Aggression from total stranger

I'd like to hear people's input on a recent interaction I had. I was taking my 4 close friends out to dinner to celebrate being together again. We decided on a casual tex-mex burrito place. The restaurant was crowded when we arrived so we got in line and waited to order. The process was you waited in line to order, placed order at register, then took a number they gave you and went to find a seat. My friend suggested she go sit at a table that she saw was open in order to hold it for us so we'd have a place to sit. There were no signs saying "wait to be seated" or "no saving seats". So my friend went to the table and sat down.

Within 5 minutes, a woman approached her and asked how many people were in her party (the woman was not an employee, just a customer). My friend said "five total" and they are coming as soon as they finish ordering. The woman then turned around to an employee and started loudly complaining saying my friend was just sitting at a table holding it and she and her dining party had no where to sit. She then loudly called my friend rude to the employee. The employee said she thought that was rude too, but then told the woman she would open up more tables. My friend was so horrified and angry at this indirect form of confrontation that she got up and told the woman "you want the table, fine, you take it" and then my friend walked back to me and our group to explain what happened. All the while, this woman proceeds to follow my friend loudly telling her as they're walking that holding a seat is not allowed and is not fair. My friend continued to try to avoid a direct confrontation because there were families with young children all around us and she thought she gave the woman what she wanted anyway. Well, nope...the woman then stands in our groups faces and says to me "we were here before all of you and ordered before all of you and it's not fair if we don't have a place to sit because you are holding a table, I don't think that's fair, do you?" I told her "lady, there are no signs saying it's not allowed so that means management says it is allowed". Then the woman says "I know the manager at the other location and saving a seat is definitley not allowed there." I was honestly ready to go full throttle yelling at this woman when my friend told me not to engage her any further and let it go. So that's what I did. The woman then walks away for a moment, then comes back to us and says "they opened more tables, now we have a place to sit and so do you, so it's good. Then she puts her hands on my friends back in an apologetic manner. Like she was trying to signal that she wanted to smooth over things. I found this invasive, intrusive and very very bizarre! My friend stared at her in anger and she walked away and never came back. Why would you harrass people you don't know in a restaurant over something so petty, then touch them like "I'm sorry, it's okay". The woman should have kept her hands to herself and minded her own business!

If I had been saving the seat, I would not have moved unless management or the police made me. This woman had no right to tell people where they can sit. I've replayed this scenario in my head many times because I'm infuriated at the audacity of this total stranger to think she could harrass my friend like that. And if she felt guilty enough to have to touch my friend in a half-*** way to try to smooth things over, then she needs to re-evaluate how she treats people to begin with. What is wrong with some people?

Thats how things are in this country right now. Some people are afraid there are not enough resources for everyone and so they say "america / me first", and others calmly believe there are enough resources to take care of everyone and they just wait for their turn and trust that god will provide.

Its like the parable of the wedding feast. Let he who will be first be last, and let he who will be last be first.

This was great! You and your friend were the adults in the room and stepped away from an unreasonable person, rather than respond in kind or escalate. I bet that you and your friend's calmness and self-control are what brought the other woman to settle down and then come back in an apologetic manner.

I’m not gonna tell you the woman was wrong in her request but the lack of education and compassion for the other is null. She will likely one of these people who go here and there making a bit deal about irrelevant stuff. Selfish and bitter.

What could it be the worst that happen to her? My god, staying a little waiting for another table or ask the waitress to set one more or go to a park to eat.
There’s no need to do such a show. She and her family ended probably angry, she drove your friend angry and you all.

If we do such a bid deal with irrelevant setbacks which point we are going to reach under important circumstances.

Lack of education, empathy and lack of any emotional intelligence.

I attended alone with my two doggies to a food site. It’s one of these places you have to go to the counter and it was crowed but I saw a free table so I tied my doggies and went to the counter.
While I was ordering, an elderly woman sat at my table. When I return with my order, of course, the first I thought was that she didn’t notice my dogs. I came back, told her and she says that she notices it so I asked her. Are you alone? She says yes and I told her, so there’s not problem, that we could share the table.
We had a quite interesting conversation and the woman thanked to me. WIN WIN 😀
The important in this short moment we have in life is the attitude. It makes a world of difference.

This is exactly the term: adult.

The manners, decency, courtesy ship sailed long ago. People are simply rude these days. Every now and then I come across a gem and genuinely thank them for making my day better but unfortunately that's not the norm.

The law of the jungle. Tell me if we have evolve a single bit.

From my perspective, you did everything exactly as I would have done it. I can not stand these little "Karens" that make a boatload of assumptions and act out without the slightest idea what they're talking about. This fake virtue signaling while acting like a little child is so immature, to me its a borderline mental episode where they should be taken away in a straight jacket..

Sadly, I think you're right on that. When I actually cross paths with a caring human being with common sense, I feel like I've found an ancient relic. I want to hug them, take their picture and put it in a museum. Ha!

Thank you Embracingtruth. We tried so hard to handle the situation assertively, but with decency. This woman's behavior was abnormal. And I think if we had been more aggressive in standing up for ourselves I don't think she would have let it go. She was that type that had to get the last word as evidenced by the fact she would not shut her mouth even after getting what she wanted from us. Then the police may have been called and it would have ruined my friend's special night out as well as all the innocent people around us that just wanted to eat dinner. I hope Karma comes back to teach this woman a lesson. The fact that this "Karen" thinks she can tell people what to do and act like a jerk is going to get her in big trouble one of these days. She's going to cross the wrong person's path and she will be sorry she ever opened her nasty mouth. She's lucky we were kind people.

Could we not use “Karen”. It’s inappropriate racist term. And many women on here are actually named Karen.

Sorry about that. I'll refer to her as something else. But I don't want to take away from the larger message being that there seems to be an epidemic in this country (not sure about others) of people thinking they can violate other's personal space without a care in the world and publicly abuse them. Something is very wrong.

The joys of living in a small town. People don't do this because everyone knows each other or soneone who does & they know better than to make someone mad or attack for some stupid reason

Thank you to everyone here who took the time to read my post about my situation. I'm putting your suggestions into practice. Life has it's fair share of bumps in the road. I'm thankful to have a place like this forum to discuss issues and ideas for making things better. I'll try to be as helpful to others as they are to me.

Wow, that woman was very rude! Next time, have your friend or yourself get the manager to take care of things immediately.

As for her inappropriate touching, your friend shouldn’t have been so polite. It would’ve been perfectly acceptable to day, excuse me, but please don’t touch me. Or just move.

It’s actually better to be rude & hurt someone’s feelings in this case in order to protect one’s personal space & body. Please let your friend know that.

If that lady was goimg to rage at that, then that’s on her. Then you could’ve gotten the manager to kickher out of the place if necessary.

To hell with people like her. People need to stand up to bullies like her more often. That’s why people like her do what they do.

Maybe a lot of people may not agree with me, but speak up or get the manager involved. Don’t just sit there & take the abuse.

Just try to reason with the person first. It’s called communication, not escalation.

Thanks Jesyka. Yeah, I think the touching is what angered me the most. Wondered if she was trying in a misguided way to use hands as a form of apology or was it as a show of dominance.? Who knows. My friend handled it the way she wanted to. I would have given her a loud “keep your hands to yourself!” as I’m more aggressive in nature and I have less patience the older I get. But it’s hard nowadays to walk that fine line of sticking up for yourself without ending up on YouTube because someone pulled their phone out and filmed you in an altercation. These are different times we live in. I guess the old saying still holds true “speak softly but carry a large stick”.

I’ve been thinking around what eskielover said about existing some kind of social brake in small towns and rural areas.
It seems as the more anonymous we see ourselves, the more savage we are.

I would have done exactly what you and your friend did it, after trying to reason with her. Sometimes, people are under stress and who knows perhaps this woman was having a bad day. I’m not trying to justify her, please, don’t see it like that. Only, wondering because I’ve been myself sometimes rude in different occasions especially when I have to go for having bureaucratic stuff that I hate as hell. But, now, with a different attitude everything goes smoothly.

I’ve been also guilty of being rude and it’s good to remember these kind of things. 😀

I thought about this possibility. Maybe this woman just got terrible news about herself or family member, got fired from her job, etc...Truly, I look to give people the benefit of the doubt. Only thing that made me cross that boundary into thinking she was just plain nasty was she followed my friend spewing confrontational words even after my friend gave her what she wanted. That was over the line in my opinion. I think someone lashing out due to personal stress would have lashed out once then just shut up with the aweful realization of "What is wrong with me? What am I doing?" This woman seemed bent on grinding her point in to the point of flat out harrassment. So given that I feel she crossed the line of forgiveness.

Given all that happened...I will search out the ones who lift me up, be thankful when I find them, and find solace in their example when I cross paths with meanness. We truly do lift each other up by example. If every negative experience causes me to learn and gain new insight, then it was a positive afterall I suppose.

It sounds like a comtrol or dominance sort of issue to me. That’s why a manager should be involved next time. Please tell your friend to get a manager involved next time.

I can’t believe the idiots who just stand there & record things on their phone. So rude. I would’ve told that rude woman off!