice this anger and blame with others. You will always feel you are not good enough and the relationship problems are your fault. This crazy feeling you describe is typical of those in relationships with individuals that have attachment issues.
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Default Feb 01, 2023 at 10:42 AM
  #294
One of the things narcissists and addicts do is they need a drama feed every day. This is what makes living with them so exhausting and puts their partner in constant hyper-vigilance. This kind of presence leads to anxiety and depression which is what you and your sons have been struggling with. There is no sense of peace and part of the codependent development comes from a constant effort to have a sense of peace. It is much like having a baby in your home that is constantly crying about something, always needing attention.

At least with your wife out of the home there is SOME sense of peace and quiet. Have you noticed that a little yet? In reading your thread I see all the red flags including your uttering of feeling crazy. What is concerning to me is your thoughts of not wanting to exist. This means you are emotionally exhausted and it’s important you understand where that is coming from. The narcissist always stands out and are at the top of the list and it typically starts first thing in the morning AND they are NOT self aware enough to see this about themselves. They are terrible at relationships because everything revolves around them and their need to maintain their illusion.

For alcoholics, they go to the bar and consume alcohol and sit and wait for someone they can snatch into their world of DRAMA. These women your wife has joined up with? They go to the bars hunting and swear they can find men to use. These are individuals that USE. They also do this on social media. If you think about your relationship it’s always been about HER.

That’s not a relationship, that’s a prison.

If you spend time at an alanon meeting you will meet others whom like you are stressed and worn out. They are people just like you that loved someone that literally drained them. You will learn that alcoholism is not what you thought. Many alcoholics actually function and have jobs. They are masters at hiding their addiction.

It’s important your sons both learn about this because they both have been affected. Your oldest knows and clearly has reached out for help. And that man you sat with who knew, well it’s not really hidden like you thought. Your sons share their stress with their friends.
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Default Feb 03, 2023 at 06:29 AM
  #295
@RDMercer how are things going?
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Default Feb 04, 2023 at 02:51 PM
  #296
I have a few issues.

1. My memory for difficult times is short.
2. I don't get offended or hurt easily.
3. I assume I'm the source of most problems.

That all leads me second guessing myself a lot, and wondering how to get her back.

My oldest got angry at me this morning, basically saying they need leadership to move forward as a family.

There are so many things I enjoyed about my wife in the good times that I'm dealing with a lot of longing and loss.

But, better than 2 weeks ago.

I'm thankful I found this site, and thankful you are checking in on me.

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Default Feb 04, 2023 at 04:12 PM
  #297
Sounds like you have not learned to value yourself enough so you
Assume problems are your fault. This is a codependent mindset that you need to work on. The good news is how you are becoming aware of where your weaknesses are.

Yes, your sons do need to know how to have boundaries with your wife and develop some skills to better deal with her.
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Default Feb 04, 2023 at 04:37 PM
  #298
It’s not that you have a bad memory, it’s more that you take a path of least resistance. This comes from your history where you were taught to be codependent and not rock the boat.

I am wondering if your sons don’t want to have to stay with your wife and want to know how they can say it and say why. They should not have to spend time with her if she bully’s them.

Last edited by Open Eyes; Feb 04, 2023 at 06:57 PM..
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Default Feb 04, 2023 at 06:26 PM
  #299
Taught not to rock the boat...

Yes, absolutely true.
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Default Feb 04, 2023 at 06:57 PM
  #300
You sound like Charlie Brown when Lucy holds the football for him to kick. Hope springs eternal. But i remember my father as betraying me for his own selfish reasons.
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