I thought I was doing the right thing

Here's the story.

The bartender (Amy) of a music venue that I frequent got fired and banned from the venue. I don't know every single detail, but her ex boyfriend, the lighting guy, asked management to fire her after he learned that she was dating someone new. There's more to the story here as to why she was also BANNED, but I will spare you those details since they're not really that important.

According to Amy, her ex bf is an abusive narcissist, who abused her verbally, emotionally, and even physically.

The other day, I ran into a woman, Leslie, who goes to this music venue. We started to talk about the above issue that occurred. I started to tell Leslie's friend that I support Amy and believe her when she says she was abused. Leslie chimes in, and starts talking total trash about the bartender, saying she's psychotic and has Borderline Personality Disorder and is so nuts that she's caused this whole problem. She went on and on and on about how crazy and unstable Amy is.

In defense of Amy and in support of her, I messaged her to tell her what was being spread around about her. At first I didn't say WHO had said it, but Amy pressed me for this info so I revealed it to her. Amy then immediately messaged Leslie to confront her about what she said.

The next day, Leslie wrote me a nasty note:

"I have no idea why you ran back to Amy and told her what I said. I was trying to look out for you so you understood there were two sides to that story. Really disappointed after laurel and I welcomed you to our spot. You can stay right away from me."

So, I replied, telling her that Amy has never been diagnosed with a personality disorder (truth), that she was abused, to get her facts straight, and to leave me alone. Then I blocked her.

Given that Amy kind of threw me under the bus, I should have probably kept my mouth shut instead of telling Amy what Leslie said about her. However, I thought I was doing the right thing. I thought I was doing right by Amy. I would want to know if someone was talking trash about me, and that's where I was coming from. I also defend and support Amy in her plight in this situation, and I felt Leslie was out of line by spreading dirt and false rumors about her. I have never witnessed Amy being unstable or crazy, either, and I've known Amy for about a year.

So, now Leslie is pissed at me and likely will talk trash about ME now to everyone I know in this community.

I've heard from another friend, Angela, that Leslie has caused issues with more than one woman.

And, my prior experiences with Leslie over the years have been very negative.

I met Leslie when I was married to my husband. He and I met her together, and she immediately gravitated towards HIM and behaved as though I was invisible every time we ran into her. She would blatantly ignore me, and would direct ALL her attention, conversation and eyes at my husband. I didn't even exist in her mind! Then, when I would run into Leslie on my own, she would always ask me where my husband was! I concluded that she was flirting with my husband right in front of me, and that she's one of THOSE women who tries to steal another woman's man.

So, I never liked Leslie to begin with. She only started to acknowledge my presence AFTER my husband and I divorced.

Like I said, I should have just kept my mouth shut, in hindsight, and I should have stayed neutral in this drama of a situation. But I got very TRIGGERED by Leslie talking dirt about Amy.

Whenever confronted with their abuse, the victim is ALWAYS portrayed by their abuser as having a mental health disorder AND of being sheer crazy. And that is so unfair and unjust. The abuser often instigates a "smear campaign" against their victim when accused of abuse. And that's also why I told Amy what Leslie had said about her.

I am exiting from this community, regardless because I am finding it to be rather toxic, so whatever trash Leslie now says about me almost doesn't matter.

But, what are your thoughts? Was I in the wrong by trying to help and defend Amy?

Well the operating word is “according to Amy…”.

Since you only know these people in a music venue late at night with music blasting and have never spent time with them in their home or even anywhere else for that matter you simply don’t know what went on in their lives and relationships. Who abuse and who didn’t abuse and who had PD and who calls what abuse is a mystery here. We don’t even know why she was fired and if it was because boyfriend said something plus it’s not our business.

When people gossip about their relationship, it’s probably wise to state that “hey we don’t really know what happened so let’s stay out of it” and/or remove yourself from the conversation. Or if you aren’t comfortable saying it, just excuse yourself to the bathroom and change your location. You don’t even like this Leslie, why engage in discussing other people with her.

I don’t know if you had to tell Amy. It’s hard to tell if it was right or wrong. If she’s not really your friend and she’s not even allowed in the venue, I am not sure she needs to know what some intoxicated people gossip about in a bar. Many people don’t want to know if others (random people, not like her family or best friend) gossip about them. She works in bars. She must know some of the behaviors are typical for the crowd.

Now you told Amy that Leslie spread rumors then imagine Leslie would tell that guy that you are spreading rumors about him being abuser. So now there is another cycle of drama starting. It will never end. Plus you might be labeled as drama seeker. Better not engage with these people

The thing is, I am not spreading any rumors about him being an abuser. Amy's mother wrote to many people from the community announcing that he was abusive towards her daughter, Amy. She included me in this group of people she informed. Also, the venue management was told by Amy that he is abusive. So, I am simply backing and supporting Amy in her plight.

My answer to all the drama as of late is to exit from it all and to remove myself from this community for a while. I want to avoid stepping into landmines, which is what this situation with Leslie was to me.

Well again her mother saying something doesn’t make it so either. I am not saying you are spreading rumors but if you say that he is an abuser, it could be considered spreading rumors/repeating wrong info about something you just don’t know. Same with passing what you heard to Any. Not saying you are spreading, just that it could look like that.

“Being told by Amy that he is abusive” doesn’t mean he is. That’s the thing. Your ex said things about you. Were they true? And his brother and friends said things about you too. One can say Hope must be crazy etc because that’s what all these people said. But is it really what happened?

I am just saying it’s your right to support whoever in this situation, but other people might support the other person or they might consider both sides. No one is right or wrong because no one knows.

Staying out of it might be the best and it sounds like that’s what you are doing. Smart move

I believe Amy when she says she was abused. Abuse victims need support. And I believe her. I've spoken to her.

This is all not your stuff, abuse or not. This has nothing to do with your life. It’s good that you’re leaving that group of people. It’s all super drama.

If it didn’t happen to you, don’t talk about it. It will always come back and hit you in the face.

I got triggered and deeply identify with Amy because of my own past abuse. And, I was roped in by Amy's mother, who wrote to me about the issue and involved me in it. It's not all my own doing, and it's not like I've inserted myself where I don't' belong. Someone involved me in it.

I am now exiting from the drama.

You identify with what this girl told you. You can’t identify with HER because you don’t really know what happened. You don’t even know her that well. You can’t believe everything people tell you.

This girl’s mother sounds trashy. I am an involved mother, but I can’t imagine messaging bar attendees- if my daughter was a bartender- about her personal business. Or in fact messaging anyone. Highly inappropriate. I’d be more understanding if the mother was so upset and confronted abuser-not safe- but it’s understandable. Not messaging everyone. Both mother and daughter instigated drama. They sound drama driven. I’d not consider her messaging people “involving anyone”. You don’t have to get involved in drama. It’s optional.

I know a lot of people, and have quite a few friends. Behaviors of these people are just not something that typically happens with mature adults. It’s immature. And kind of trashy. Everything you ever wrote about these people just sends the message about lack of class and common sense. The only time this kind of drama happens relatively regularly is in adolescence. It’s very common in high school because that’s the age. It’s not typical adult behavior.

Maybe you socialize with all the right kinds of people and have found good people to be around through various means. I have yet to find this. A friend tells me it exists in every community - including yoga, church and other spiritual types of communities. One of the most toxic places I found on the internet was a spiritual forum!

Occasional bad behaviors definitely exist everywhere, but the community you describe just seems to have constant bad behaviors. Like almost every interaction you have with them is quite terrible to an extreme level.

With online forums you don’t really know who people are. Might be bored teen posting as a middle age woman.

Yeah, it happens frequently enough in my music community and I am sick of it. The spiritual forum I was on? Even the mods were toxic!

I am just so done with toxic people.

I found plenty of ''toxic'' and mean people on a spiritual forum. I left it long ago. It's sad when trolls and such hang out and cause such harm.

I hope you find some good people soon...

It is sad when trolls hang out in places you would not expect. I did not expect to find toxic people on a spiritual forum, of all places. Even the mods were awful. One mod told me that all the abuse I had repeatedly experienced was MY OWN FAULT because of my karma! Unbelievable.

The right thing, as a rule of thumb, morally, is to spare other people pain. If telling the bartender you heard through the grapevine her ex was slandering her caused her more pain, then it was not the right thing to do.

I had a very similar situation where one close friend told me our other close friend told other friends that I have BPD. It was especially angering to me because I told this friend many times that my psy did not diagnose me with the disorder, and she kept insisting I have it. She enjoyed spreading malicious gossip about me, her so-called best friend. Technically, by way of the logic I stated earlier, my friend was not right by telling me this information either. It did cause me more pain. It was one of the last straws that led to the end of my friendship with the malicious friend that soon followed. I didn’t even end the friendship over this! It was more hurtful behavior she did to me that followed. She was a bad friend, another abusive person I allowed in my life to keep hurting me until finally enough was enough.

I am a person who developed borderline traits that emerged in me as a result of severe emotional abuse done to me by my husband. I completely agree with you that this can happen. It happened to me. I am not having any more emotional dysregulation now that I am away from him!

I know how triggering hearing about this is to you, and all that you went through, and appreciate you defending others who have been victims and educating others to be aware. But doing it the way you did backfired on you.

I believe in order to heal from abuse, one has to get out of a victim mentality. After we get out of the abusive situation, which is the right thing to do, we need to stop feeling like a victim. It’s best to just go on with healthy lives and leave it in the past never to repeat again.

I agree and disagree. I agree that causing people pain is not right when it is done deliberately, but what if the truth is a painful truth, and what if it is said out of concern for the person rather than to harm the person deliberately?

People tell each other painful truths all the time. When an alcoholic is confronted with their addiction, that's a painful truth, but it must be stated, and often by the person's friends or relatives. I was not deliberately trying to be hurtful. There is a huge difference between being open and honest with good intentions and being deliberately hurtful.

And, if that one friend hadn't told you that the other so-called friend was telling everyone you had BPD, then you would have remained in the dark about that friend stabbing you in the back, and you would have naively carried on your friendship with this person, not knowing that she was spreading vicious rumors about you. You say that wasn't the reason you ended the friendship, but wasn't it a catalyst and isn't it best to know the truth about what she was doing to you? Alternatively, you may have been angry that no one told you the truth.

This is a case of telling someone a painful truth so that they are not in the dark. So I don't completely agree with your logic. My intentions were honorable.

My mother recently told me something that was painful and hard to hear. She said that when I was 20 pounds heavier living with my ex husband, that I looked "pregnant". That hurt and caused me pain, but I know my mother wasn't deliberately trying to hurt me. She was simply being honest. Being honest doesn't equate to being morally wrong. I think we have very different opinions on what is "morally right".

And I don't think of myself as a victim, nor her as one. I WAS a victim of abuse, but now I am no longer, and I am empowered from having left. Same with this woman, Amy, the bartender. She left an abuser as well. I think of her as being empowered too.

Gee screw the kind of honesty.

I chuckle it on your mom’s age but she essentially says to her daughter she is so fat that she looks pregnant. Being honest? Like did you ask your mom “did I look pregnant!”

What do you think was her agenda in saying that? I sure wouldn’t think someone said that to me because they had to share “painful truth”. Why? What’s the point of that truth? Like I don’t want to hear it!

I’d say it’s morally wrong to make offensive comments for no reason no matter if it’s honest. If someone told me when I was heavier I looked pregnant id not care if they are just being honest! I’d consider it wrong!! Not like there’s serious life and death issue like you are 600lb and they trying to save you from dying. Fat shaming IS morally wrong! Making the kind of comments IS morally wrong. And there is ton of research how such weight/looks comments affect people. .

But again in older age some people lose boundaries and that’s your family so I’d not hold grudge but please realize it’s not ok.

My mother can be insensitive and blunt, but I know she does not mean to be hurtful, and that's why I took what she said to me with a huge grain of salt and did not let it bother me or hurt me, ultimately. Sure, at first it hurt, but I know she didn't intentionally TRY to hurt me. And that's my point! There's a HUGE difference between intentionally causing harm and unintentionally being hurtful.

We all have different opinions and sentiments about brutal honesty. I am brutally honest myself and can be very blunt at times. I. can also be softer and gentle in my approach. It depends on the situation and person I am dealing with.

Amy never said anything to me about me being in the wrong for telling her what I did. She did not chastise me, confront me, or even ask why I decided to tell her what Leslie had said about her. If she doesn't have a problem with it, then perhaps it's truly a non issue. She and I have corresponded since then, and she's been nothing but friendly and nice towards me. I don't think she is taking issue with it.

This thread can be closed now. No further comments are needed. Thanks!