Grieving my marriahe

This is so confusing right now.

My oldest is a couple years older than I've let on before. He is out of high school and is working now. He's a good young man.

My wife is clear, she wants to fix up the house and part ways in April.

Our son has been so, so upset for months now. He is avoiding being home. Being home affects him physically, as he becomes sick to his stomach. Yesterday he told me he needed to know fully what is going on. Specifically, he wanted to know if he and I could get a place together and share costs for a few years. He says he knows I will need financial support, that my income won't cover two households.

He said, he needs to have a plan to feel like he is moving forward because otherwise the depression and anxiety is becoming overwhelming. If I can't help him define a plan, then he has to start thinking about building one with his girlfriend, but he doesn't think moving in together at such a young age is a good idea.

What should I have done? What would you have done in my situation?

I told him I don't want to get divorced. I told him that if me and mom are staying together, big things have to happen in a short period of time. I told him I am thinking and planning more than I am telling him. I would like to see things change and us all stay together as a family BUT I also can't be suddenly without a plan if she sticks to her plan to leave in April. I told him I am depressed about this, but that I am figuring out how to support him and his siblings if mom leaves, because we need stability. If we stay together, part of what has to change is that Mom has to show a strong effort towards the kids, because I can't expect the kids to swallow all this and not be validated by their mom. Mom has said and done some hurtful things towards the kids.

My son disclosed some of this to his mom, and she accused me of: turning the kids against her, building alliances and dividing the family, building a plan to leave while pretending to want to stay together, telling me I am not co-parenting with her, and I am not treating her like a partner. There's no hope for any future because she can't trust me with anything.

And this is the thing.... All those things have a some truth in them. I am doing all those things, and I feel immense guilt about it. But I didn't create this situation.

I can't end up homeless because of it, and I can't leave a very young man with no place to go, and risk him making a desperate decision. HE MATTERS TOO. I can't end up in a way that the kids don't have stability.

It's like... there's truth to so much of what she says to me and the faults she finds with me, and it is completely removed from any greater context. Her contribution, the things she did to cause me to HAVE to speak to our son like that, that doesn't matter. She is totally blameless.

RDM

Your wife has announced her plans. My advice is to figure out yours, and not allow yourself to be paralyzed by hope or your desire not to get divorced.

Do you have an attorney? I think you should.

It must have been hard to hear her announce her plans to leave while simultaneously criticizing you for considering doing the exact same thing.

It also must have been hard to hear her say that you are not treating her like a partner (when she already announced, and long made clear, that she isn't one).

If your son is out of high school then he no longer is obligated to be parented, much less co-parented, by anyone. He is his own man, and his offer to you is completely within bounds. What do you think of his offer? Keeping in mind that you need an actual plan for April.

(Be mindful in the future that anything you tell your kids can get back to your wife.)

In general, I urge you to ignore her accusations and guilt trips.

(She, not you, turned the kids against her.)

She's always going to blame you for everything.

How is your daughter doing? What will happen to her in April?

My oldest is pursuing a trade through a union.

He'll be making a very good wage by January.

His plan.... We buy a place together, fix it, sell it. Repeat. Build a financial cushion. He said, "I've got money, but you have a credit history. We need to do this together."

Buy places close to younger kids school so that younger kid can stay with us and not change schools.

Younger kid asked him if we could all live together, because doesn't want to live with Mom, and doesn't want him to move away yet.

Oldest asked me if we live like this for five years, until the youngest is out of school.

I'm exploring ways to generate more income. I appreciate my son's offer, and have told him so, and told him I don't want him to feel he has to take on this degree of responsibility. I'm the Dad. It's my role, and he has a place with me. He's not expected to sacrifice himself for us.

I love my wife. I still "see" her through all this. But she's pushed this so far there's no easy return. She told the kids her plans, including April departure, over a month ago.

But me trying to figure out a way forward and talking to the oldest about it is wrong??? Even though he was intears worried about the future on his own.

You guys know there are two rules for success.

1) Don't reveal everything you know.


RDM

I'm not very familiar with your situation. That said, and forgive me if I'm overstepping boundaries - what is the reason you're talking to your children about their mother? Are you trying to encourage your children to take your side, or "see" your side of things? If so, doing that is neither wise nor fair. Please. Please stop asking your children to take sides against their mother. If you're listening to them - great. If you're telling them - no, just no.

Frankly, I've seen a lot of men post on this forum about how rotten their marriage has become and almost all of it is their wife's fault. I've been married for 40 years and in my experience it really does take two to tango. A lot of wives take the blame for finally becoming bitter and resentful, or for seeking out other relationships, after they've put up with hurt and neglect from their husbands for years.

And I would be very cautious about the "leave your abusive wife right now" advice. Perhaps it's a smart step to take - but maybe it is not. No one but you really knows.

Just some quick thoughts.

Actually @*Beth* his children have been coming to him concerned about their mother’s behaviors. It’s best to read what is shared first.

Hi Beth,

OP here.

This is a long history of health and mental health issues. And broken trust. I was an *****. Ten years ago I damaged my marriage. My wife found I'd been viewing P0rnography. No further indiscretions than viewing. No flirting with anyone ever. No texting or chatting with anyone ever. My wife had health issues and was clear After we were married that she didn't want sex. I used that as an outlet.

It was wrong. I was wrong. What I did hurt her and I know it. Deeply. I never ever thought it would cause her so much pain. It's not a "mistake". I did wrong, and I own it, and committed to her it wouldn't happen again.

I've posted on here for years trying to get it right in my marriage.

I said, and will still say, I love her, and see good in her.

I've felt insane, especially in recent years. I can't explain the irritability, sudden mood changes, personality changes, memory gaps and outright fabrication of stories to fill in the gaps.

I can't explain how shes really turned away from the kids.

She tells me she feels constant anger from me. No, I'm not angry, but probably constant tension. I've been walking on eggshells, and have been the sole income, and done most of the parenting for a long time.

In the past year our kids began to really breakdown from this stuff. They were experiencing a lot of bad things with Mom too.

I have a family member who was a social worker. I called her because she lives far away, and voiced my frustration. She questioned me a ton then asked if my wife drinks regularly. Yes, daily. She said she has the symptoms of B1 alcohol dementia, which is correctable but can become permanent.

I tried to talk to her about this and got nowhere.

I finally drew the kids into it after my wife told me, in front of the kids twice, that she wanted a divorce.

That's when I began more openly talking to the kids, and we approached her together. I was scared for her brain. Terrified.

I will say for years I've questioned myself and my intentions. Am I trying to look like the good guy to the kids? Or am I accepting Mom's anger so much I look like the bad guy to them? Am I failing to validate THEIR experiences with their mom, and some are pretty bad? Am I fully treating my wife like a partner? Am I promoting family unity. Am I acting with inclusion in mind. I self examine a lot.

Her thinking has become more disjointed inrecent years, and really unusual behaviors, and totally avoidant of any blame or responsibility for how things are. There's years of lots of yelling and swearing at me behind closed doors.

Tonight, now, I feel insane, again.

This is, let's say, an occasion in our home. Holiday, birthday, anniversary... I won't say what.

Me and youngest are home, Mom was out all day. Youngest is sick. I have one arm taped to the elbow from an injury. Today I did 3 loads laundry, on hangers, cleaned entry way, vacuumed, emptied garbage and recycling, made a special meal and dessert, cleaned kitchen after, got a gift, card, and flowers.

And then got an earful. In front of our youngest, for not getting enough cleaning done, and not spending more on the gift. A gift for someone who's divorcing me.

The kid began saying, That's not true. Dad did a lot today. Mom doubled down about how demanding I am of her for household chores. Kid said, That's not true. Dad let's you rest and asks us for help because you're sick, and tells us to be quiet for Mom, and Dad does house chores and homework with us all the time.

She had more to say about me, and then I wrecked it all
By saying, You drank to a point you've had big memory gaps. Your perceptions of things aren't right.

This is the third time this month I've been yelled at in front of this kid for failing to get enough done in a day.

.My wife is currently saying (right now) there's no possible future because I drew the kids into things, and I did so again tonight.

There it is. I'm not perfect at all. I'm human, and I'm reasonable, and I'm solid and reliable and a good father, and I've tried for a long time to be a good husband and I'm breaking. I said too much tonight.

The times I didn't say anything against her at all. Just took it. Tonight was too much, and I over reacted.

Beth, you said

Are you trying to encourage your children to take your side, or "see" your side of things?

No. I haven't done that.

Recently the kids began talking to me a lot. They said they didn't think I'd listen to them say stuff against Mom.

I have felt insane and on eggshells for years. Unprovoked, the kids said a bunch of stuff that made me go...

Wow. I'm not crazy. Someone else sees it too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Open Eyes Actually @*Beth* his children have been coming to him concerned about their mother’s behaviors. It’s best to read what is shared first.

Thank you, OE. I did read the OP for this thread. It seems that others who posted here were familiar with the ongoing situation. I apologize...I'm not familiar with what's been going on prior to this thread.

I am so, so sorry, @RDMercer, that you and your family are going through this agony.

I apologize - I was not familiar with your history. That your wife is an alcoholic makes a real mess of everything, I am absolutely sure. Again, I'm sorry if you've already mentioned this, but are you and the kids in therapy? If not, would you be able to do that? I am not one who believes that therapy can cure all, but when it comes to a situation like yours, especially when children or young adults are involved, I do think that therapy can offer a place for all involved (at least, those who are willing to go) to be heard and perhaps provide some solutions, too.

When did your wife start using alcohol?

This is very important! Your children need to be heard. When everyone is walking on egg shells as to not upset a parent they are learning their needs and feelings are not important. Your wife’s mental health issues and her addiction to alcohol has her husband and children living around her very toxic condition.

Also @RDMercer you need to let go of the guilt you have about having normal sexual needs that your wife would not engage. Your wife should have gotten help for that years ago. Instead, it sounds like she chose alcohol as an escape and became increasingly abusive.

I really struggle with thinking of her as an alcoholic. She was never falling down drunk. She got into the practice of sipping wine throughout the day about 8.5 years ago. She said it helped with pain. She has chronic pain including nerve injuries. It reached a point of 1-2 bottles a day.

Things really, really began to change during Covid, because that's when I first realized how much she was in bed, how much I was doing, and how she was more focused on her stress, anxiety, and mental health than the kids'.

I confronted her on it and she went to the winning argument - you watched p0rn. I said, yes, I did, and we've covered that for years. But this is something big that you have to change.

Once I quit letting her win arguments because of my past, we began growing further apart.

By late 2020 we began to see personality changes. By late 2021 there were big memory gaps that were filled in with made-up things.

Arguments became moving targets.

Recently she found fault with me for not cleaning. I pointed out I spent 2 full days in the garage with an injured arm, fixing a car we needed for Monday. That became, you spend more time cleaning the garage than the house. I wasn't cleaning the garage. That became, I don't care about your hobbies. I'm not a hobbyist. We commute with that car. That became, your only contributions can't be in the garage. I had done 2 loads laundry the night before, and had gotten groceries and made suppers for the next 4 days that day. That became, why are you always coming at me, tearing me apart and pointing out my shortcomings. I literally never said a WORD of comparison or anything negative toward her. That became, it must be wonderful to be perfect. Then she locked herself in the bedroom.

These exchanges happen in front of the kids.

The irritability, the irrationality, she wasn't like this before.

Again, I'm asking if you and the kids are in family therapy?

Lots of alcoholics manage to function and are not acting like a falling down drunk.

Also, not all alcoholics drink every day. There are those that binge drink.

Also, alcoholics can get very good at making others believe they are at fault so they can continue drinking and concealing their addiction very much like a narcissist which is why it’s called a narcissistic disease.

That being said, it’s a progressive disease and eventually causes damage.

We are not in family therapy. We are each in individual counselling.

I requested, repeatedly in the past year, that we all go to family counselling. My wife refused. She has felt that I have turned the kids against her. I would not go with the kids without her because that would solidify to her that we are polarized and not unified. My goal has always been to keep her and be a family.

Again, I understand how she feels like that. I have worried about saying anything negative, ever, about their mom. I have also worried that when they came to me and asked why mom wasn't around more, why she was ignoring them, etc., that I conversely failed to validate the kids.

Our oldest has received some of mom's anger too, and has dealt with the moving target arguments. He won't be alone around her anymore because he's scared of how she will misinterpret or misrepresent things he says or does.

Things reached that point back in February. It culminated with him asking his mom to stop the car, and he got out and walked the last mile to home.

As my wife has been "caught" more and more, things have escalated here, and her behavior has been more "off".

When I say "caught", I mean, for example, presenting to her the things that were going on at the start of Covid, and she couldn't deny them. She threw the p0rn card at me, and I acknowledged it, but walked past it. I mean, me saying she can't spend 30+ hours a week on the phone with her friends in the evening because it impedes on our family, her denying it and me showing her the phone bill records. I mean, my oldest saying to her the very same things I had been saying behind closed doors then getting out of the car.

There has been increasing deflection and self victimization whenever she is caught in a fact.

Example - the Sunday night accusation of me not doing enough. Me pointing out all I did, and it being re-told as if I tore her apart for how much I was doing and how little she was doing. Any neutral comment I make to counter her fault finding is regarded as an attack on her.

She wasn't like this.

What you are describing is a classic example of how this disease affects the family. Your wife is not going to like it when you and the children finally admit there is a problem. Your wife would prefer to continue living in denial. It’s the nature of the disease.

You and your children are suffering because of this. You should all be getting help and support. Many who attend their first Alanon meeting end up speechless and in tears. I experienced this myself years ago. It’s scary facing the truth!

No child should be forced to live with an unhealthy parent like this. Your youngest is AFRAID to be left alone with his mother, this is not fair to him. He does NOT have the life skills to handle this.

It's my oldest that doesn't want to be alone with mom, because he is scared that what he says will be misinterpreted or misrepresented. He gets up early, leaves, comes home to eat and shower, hides in his room or the garage, then goes out for the evening with friends every day.

Back in the first week of September is when the kids had a big blow-out with her, and when I voiced my concerns about her drinking actually affecting her thinking. She stopped, first day.

She may have 2 drinks a week since then.

That is another reason why I didn't see it as alcoholism.

The kids are looking to me for stability and a plan.

IT HAS MATTERED TO ME TO NOT "SPLIT" OUR FAMILY AND TURN THEM AGAINST THEIR MOM. THIS IS KILLING ME. I'VE BEEN PLACED IN A SITUATION WHERE I HAVE TO CHOOSE, AND AM QUESTIONING ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING I EVER SAID TO THE KIDS THAT MAY HAVE CAUSED THIS, AND ALSO QUESTIONING THAT I DIDN'T VALIDATE AND SUPPORT THEM MORE.

Last night the youngest told me.... I'm not living with Mom. Weekends, and visits for sure, but not living. You're the one that makes meals, gets me to the bus, and does homework with me. Mom doesn't deserve to get more money for me living with her when you do so much to look after us.

The day she told the kids she was divorcing me was when my oldest first asked to get a place and share costs with me, so that the rest of us would have some stability.

This stuff from them is UNPROMPTED.

Back in August me and youngest went on a road trip, and the kid cried for hours in the car about stuff they were seeing Mom do, and how they felt. Again, UNPROMPTED.

My wife talks about my relentless arguments late at night with her. I asked her what we argued about. She won't tell me, just that I tore her apart for hours. I said, we argued about where we lived, her career, her issues with schooling, her issues with my family, and a ton of other stuff that was an issue for her. She agrees we argued about those things. I've asked; why would I bring up those topics, and since I get up at 6:15 every day, why would I pick late night fights?

So that has become our history, revised. I apparently picked all those late night fights about topics that she had issues with. WTF.

Last year the oldest kid asked me to sleep in a different room because the fighting was too emotionally damaging for them and affecting their health, and preventing sleep. I asked my oldest what he was hearing. He said, Dad, you are louder, and you get defensive. But it's always her coming at you for something, and her cussing you out.