Grieving my marriahe

RD, I've posted before as to how much I relate to your situation. So much of what you write applies directly to my life as well. It's exhausting.

I also believe my DH is borderline, but more recently have been considering covert passive aggressive narcissist - or maybe somewhere in between those two things.

About a year ago I realized I was so invested in him, his life, his problems, my want for something that might not be (the guy I remember to go back to being that guy), that I'd literally lost track of my life. Someone told me that living with someone like my husband, it is very difficult not to end up codependent. Particularly true if you are a loving empathetic person. I've since learned the power of detachment among other things and life is so much better, at least for me. It still stinks a lot of days, but at least I have my equilibrium most of the time. I'm still compassionate towards him, I just don't get sucked into his garbage and let whatever he throws out to remain in his space. Last night he made a very provakative comment that I was not worth talking to- I just let it slide, the way you would with a tantrumming four year old. I ain't picking up what he's putting down, kwim? The more I do this, the more he seems to try very hard to go back to more of the person he use to be. Weird huh? Not really. Borderline behaviors when they fear they are no longer in control of you.

I don't think your kids would be better off elsewhere. You are a very attuned person and there is no one better to be there for them than you. I just finished reading a book about covert passive aggressive narcissists and there's some talk in there about actually sharing with and involving children at an age appropriate level. The concept being that the CPAN parent is not normal and the children should not be left to think that what the disordered parent does is normal or acceptable. This has been my thought with my kid all along. A few days ago she was talking to me about him and I made an offhand comments that sometimes I think he starts acting nice when he wants something. She rolled her eyes and said. "uh huh," as though she's figured that out long ago. Anyway, given the oddity of your individual situation, no one else is going to be able to provide the guidance that you can. For me, that guidance also involves getting me healthier and emotionally separated from him to show her that I am an individual deserving of respect and appropriate treatment and a life of my own. Don't forget that you deserve that too.
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Anyway brother, keep on keeping on, and do take care of yourself. As much as you love your wife, you should love yourself even more. You deserve it.

Hi,

She went and stayed with a friend for a few days. It was really good.

Kids had good experiences at school and work. We put up lights, practiced driving, ate together, played together.

My wife came back today. The place feels different.

She and I spoke, and she made very solid logical points, and questioned decisions I had made, and made good sense and good points. That unsettled me. She made points of places I made mistakes. I was wrong for some things I've done recently. She smart, inciteful, and pointed out parenting mistakes Id made, and couple mistakes.

She didn't even acknowledge any of the questions of points I raised to her. Not that she didn't answer them.
She didnt even acknowledge I asked them. Not one.

I tried again later. She rolled her eyes, said there was no hope for us and walked away.

I feel so shaken and so insane.

I feel like I've been too emotional and riled the kids up jn a negative way, and this cluster is all my fault, again.

I'm questioning why I let the kids get the run of me so badly, and why I listened to them about their mother.

I feel sick, and I feel like I'm supposed to apologize profusely and try to get her back.

The kids are in their rooms not interacting with each other either of us.

(((RD))). That sounds like what they call "crazy-making." It's not unusual, and it's not you. From my experience, it's about control. Who has it. My DH is very skilled at turning everything around on me. As I've become more aware of his tactics, I've learned to not play into them.

Dh and I are on different pages. I thought he was on an "us" page where we are working toward the same end. Now I realize that his interest isn't in having a cohesive family, it's getting his needs met at any cost. It's most obvious when he puts his needs above DD's. When he priorities his dumb drama over her needs, it becomes so clear. He is a broken kid, and more importantly, i am not his mother. Perhaps this applies to your wife too 🙁

We very much enjoy when dh is away. It is so calm and fun and there is no drama. There's a guy on YouTube who refers to this as the "drama sh**storm." Hopefully you can refer back to your time alone with the kids and see how much more functional that time seemed. And then see the storm she brings with her.

I mentioned a book a few posts ago and it might help you understand the dynamic that might be at play a little bit better. We love them, we try talking, begging, explaining, you name it, and we just get beat up over and over, and confused too. I've developed some better boundaries and quit trying to explain or get him on board with me. It's helped a lot. I feel bad for you because I feel like you and I are on the same road and I know how sick I feel at times.

I don't think it's you though. She, like my DH, has a lot more to gain by making you think her issues are actually yours.

You and your kids had several days of normal family life when she was away.

What did she say to compliment you about doing so well at taking care of the kids?

You listened to them because they shared their honest experience of her with you.

It sounds like now, though, you are tempted to turn your back on them in order to again chase the mirage of a relationship with your wife.

To again be told incessantly and relentlessly that you, and only you, are the problem.

She came home after you had a peaceful time with your children and proceeded to make you feel like crap. She is the bad parent not you.

You are so stuck in her dysfunction you don’t see the bigger picture.

I think OpenEyes and Bill3 missed what I was saying here.

I'm telling you how I felt, and the thinking I'm fighting against. That's all.

For the rest of the evening my interactions with her remained just as disjointed.

She was friendly, smiley, physically close, then tell me how she couldn't wait to divorce me.

She'd tell the youngest how important it was that they're heard and how important that relationship is to her. But the youngest is saying the same issues are a problem as I am saying, but to me she says they never happened.

It causes so much dissonance in my head that I can't explain it. I'm exhausted, sick, grieving, depressed, mentally scattered.

@RDMercer, your feelings are important. Your wife is behaving in a very disordered confusing manner. It’s concerning for members here and your confusion and self doubt are the result of your dealing with an emotionally manipulative person.

What she said was cruel and pathological.

Her threatening divorce is her way of abusing you so she feels in control. She uses the same tactic with her sons who do not want her in their lives. As soon as she sees a way to leave you she will. She doesn’t care about you or her two sons.

She liked being away and probably her friend is believing her BS and poor me and advising her on how to get as much as she can from you so she can leave you. She is setting up her new life right under your nose.

She keeps telling you she doesn’t love you and wants to divorce you. BELIEVE HER!

People who are disordered are unhappy and feed off of external people and things to sustain themselves. Alcoholics depend on the alcohol as an outside source to sustain. Even if they reduce their consumption, they often binge thinking they are in control of the disease/disorder when in reality THEY ARE NOT. That is why alcoholism is a very narcissistic disease. They don’t really hold their own, they prefer to blame and put down others instead which is a part of their dysfunction

With her away you and your boys enjoyed yourselves. It was healthy and good. Then she came home and DESTROYED that and insisted on telling you it’s your fault and handing you a verbal list of all the things you failed at and then she announced her plan to divorce you.

Honestly, you and your sons should have stood up to her and told her to LEAVE. She knows you are afraid to stand up to her. You ARE afraid and you instead give in to believing things are bad because of you.

The congitive dissonance is really tough. It's the thing that I struggle with the most. How do you wrap your head around that sort of thing?

I was convinced for almost four years that dh had some kind of early onset behavior variant dementia because there was no part of me that could accept that he would treat me the way he was otherwise. I still think he may have some physiological damages, but I am now also slowly seeing patterns of behavior going back many years. Back then, they were milder and I gave him a pass- then they got bad and the bad just didn't seem like the person I knew.

Anyhow, even if he is sick, even if your wife is sick, we shouldn't tolerate the behaviors and treatment we have been subjected to. It took me a while to see that boundaries don't have to be mean, even if he doesn't like them and thinks they are.

Learning about covert manipulations and control tactics has helped a lot too. It's external validation of things experienced. Things that can be very hard to pinpoint, and things that other people will probably not see.

It also helped when he got so out of control that there was no doubt about how messed up he has become. At that point it was like a light going on in my head that no matter what happens, I need to take care of myself first (as well as kiddo). That caused me to emotionally detach from him to a large extent, and as sad as it feels, it's also a blessing that keeps me in a place where I don't succumb to emotions around him anymore. I'm also don't get into involved conversations with him anymore. The pattern was that they always got turned around on me so there was no reason to keep doing it. Nothing ever got solved to my satisfaction. Ever. The power of giving up?

In codependent no more, she says have a love affair with yourself. That's where I am right now- rediscovering me separate from him, and we'll see where it goes eventually. A few weeks ago he was going on in a very self centered way, I finally told him that I was the first person I had abandoned and that i need to reconnect with myself. He accused me of being selfish and one sided! It's okay when we are both focused on him, but when I focus on myself the way he focuses on himself, it's a problem. Wow, lightbulb. Backing away and detaching gives a lot of perspective.

I'm so sorry that you are going through this. If it's anything like my situation, I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

Adult children don’t just wake up one day and say “I’m done with my parent, I don’t ever want to speak to them again.” Making that decision usually takes years and many failed attempts to heal the relationship. Cutting off a parent comes with immense grief and lots of shaming.

Your oldest son already wants his mother out of his life and your younger son agrees. They both are trying to tell you how hard it’s been for them. They care about you and want you to be a part of their lives. They genuinely do not want to deal with their mother.

Life with your wife, their mother is too unhealthy for them. Your wife is going to end up having children that will not have her be part of their lives.

Her friends are very much supporting her and believing what she is saying, and adding to it.

Except one, who told me she quit meeting with my wife and her new friends because she found her new friendships and relationships too toxic. This woman said, it was all bizarre to see a bunch of middle aged mothers talking and acting like they were and she wanted no part of it. She also told me one of the ladies has had a lot of negative things to say about me for over a year and my wife has never stopped her.

My youngest saw her texts to her new work colleagues, telling them she needed support to transition out of the house because of all she was going through.

Me and the kids asked her to leave for at least a few weeks. She refused. Her name is on the mortgage as well, so she is staying.

Yes, the weekend with the kids was good and Sunday and today I'm physically sick. My youngest is home from school again because their stomach is wrecked and can't leave the bathroom.

I'm going to have to investigate what it will take to escalate this and have her out of the house for the school year so that youngest will be successful.. That will require the youngest to request this, and I am worried about it appearing like I am pressuring them to do this.

RDMercer

The toxic behavior your wife is choosing to engage in being cheered on by these other women has been causing her children to become ill. Now you know this is not a case of you encouraging them but instead they are genuinely suffering and are reaching out for help in the only way they know how.

Your wife came home to you and your sons freshly determined to announce her desire to walk away from her family. Your children had a good time with you and then they had to witness their mother go up one side of you and down the other telling you that you are a failure. And they KNOW that’s not true. It’s making them sick RD.

It may be a good idea for your youngest son to sit with the guidance counselor at school and share his concerns and see if she can help with finding help for you that you can afford. You can no longer ignore this. This counselor may have resources to help you and your sons that you don’t know about.

This woman that got upset and shared with you that these individuals guiding your wife are toxic is a red flag.

My tolerance for weirdness is pretty high.

I came home, got physically sick. Made myself settle my nerves some.

Made a meal, ate with kids, hung out, watched TV, oldest went to workout.

Feeling relaxed, enjoying being home.

See a loving picture of me and my wife.

Start questioning everything. What did I do wrong? How can I undo it? How can I get her back? I wonder if she'd watch a documentary with me tonight.

WTF is wrong with me?

Also....

My oldest said to me last night.

You grew up on a farm, in an alcoholic home. You were used to being over responsible at a young age. And no matter how much responsibility you shouldered it was never like someone said thank you, you're awesome, good job.

So then you just found or created that same pattern in your adult life, where the responsibility and blame are yours, and you're hungry for some credit and positivity that you never get.

RDM

Your oldest is wise and is showing you he has made an effort to understand how alcoholism
In a parent affects children.

He is right, it’s familiar to you so you unknowingly learned how to become codependent from an early age.

You cannot fix an alcoholic. They have to make the decision to get sober and learn how to live a more functional life which includes becoming much more self aware. Self aware in recognizing how their behaviors and choices affect others.

Alcoholics make bad choices and like to play the victim and see others as the bad guy. They can be very moody and can hide their need for alcohol. They can seem friendly and warm and ok, yet that typically means they have alcohol in their system.

RD, I am so sorry. You sound like you are in such a rough place.

There's nothing wrong with you that wouldn't be happening to anyone else in your shoes. You are a giving, loving person. Perhaps too much so

Positive thoughts for you. It really sucks sometimes.

Wow your oldest has done his homework and has truly excellent insight!

it speaks very well of you, too, that he felt free to say that to you.

I bet he is trying to help you see your pattern so that you can break free from it.

You couldn't fix your household as a child, and you can't fix your household now.

You can, though, choose to break free, rather than unconsciously, reflexively repeating the past.

WOW. Now that's a SMART kid!!!!!!! He has incredible insights that are dead on accurate.