how to very gently stop the sexual side of a relationship

A long post. Thanks in advance for reading. X-posted in the sexual issues forum.

I: a woman, 52, Russian, in the States with a green card, long diagnosed with bipolar, well-read on mental illness, symptoms, medications, etc.

He: 47, Indian, in the States for 10+ years but on a work visa still, estimated to get his green card only in 2030 (!!!), works in tech, lately has been complaining of depression and anxiety but still has not seen a doctor despite my reminders about how long it takes to wait for an appointment with a psychiatrist.

Issue: he comes almost instantly AND it is an anhedonic ejaculation, a term I know thanks to my bipolar II friend who has it as a side effect to Effexor but in the case of this gentleman it is just something he has had for a long time not knowing the name of the condition, and, he does not take any psych drugs.

He and I have known each other for 10 years and he has always treated me super well and shown interest and attraction and attachment and all the rest of that, but I only turned the relationship into sexual last November. And that problem emerged and I gently suggested that he consult with a doctor but he would not.

I consulted with a sex educator early on about rapid ejaculation. It was before I fully realized that the gentleman's ejaculation is anhedonic: no orgasm. He did not tell me right away. So I consulted with a sex educator about premature ejaculation. The sex educator corrected my language: not premature but just rapid. I guess he wanted to take the judgment out of it. And explained that there is an evolutionary advantage to rapid ejaculation. Apparently if a man is having sex and lions come after him, it is better to impregnate a woman right away rather than wait. I might be oversimplifying and at any rate do not see the advantage because if a lion is coming the lion might as well devour the woman who has just been impregnated but has not had time to run away and then there is no evolutionary advantage coming from her having conceived.

The sex educator told me that I just need to make sure the gentleman understands that sex does not end upon his ejaculation, that he has tongue and fingers. It is not that the gentleman does not know he has them but I do not care. I want what I consider normal lovemaking, meaning for him to make love to me passionately and with abandon in a regular traditional way, penis inside vagina, for a reasonable length of time, and then come in an at least somewhat dramatic and hopefully vocal way and not with a quiet "I think I came, I am sorry".

I was also annoyed that he would not see a doctor and I became more forthright about suggesting it. I basically told him to report this problem to both a urologist and a psychiatrist. He still has not made an appointment but last we talked he confided in me that he is very depressed due to what has been going on at work and that he also fears that with the downturn in tech he might lose his job and with it, his work visa, and have to go back to India which is not at all what he wants. After he confided in me, he messaged saying that he hoped his sharing his depression did not make me more depressed (I had a lot of depression recently). I messaged back saying that it did not and expressed my appreciation for his trust in me. He thanked me for the guidance on finding a psychiatrist.

I now realize that he is so stressed out that sex is just not a priority for him so I won't expect anything but I also do not want to continue what has been going on as it is disappointing and depressing for me. The thing is, he treats me extremely well, with utmost care and respect and basically adoration and I want to end the sexual part of this relationship gently. I have been thinking of telling him straight up that it is too depressing for me and that if this problem is solved, he can tell me and then I will reconsider.

It is my first time having a relationship with an Indian man and I do not know whether some of the things I have observed are cultural or unique to him. For example, he is sexually naive and is pretty much ashamed. In the beginning, before I stopped trying to make a lemonade so to speak, I would at least empty out the condom to spread his sperm on my skin to have some joy. He could not believe I would do that and always wanted tissues to wipe his sperm (which would come out before he even got inside me) as if it were dirty. The sex educator said that it is "his", meaning an issue on his side and I was not to care, but the relationship involves two people and I do not know how not to care.

The gentleman gave me an external vibrator which did not work for me but I got another one from the same website that did work. He wants to use it on me but by now I am so unhappy with everything that has been going on that I am not aroused or attracted and I would much rather use the vibrator alone, in peace.

Finally, recently I met a Mexican guy (by happenstance and not intentionally) who was instantly interested, who appears to be in his early to mid 40s, and who probably does not have the issues with which the Indian guy presents (these are rare issues, after all, so chances that somebody else has them are extremely low). I will meet him in a public place this coming Tuesday.

I do not know whether to tell the Indian gentleman about the possibility of my acquiring another partner and wanting a clean separation or whether it is better to tell that his sexual issues distress, depress and disappoint me to no end and I cannot get used to them or what.

A compounding factor is that it is highly unlikely that he will replace me with someone else and I feel a sense of responsibility. Part of me wishes I had never crossed the boundary into sexual with him but I cannot undo the past.

Or, and the sexual educator invited me to see the gentleman's instant ejaculation as a sign of his being super excited by me and I tried but it got old. I know that the guy is crazy about me and do not need premature ejaculations to prove that to me.

***

As a child, I read "Le Petit Prince" ("The Little Prince") as part of my French lessons and was very influenced by the book. So this current situation makes me think of the fox who said "You become responsible, forever, for what you have tamed." but I did not know, going in, what problems I would encounter. I would not have tamed the gentleman in a sexual way had I known.

Please help me find a courteous, kind, considerate way out.

PS I've reread my own post and I think I have an idea. The gentleman does not read fiction, has not read it in years, only reads political and science-y stuff but if I give him a book to read, I am sure he will read it, and "The Little Prince" is a short book. Maybe give him the book, ask him to talk to me upon reading it, and tell him that I now feel that I have tamed him and am forever responsible but that at the same time I need to take care of my own self, too? This way at least he will know that I DO feel responsible.

I had a similar experience in graduate school with an Indian colleague. I am American, but the Indian culture is just soooo different in sexual matters. He may well have a family (wife and children) in the old country that he does not feel a need to tell you about. I was horribly insulted by my paramour's attitude toward my freedom, but i understood it as my parents were Italian and had tried to raise me with the same taboos.

I would not give your friend a copy of The Little Prince. I dont see from your post that you love him so it seems confusing and inappropriate to me.

I do not love him. You are right. Before it all started, I was close to loving him but after all of this has happened, absolutely not, no way.

You don't love the guy so why would it be so hard to just tell
him that it's not working for you. He knows he has a physical problem that can probably be medically corrected. This is not YOUR problem. Maybe you need to give this guy a detailed description of what you need to be satisfied.
I have to self pleasure while my SO is laying right next to me.
Can't have intercourse but she does have a mouth and fingers.
Won't help out at all because SHE can't climax. It's a complicated issue I've discussed elsewhere but the bottom line is that for me , like you , it's a dealbreaker. The fact is this is all about clear cut , honest , communication.

I am very sorry to hear that about your situation.

I like the idea of saying "it is not working out" and giving you a detailed description of what I need (and what he cannot give at this time).

I dont think he needs a detailed description. That just seems hurtful to me. If he asks questions, answer them, but this is not sex education class. Im pretty sure he is aware of what the problem is.

Just be honest with him. You are not fulfilled with the physical side of the relationship, your needs are not met, and he does not want to do anything about his 'problem'.

I would just be straightforward in telling him you don't want to be physical when you are not fulfilled in this way.

he is not, I think. Otherwise he would have long sought medical help. He once asked me (some time ago) if orgasms would help my depression. He thinks it is about MY orgasms. In reality it is not. It is about normal (in my book) intercourse and HIS orgasms. Without orgasms on his side, it is not working for me.

I think it a fallacy that there is medical help for this deeply entrenched physical and psychological personal problem. MAYBE within the context of a stable relationship. There are delaying tactics etc. But it wont change who he is.

I dont understand why you are so invested in the form his personal sexual expression takes. You may have a preference for PIV sex, but why would you insist he change? Ya know? Its like getting him to switch from tea to coffee so you can share coffee in the morning. That doesnt seem fair to me. It DOES seem fair to stop meeting for coffee, or for you to switch to tea, or for you to enjoy your coffee alone, but you seem to think there is something NECESSARILY wrong with him. I say its his choice and its your choice. Sometimes things just dont work out.

The coffee / tea analogy is precious. And I do see that his problem is so entrenched that medical help may be of no avail here. Note that when I first pointed out that he needs help for anhedonic ejaculation, I coined it in terms of his being robbed of experience (not I, he is robbed of experience) and he instantly became interested in asking a dr about it. He agreed that he was robbed of experience and that it is not good. It just did not occur to him before to think of himself as being robbed of experience. But I did not talk about myself.

That is one reason I am asking about it here before talking to him, to be able to express my feelings without hurting him. I am very annoyed because I think that I want is so basic, that I am not asking for anything extraordinary, and therefore it annoys me that he does not seem bothered at all by not delivering this very basic quintessential thing but instead is bothered by odd and completely irrelevant things, such as wiping up his sperm and even the fact that I have smooth skin and he does not. I do not care about the smoothness of his skin in the least. So I am annoyed and growing more annoyed. I am even annoyed by his messages such as "I hope you have had a good weekend" (he lives very far so he does not visit that often). I guess it is just time to have a conversation with him in a minimalist way, as you say, by saying that I am built and set up the way I am and the physical side of our relationship is not working for me as it is.

I think it’s best to keep things short and honest. He would fair better with a partner that is similar to him and is ok not having sex. There are women who want a man like him and don’t want sex.

You need to free yourself to find a partner that you can enjoy a sexual relationship with.

So true. And I am in essence keeping him from pairing with such a woman.

I have stopped it. He came for a visit and I took him to the kitchen and when he sat down, I just said that it would be a hard conversation and then said: "I like you a lot, but the physical side of the relationship is not working out for me". And he said OK, nodded, and I thought that was it. We then talked about unrelated subjects. He taught me how to make tea the Indian way (he had been wanting to do for a long time and I bought the ingredients for it). Then he talked. He said things about being sorry and I said it was not his fault. He said that he would always cherish the time together. He said that he respected and adored me and did not want me to perceive what happened as negating that. I said that I knew very well that he respected and adored me. He talked about the fact that he has known me for that long (it has been over 10 years), that it is magical with me, that it is as magical as it was 10 years ago when he first saw me. Such things. We hugged and stroked each other's hands. It was memorable and meaningful. He wanted a kiss on the lips and I did not so I made a compromise by kissing with my mouth almost closed. He said that it is a huge loss for him, but he wants me to be happy. Told me to call him if I need anything (he would always say that and I very rarely needed anything except for help setting up tech objects such as wi-fi). In the end I told him that it was time for him to go home.

I feel relief and that I did the thing that was right by me. It is obviously sad that he is the way it is, that in addition to his respect and adoration there is no sexual expression that would be welcome by me, but I cannot change him.

He did say that maybe in another time or something like that. I said yes, maybe.

Thank you for helping me with this. In particular, I used the word "physical", not the word "sexual", and did not go into any descriptive detail.

All in all, I feel that I have closed a chapter in my own life.

He did at some point said, under his breath "I don't want to break up".

***

I did see the Mexican guy yesterday and went for a short walk with him. A no go since his English is too limited for me to have a meaningful convo with him. A very nice guy but what can I do? I walked him to his parked car and told me him that I liked him a lot but was in a relationship. It is not true but it was a way to leave him thinking that it was not anything on his side but rather on mine. The funny thing was if it was the first time using the expression "to be in a relationship" when referring to self.

I am impressed that you took the time to sort this through AND considered the feelings of others. I can see you are a considerate person. I admire that quality. I see too many situations where a person’s attitude is more of “how dare you think I would be interested in you “. People have no idea how they give away their narcissistic selfishness in how they interact. I have to admit I had not heard of the challenge you shared about this man. Some men have challenges, it can be cruel to punish them emotionally for it. Other than his physical challenge he sounds like a very caring thoughtful man.

There definitely are women out there that would love the fact that this man is so kind and caring and doesn’t have to have the sex. Some women don’t really orgasm either. Yet are nice and caring women otherwise. Also some women have to take ADs that help their mental health but pretty much kills their sexual desire. This kind of woman would love to have caring companionship without the sexual stress.

It takes time to find the right match. People don’t deserve to be hurt because they don’t fit some ideal.

@Tart Cherry Jam this is a good conversation to have in a forum like this. I think it’s important to have conversations that reveal how people CAN have good relationships despite not engaging in sex. There are wonderful individuals that are under the impression that they have no value if they don’t have a sex drive for whatever reason and that is simply not true.
A couple can be warm and cuddle and rub each other’s feet and give lots of hugs and feel and enjoy LOVE without sex. It’s wonderful to be able to be loving and receive oxytocin.

I was going through a really tough time and had to try to sell things to get money to feed my animals. I stopped in a shop and the woman who was the owner looked at me and caring it said, “you are suffering let me take care of this one customer and we will talk”. She turned out to be such a wonderful person. She bought things from me and we would sit and talk.

She had a very challenged life and her life experiences gave her depth and quality and she helped me look at things a little differently. She had a male partner and both of them had been abused and they were both sexually uncomfortable. But they learned to be close despite their discomforts. I enjoyed hearing how they built this special relationship. Being able to cuddle without that pressure was what they both needed.

It’s important to know these good relationships, meaningful relationships. There can be much quality closeness without this Barbie and Ken ideal. He isn’t a failure and neither are you, it’s just that you don’t quite fit as a couple.

We don't quite fit, that is right. And I woke up today in a good mood and thinking that I did the right thing freeing myself, as you said. I also remembered everything this man said last night and I feel a rush of gratitude for it.

Hi Cherry I commend you; I believe you handled a clusterfu*k of a situation beautifully! The one thing I want to emphasize is this:

All in all, I feel that I have closed a chapter in my own life.

Because you feel sorry for the man, or guilty, it would be too easy to allow him back into your life. I would caution against that.

That is right, there is a risk now of allowing him back into my life. There is no way I will allow any semblance of a sexual relationship again, but I do not know what to do about him wanting to be in my life non-sexually. He likes every single Facebook post of mine, sends me messages such as "nice snaps" (after I posted pictures from my hike), which is something he used to do before. So he behaves as if not much had changed. I do not know what exactly I should do. I think the most important part for me now is not to feel guilty and then I will be OK whichever way he behaves.

Here is my update. Actually, several updates.

In mid-1990s there was a young gentleman, A., who wanted to marry me but I did not take him seriously, in part because I was in love with a much older married gentleman, R., and stuck in a mostly platonic relationship with him that was not going anywhere, but I did not realize how dangerous it was to be stuck in it, waste time and forego opportunities because of it. There were other complicating factors which I will omit for the sake of brevity.

Then I entered into a disastrous marriage to a narcissistic abuser and gaslighter, F., but was not able to see the abuse and gaslighting until 2012. I am still stuck litigating post-judgment divorce issues with F. who was able to exploit my every vulnerability, including mental illness whose onset apparently got triggered by my marriage to him, although I had had a genetic predisposition to it. In 2012 I underwent professional personality assessment which revealed self-defeating personality traits. One symptom of the self-defeating personality disorder is being unattracted to caring sexual partners. Even before I received that diagnosis I had started on a journey of finding out what could have happened had my life unfolded differently. At that time my focus was on exploring what could have happened had I not married F. I wrote to A. He instantly responded saying that I was one of the kindest women in his life but also vulnerable to manipulation by men (I am not quoting him verbatim but conveying the gist of it). He then invited me to briefly meet his wife and children when he was visiting my area on business. He had a much younger wife and two adorable children. I liked him a lot during that meeting and could not understand why in mid-1990s I did not take him seriously. Since then I have been able to reflect on the why and pinpoint that being stuck in loving R. was to blame.

Do note that A. and I never had a sexual relationship.

Very recently, after I broke up the sexual relationship with the Indian gentleman, A. wrote to me that he is going through a divorce. Later he asked if he could join me for our class reunion in October and then travel together. I said yes but had anxiety attacks over it because it seems that destiny is giving me another chance half a life later and I am afraid to squander it. The anxiety attacks, several of them, were quite bad, but now I am feeling better. A. inquired about my personal life and I said that I was available. I now need to think about how to clear my life of various debris in preparation for his visit in October.

I am glad that I broke up with the Indian gentleman when I did as this step goes towards clearing the debris. I also think that it would have been much harsher on him had I broken up because of another man rather than the way I did.

The Indian gentleman is going through a hard time because indeed he was laid off. He needs to find another employer or else go back to the back country. Luckily he will have more than 1 year to look for another employer. He is under a lot of stress. I helped him by connecting him with a friend of mine who is a professional resume writer and career coach and I also lend a listening ear. So I still see him, but with no sex. For the past couple of times I just saw him and I thought that he was over everything, but today he asked to hold my hand and I agreed and it later "escalated" into something unpleasant: before he left my apartment he asked if he could cuddle with me and I said no, citing my need to go watch a training video on YouTube. In reality I just do not want to cuddle with him, period, regardless. I think he perceived it correctly, but am not sure. Because he is under so much stress I feel uneasy about denying him now, but at the same time I want to be firm.

I do know for a fact that I made the right call breaking up the sexual relationship with him. I also freely admit that his adoration of me feels pleasant to me (we like being liked, at least I do). It is March and I need to clear the debris before October: I still have half a year for that.