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Old Dec 09, 2022 at 08:57 AM
  #81
 
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Originally Posted by unaluna View Post
Hoarding is OCD, altho now they are saying it is its own thing.
Itís an excessive accumulation of things, not needed. Itís also a collecting of things they think will increase in valueÖthey rarely do.

When I met my h, he had this tall stack of unread newspapers in the corner. He said he was going to get around to reading them. After a while, I noticed he did not ever read them. So, I started making them slowly, sneakily disappear (down the trash chute). He finally noticed the stack had gotten shorter and questioned me. I fessed up. He got mad.

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Old Dec 13, 2022 at 08:49 PM
  #82
 
Grand baby born- a beautiful girl!

Meanwhile, Same triggering struggle with h. I am improving by controlling my ďmood disorderĒ and not tanking into a meltdown, nor an angry rant. I have tried discussing it with him infinite times. There are no more words to say. It is literally the same fight over and over with him gaslighting me. There is no point in having the teary meltdown anymore, either. So, itís an improvement that my day wasnít down into dangerous levels. I even took myself out for coffee, and enjoyed being around people, was able to thanks to no crying meltdown.

He signed up for a therapy course online. While I am glad he finally took initiative at help, I feel he did that to punish me instead of doing something to lift me. I wonder if he will log on to it again.

Iím being very conscious that I do not need another person to regulate my emotions. I did not confide in anyone else, no triangulation. The enablers do not give me the support and validation I seek anyway. This matter is only between me and him. I am no longer playing into the back/forth dance. The dysfunction is what it is, itís disappointing and heartbreaking, I gave myself positive talk and was productive today instead of falling down in mood too far.

It was my birthday and I am too old for this crap.

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Old Dec 13, 2022 at 08:53 PM
  #83
 
Congrats to new granny!!! Mazel Tov. A girl!!! Hugs!!!
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Old Dec 13, 2022 at 11:41 PM
  #84
 
Happy Birthday ((TishaBuv)) 🎂🥰❤️

Congratulations in having a little grandchild. Little girls are fun to shop for and find adorable girly outfits for. 😉

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Old Dec 24, 2022 at 11:45 AM
  #85
 
Another thread discussed dysfunctional holidays. I didnít want to detract from the OP, but wanted to try to make sense of my experience.

As a kid, teen, young adult before meeting my husband, my mother made holidays. They were happy for all of us. There was no drama (mostly). She did things her way. Family and friends came and participated. Everyone acted as youíd expect in a good way. My mother enjoyed being the hostess and having the attention on her.

I didnít feel deprived about gifts nor spoiled. I really wanted a dog, but they wouldnít get me one. Otherwise, I generally got the main gifts I asked Santa for. The dinner parties were nice. It was a good feeling about family.

Holidays were good while my father was alive and while my mother was married to my step dad.

I had birthday parties as a kid that my mom would make me. Kids came, all was fine.

As a teen, I always had a nice birthday. My mom always gave me a gift and treated me special that day, at least a meal with a cake and a candle, singing happy birthday. Always nice. Not an issue. For my 16th birthday she made me a beautiful Sweet 16. At 18, she gave me a gorgeous pair of diamond stud earrings!

My friends and boyfriends were always there to help me celebrate birthdays, as I was for them. There was never any struggle in my life over holidays before I got married.

When I got married everything changed. It became a struggle between my husband not knowing what to do, not wanting to do, disappointing me. We couldnít get on the same page about what I wanted and what he wanted to do. He would say he would do what I wanted, then he would disappoint me. This started as soon as I started dating him, but I didnít get upset about it until after several years of disappointment and intermittent reinforcement. He was inconsistent, keeping me confused and unhinged, having expectation then being let down. This has been the theme in other areas with him, too.

When I got married my mother became a difficult source of struggle over holidays. She wasnít the hostess doing it her way in her house anymore. Even when she did it in her house, because of my husband, she was forced to do things differently due to his requirements. She was resentful of this. She gave me intense struggle throughout the years. I felt a tug of war between him, me, and her. Me at the center getting tugged in all directions.

I developed emotional dysregulation, hysterical crying meltdowns. Holiday struggles caused this. I was the culprit who ruined holidays by having a meltdown. Then I would always have to pick myself up and continue to cook and make the festivities and look great by the time the guests (rest of the family) arrived. The photos looked beautiful, you would never know what went down prior.

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Old Dec 24, 2022 at 11:50 AM
  #86
 
Plus, I am there for everyone else. I make holidays and birthdays for all the others close to me. They are mostly happy occasions the birthdays for the others. *I have sadly allowed my emotional dysregulation to ruin some major events in recent years.

I had a meltdown and declined going out to dinner to celebrate my sonís 20th birthday. It was due to fighting with husband about our chronic intimacy issue. The day was ruined for me, by me and my emotional lability. My husband, as usual, acted like he just didnít know what to do in front of the kids. We told them to go to dinner themselves. Our son was 20 and brought home his gf (his now wife). So I thought the kids would all have a good time together and didnít need the parents there anyway considering. I had self medicated and was emotionally exhausted and non functioning.

In the moment, my kids did not react in any way, not anger at me, not empathy either. I later learned my son was furious with me. I was deemed toxic. I have since apologized. I appear to be the sole culprit, the toxic abuser, the sick person that they resent.

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Old Dec 25, 2022 at 01:42 AM
  #87
 
If a person is incapable of being thoughtful and loving there is really nothing you can do to change that.
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Old Dec 26, 2022 at 03:50 AM
  #88
 
When looking at these guides to what a healthy relationship is supposed to be, there are different factors that need to be considered. Your husband may have ADD or ADHD and he may not be able to function or see things the way you do. Itís not a question of failure but more of the way he is wired. How a person is wired goes into how their personality develops.
I had to learn this because I raised a child that has dyslexia and I think she may also have adhd like her father and grandfather. I had to learn how she is different and how to help her so learned how she learns. Having these challenges doesnít mean low IQ either. Actually IQ can be at genius level. However, because of being wired differently, there can be challenges where it is not as easy for them to see and understand you the way you want.

I sympathize with you as I have been married for 42 years and there are things I have never been able to get my husband to understand. People can be complex and there can be some challenges that present problems in a relationship that keep it from being some textbook healthy. This doesnít mean you failed and it can most definitely lead to emotional frustration.

There are things you have shared that I have had to deal with too. I have wanted to say something yet at the same time not offend someone who may have ADD or ADHD. What I do know is the deficit in attention is very frustrating. I have been fortunate to have two different therapists that are more like me that are married to someone with ADHD. It can get exhausting to live with. Itís not that the spouse is bad, itís more the kind of environment their presence creates.
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Old Dec 26, 2022 at 09:12 AM
  #89
 
@TishaBuv, repeatedly on my abuse forums on Facebook I see abused women believing and thinking that they are the toxic ones, because of their reactions to the abuse. I hear over and over again, "I was mean", or "I fought back", or "I broke down in tears and yelled at him". These are all reactions to abuse and these poor women then falsely believe that they are the problem, just as you are. The victim always gets unfairly targeted by others as being the source of trouble simply because they react to abuse. And this is what I see happening to you, especially with regards to your son's 20th birthday. You fought with your husband on that day, and he likely used abuse tactics on you, causing you to melt down and have trouble attending dinner. It's not your fault. And you are being unfairly victimized as the problem, when really, your husband is the problem.

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Old Dec 26, 2022 at 01:46 PM
  #90
 
It is just a failure to be on the same page with communication and understanding. Itís been extremely frustrating to say the least, because I have effectively communicated infinitely, repetitively then had meltdowns. IDK if I had underlying mental health issues before being with him, but I sure developed them while trying to cope with these confusing relationships.

For my survival moving forward, I am trying to look upon him as he has a cognitive disability that we do not understand, and just expect horrible communication. If I want something, I can ask plainly and he will give what he wants or can.

There are other difficult relationships in my family, too. Drama with mama atm. Awful, triggering story I will spare you all. I am handling it well and giving emotional support to my other sister, who is having a harder time with it. Other sister is downright adversarial. I am being properly acting, handing the situation as I would if it were professionally. It is the issues of other sister at play here, not anything done by us. Iím not sure if it is a mental health issue for her like avoidant PD or what. We all came from a trauma bond, dysfunctional FOO, so I have empathy for all.

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Old Dec 26, 2022 at 04:49 PM
  #91
 
I think itís helpful to learn that others may not see and understand the world like we do.

Many tend to think in black and white believing that if another canít see things like we do that they are doing so on purpose. This more often than not is simply not the case. And it doesnít always boil down to one being a victim.

This is what I learned about my daughter when she was in first grade. Her teacher wanted her to read the morning message and her answer was a matter of fact ďI canít do thatĒ and her teacher decided she was a dicipline problem. That was simply not the case and not her personality. It was Yale that tested her and explained to me her challenge. Also told me her IQ was actually very high.

It was not all too long ago children like her would have been punished and even ruined when they are often very brite and creative. A good example is Stephen Speilburge has dyslexia and look what he contributed.

Even in ones own family there can be different challenges that contribute to different behaviors along with different abilities to understand and communicate.
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Old Dec 26, 2022 at 05:22 PM
  #92
 
Itís nice to see you are putting more effort into learning and understanding. I have noticed growth in you. However, as you make gains itís important to be kind to yourself for not seeing things sooner in your life. Many things you are learning were not very accessible nor understood when you were younger. You are not the only one discovering new ways to look at things.
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Old Dec 27, 2022 at 06:02 AM
  #93
 
I don't think it's a lack of communication or understanding since you've been communicating the same things for years. And it's not a matter of not being on the same page. It's not a cognition problem. Does he show cognitive difficulties in other ways? Or just with you?

Bottom line is, the reasons for his treatment of you do not matter. What matters is how YOU feel through your interactions with him.

Do you feel respected? Do you feel heard? Do his actions match his words at all times? Do you feel loved, appreciated, supported, and valued? If your answer is no to each of these questions, then you know at the very least that he is toxic for you. And if your answer is no to each question, then you know that he is abusing you.

He baits you with abuse tactics so that you react and look like the crazy unstable one.

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Last edited by Have Hope; Dec 27, 2022 at 06:44 AM..
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Old Dec 27, 2022 at 08:34 AM
  #94
 
HH, I like what you said about how it doesnít matter why, or whether or not he is doing it intentionally. I think this is what keeps hanging me up, because he is so reasonable, kind, etc in other ways. He is the most covert abuser there ever was. If he was doing it maliciously, intentionally, then he is the best actor the world has ever known. And heís not a good actor. He literally has stage fright! I sound like I am paranoid even accusing himÖ

The bottom line is yes, he is baiting me. I am conditioned to take the bait, though. I was raised by a parent who did it. I have fallen into it with him every time. Therein lies the approach avoidance repetition compulsion dance of cluster b relationships. I see it. I get it. I must stop dancing.

Iím doing a lot better now with not engaging and seeking individuation. Iím looking at it as an addiction, even attending CoDA meetings. Iím looking forward to finally getting to meet with my new therapist. I hope itís a better experience this time. I am even traumatized from the therapist experience of the past.

*but my mother is overt and he is unbelievably covert

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Old Dec 27, 2022 at 10:19 AM
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@TishaBuv, all abusers can be nice, charming, loving even and seem logical and level headed because if they were abusive at all times, no one would be around them ever and no one would ever stay with them. They do this so that you will stay and will think that they're not abusive. It's deliberate on their part and it's a manipulation tactic.

The fact that your husband continuously gaslights you - that alone and by itself is abuse. Gaslighting is an abuse tactic.

And one thing to know about abusers as well. The abuse IS deliberate and a conscious act. Abuse is always about power and control over another person. Ever notice how he can turn the niceness and his cruelty on and off easily and quickly?

So yeah, his niceness at times confuses you because you think well, he must not be abusive if he can be nice. And that's exactly where he wants you to be. It's an act and it is false. He is not two different people at the same time. He is one person, a wolf in sheep's clothing. Beneath the nice and reasonable facade is a monster who is gaining power from being cruel to you.

You must ask yourself: When you melt down hysterically crying, does he comfort you and console you? Does he show compassion and empathy? Does he ever apologize to you for hurting you? Probably not. And that is a trait of an abuser. They do not sympathize, they do not empathize, and they do not sincerely apologize. If they do, it's a fake apology only to get you to stay under their thumb and control. And when they do apologize, does the same behavior ever stop or do they keep repeating the same behavior over and over that they know hurts you? That will tell you that it's a fake apology and that the behavior is deliberate.

What I meant by the reasons for his treatment of you do not matter is that it's easy to explain away or justify the abuse through explanations that it is a cognitive issue or a mental health issue or some other disorder he has that causes his behavior. Those types of reasons are a smoke screen covering up the reality of the abuse. Which is why I tried to get you to not think in that way. So, the underlying cause doesn't matter. It's still abuse.

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Old Dec 27, 2022 at 05:28 PM
  #96
 
What you said is true except, ď he can turn the niceness and his cruelty on and offĒ. Itís not nice/cruel. That is overt, which I have experienced but not with him. With him itís ďforgetting, not communicating, not understandingĒ instead of cruel being the trigger for abuse.

No, he does not have any communication disorder in any other area outside this with me.

He will apologize, but not on his own recognition of his wrong doing. Only after I get upset, much after. First he baits me into the meltdown by discussion that is circular, turns it around on me, invalidates me.

But I like to just give him the benefit of the doubt and tell myself heís a good guy who is just really, really, really, really dense lol. There is so much good with him for me. If I can control my emotions I will be best off.

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Old Dec 27, 2022 at 05:57 PM
  #97
 
There is so much good with him for you? In all the time I've known you, you've never spoken of anything that is good between you. Only the toxicity of it all and how it impacts you. I think honestly that you are hugely in denial of the abuse. And that you are now backtracking saying he's great. That has not been the case for many years, and I've known you for many years now. You don't want to face the truth and you must or will be forced to face it another day. It's inevitable that you realize it's abuse at some point or another and maybe even after 50 years of going around the same ole block with him ad nauseam. Forgetting, not communicating and not understanding are all what HE says, and you believe him at his word. It's not forgetting, it's not miscommunication and it's not misunderstanding. He knows full well what you want and need and still, he refuses to give you what you need and ask for. That IS cruelty. Healthy love involves giving each other what they need and ask for in order to be happy in the relationship. Your relationship does not have this. And emotional neglect iS abuse. So is invalidating you and turning things around on you. That's abuse as well. If you cannot absorb this fact now, perhaps another day or year or decade.

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Old Dec 27, 2022 at 09:11 PM
  #98
 
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There is so much good with him for you? In all the time I've known you, you've never spoken of anything that is good between you. Only the toxicity of it all and how it impacts you. I think honestly that you are hugely in denial of the abuse. And that you are now backtracking saying he's great. That has not been the case for many years, and I've known you for many years now. You don't want to face the truth and you must or will be forced to face it another day. It's inevitable that you realize it's abuse at some point or another and maybe even after 50 years of going around the same ole block with him ad nauseam. Forgetting, not communicating and not understanding are all what HE says, and you believe him at his word. It's not forgetting, it's not miscommunication and it's not misunderstanding. He knows full well what you want and need and still, he refuses to give you what you need and ask for. That IS cruelty. Healthy love involves giving each other what they need and ask for in order to be happy in the relationship. Your relationship does not have this. And emotional neglect iS abuse. So is invalidating you and turning things around on you. That's abuse as well. If you cannot absorb this fact now, perhaps another day or year or decade.
Youíre right. Iíve only addressed my problems with him when Iíve come on here for help fixing it, figuring it out, coping with it. Yes, everything you said here is true. Iím not in denial, just trying to find a path thatíll be best for everybody. Itís a bit of people pleasing for me now, too.

I have really mixed feelings for him.

I could have said more positive things about him on here, but I came here triggered in dysregulation over his incompatibility with me, so wasnít exactly feeling the love.

I always did say that we get along well outside of the intimacy struggle (mostly), and he was smart, funny, handsomeÖ Did I say handsome? Oy yoy yoy

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Old Dec 27, 2022 at 10:01 PM
  #99
 
Sorry to hear about your situation. We have something in common though. I'm still learning how to deal with my mother and her MH. It's a daily struggle that never gets any easier.
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Old Dec 28, 2022 at 04:10 AM
  #100
 
As you may be aware, my challenging relationship is with my mother, well-documented in another thread.

So fed up with her attitude, I revealed my Type2 diagnosis just before Christmas. Has that improved our relationship? No! There's been cursory attempt to show interest in how I'm feeling. Then, predictably, the interrogation begins. The main question, why didn't you tell me sooner as you were diagnosed in June? Followed by who have you told before me?

At my brother's house on Christmas Day, out of their earshot, she again asked "just when were you going to tell me?" My reply was this is neither the time nor place for that discussion. She apologised then spent rest of day trying to make everything about her. Even my sister-in-law raised her eyebrows a few times.

Following day, at my aunt's, was conscious of mother trying to make it all about her. My cousin paid a short visit. From the kitchen, I could hear mother telling her how she'd gone to bed on Christmas Eve alone, then woken on Christmas Day alone. What she's forgotten it was exactly the same last year.

New Year is fast approaching and the one thing I do not want to do is spend it with my mother. The conversation will only be about one subject. Don't see why I should have to defend my choices, as I'm an adult.
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