How to start a fight

When you see me expressing my honest feelings and asserting myself, using I-statements and describing emotions and everything, take note. If you want a sure-fire way to turn a discussion into a full-blown fight, here’s what to do. This is GUARANTEED to get me into fight mode.

If, on the other hand, you want a peaceful resolution, this is what not to do.

1. Order me to stop feeling or expressing an emotion because you don’t want to hear it. For example, if I show frustration or annoyance to any degree at all, even mildly, useful fight-producing phrases include, “Don’t get mad at me.” “Knock it off.” “Quit acting like that.”

2. Cut me off and talk over me because you don’t want to hear what I’m saying.

3. Get up and leave the room when I’m still in the middle of a sentence, because you don’t like what I’m saying.

4. Use dismissive, belittling and minimizing terms to describe my emotions. Remember, I am never angry, annoyed, frustrated, or upset. I am instead “getting pissy” or “in one of my moods.”

5. Always attribute my expression of emotions to mental illness. My feelings are never legitimate. They are always symptoms. You may want to ask me if I need to call my doctor, or if I’ve taken my medicine today.

Your sarcasm made me kinda laugh, especially in #5. Then I realized that these are likely various scenarios that you've experienced with someone who likes to fight with you. I'm so sorry... those are all abusive statements and behaviors that the person is exhibiting. Is this your partner who is doing that to you? Your post is a bit ambiguous, so I am not sure what you're looking for from the community with this thread? I've experienced these scenarios with my ex narc husband who is abusive. What a horrible memory. He did all those and then some to me, which always started a fight, inevitably. Nasty, knock down drag out fights that would last for hours. Uggghhhhhh. Not a pleasant memory.

It’s my husband. He responds this way every single time I express any kind of annoyance or frustration. It’s OK for HIM to mumble and cuss under his breath when some little thing happens, but I am not even permitted a loud sigh.

Then, ironically, he will accuse *me* of “trying to start a fight.”

Yes, last night when he did this, I told him he was being abusive to me. He didn’t like that at all, of course, but I finally managed to get the point across that saying a particular action is abusive isn’t the same as calling him an abuser. Sometimes my actions are abusive too, and I have to work on that.

Thank you so much for the support.

My ex abusive husband used to tell me I was starting fights all the time, when it was HIM who was starting them. Projection, which is another emotional and verbal abuse tactic. My ex was similar to yours. He was allowed to say "ouch" in response to ME, but I wasn't allowed to say "ouch" in response to him. It made me insane... very maddening.

So, what is keeping you in this toxic marriage? I describe it as toxic because those behaviors you describe in him are highly toxic behaviors.

@Arbie do either you or your husband use alcohol or other drugs?

Does your husband have ADHD?

Both of these can contribute to relationship dysfunction. Men that have ADHD notoriously struggle when it comes to sitting still and listening to emotional drama. Men with ADHD often project negative emotions when they get overwhelmed and they tend to unknowingly take up space. This can seem to be a narcissistic abuser however it’s not the same.

Add alcohol or drugs into the mix and problems get magnified leading to mean drunk behaviors and even blackouts.

My favorite is "I don't know why you are upset!"

Well, I'm not, but if you continue to tell me that I am, I certainly will be.

No alcohol or drug use involved. As far as we know, hubby doesn't have ADHD, but he did once tell me he thinks in images rather than words. I think in words. So if he has to translate my words to images, and then back again to communicate his images to me, I can see where he'd have trouble.

Hubby was raised by an abusive father. I think in some cases he just doesn't know better.

I don't believe the marriage itself is toxic, even though those behaviors certainly are. My physical and mental health has improved by leaps and bounds since we've been together. Where I was severely hurt by situations in past relationships, I know it doesn't sound like it, but in this marriage I've found a lot of healing. The behaviors, yes. The whole marriage, no.

Because as slowly as it happens, he does learn. Eventually we can talk it over. He and I were both feeling abused by the other when this conflict happened, and yes, I was being abusive to him also. Fortunately, we did get around to discussion and problem solving.

He cut me off because, as he saw it, I had already said it. I explained to him that while I had *started* to say it about four times, he hadn't allowed me to finish the sentence. If I don't think I was heard the first, second, or third time I say something, I am going to say it the fourth. I'd like for him to give me some indication that he heard me, and then repeating myself won't be necessary.

He left the room in the middle of my sentence because he felt like he was being verbally abused. Granted, a therapist did say that if our discussions get heated, we need to back off and pick it up later when we're calmer. That's what he was trying to do. I recommended that he wait until I finish my sentence, and then TELL me he's leaving the room. It's the same thing as when it happens on the phone. He doesn't like for me to just hang up on him in anger. He wants me to tell him I can't continue the discussion right now, and that I'm going to hang up. Whether hanging up or leaving the room, same principle. Works both ways.

I have discussed with him that just because I may be angry doesn't mean I'm mad *at him.* I just need to be allowed the vent.

By the way: As for #5 on the list, hubby freely admits he can't tell the difference between a strong expression of emotion vs. a psychological issue. One time I started crying during a therapy session, and hubby looked at the therapist like, "See? This is what happens. Doesn't she need some kind of intervention or something?" The (male) therapist had to assure him I was only expressing an emotion, not having a mental health crisis, and no, I don't need to be evaluated for possible hospitalization JUST because I'm crying. It happens all the time in his office, and it's perfectly normal. Hubby was genuinely surprised by this.

It sounds like your husband gets very frustrated when you get emotional. He makes those statements because he really is at a loss in how to help you.

I struggle with ptsd myself so I know how emotional triggers can take over and the strong desire to put it into words. Also to have a presence that is able to use comforting validating words.

My husband has ADHD and like many of his piers he was never diagnosed. We are both in our sixties. I have had to learn to understand that my husband is not able to take in long conversations. To determine he is an abuser or bad is just as bad as blaming me for having ptsd. Men with ADHD often have a history of being punished for having ADHD instead of helped.

How can the marriage not to be toxic when you have these types of toxic incidents and behaviors occurring? Toxicity is not isolated like that. How can the marriage possibly be healthy? A person can still be thriving or doing better, and can still be abused. Perhaps you're not ready to accept this reality about your marriage.

Your husband disrespects you. And you cannot teach someone to respect you. They either do or they don't and that's the way you get treated.

From what you described, explaining yourself to him does not mean you are being verbally abusive. Are you getting that accusation and claim from him?

Him walking out of the room while you're in mid-sentence is disrespect and total disregard. Him interrupting you and talking over you is abusive and disrespectful.

I suspect that you're so used to these behaviors that it's hard for you to see how abusive they really are.

If you are in fact abusive yourself, please, if you would, describe an incident whereby you thought you were being abusive.. what was the context and what was he doing and saying to you at the time?

That is ridiculous and over the top insane. You cried, so your husband thought you needed medical intervention and hospitalization? Really? Is your husband not familiar with the act of crying in the face of strong emotions?

Do you see how your husband is painting YOU as having severe medical issues just for crying, and is turning the problem around to be about YOU needing medical attention, rather than on his behaviors and treatment of you? Why were you crying? Was it because of how your husband treats you?

Sorry, but you shouldn't have to explain to someone that crying is simply an outpour of emotion. What is he, two years old?

One thing I haven’t mentioned and probably should. Hubby has strong suspicions that he may be on the autism spectrum. Both of us have PTSD from childhood abuse.

The difference between my husband and an abuser is that, although he takes a long time to do it, he does eventually learn and change his behavior. Another difference is that he is not trying to hurt me. He’s just that clueless. That’s why it takes a while for him to catch on. Change in general is difficult for him. Changing his own behavior, even more so. Final difference is that while these incidents certainly are unhealthy, they are not our normal way of doing things. Our marriage is usually peaceful and loving. It’s only when I have a strong emotion that these things happen.

I was in an abusive marriage before. My ex-husband was definitely an abuser. He was actively trying to control me and keep me beneath him. He was setting out to hurt me. Reason, he didn’t think he was anything. Putting me down and keeping me there was the only way he could feel like he stood taller than me. That’s not what’s going on in this marriage.

As for me abusing him, sometimes I get frustrated at having to do things for him that I think he could or should learn to do for himself. He’s diabetic (we both are) and he’s deathly afraid of needles. That, and his veins are deep while his nerves are right there on the surface. Finger sticks are intensely painful for him, while I think nothing of it. I’m ashamed to say that in a foul mood, when I have to do his finger sticks for him, I have called his adulthood, his manliness, and his intelligence into question. Telling him I know people with intellectual disabilities who can check their own glucose. That kind of thing. I need to shut up and help him. Nobody deserves to have things like that said to them. And I have worked on changing my behavior.

I am glad you both try to improve in every sense. I think sometimes men don’t understand crying as simply emotional reaction. Sometimes they think either something bad happened or we are mad or something. I am not a crier but there’ve been times when my husband assumed he did something wrong because I was teary eye while in reality I was watching tear-jerky movie or was emotional because my grandson made his first step. Wasn’t about him or anything bad. And my husband is emotional guy and very knowledgeable in that sense and still is clueless about tears

4&5 are so relatable for me! That's definitely the way to trigger me and make things a million times worse. Why is it so hard to listen and acknowledge?!

Sent from my SM-X200 using Tapatalk

Hubby and I had some progress.

I work part-time second shift. The recurring pattern:
1. Every day that I am scheduled to work, I set an alarm for 12:30 so I can be at work by 2:30.
2. Usually, but not always, my husband will wake me up shortly before my alarm would have gone off.
3. He will then say he "didn't know" I had the alarm set, or what time I had it set for, even though I tell him EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.

I ended up having to call in today anyway, because I'm fighting a migraine that's been going on since yesterday. But here's what happened.

Today is Saturday. I would have worked, but he's off. He came into the bedroom to wake me up at exactly 12:26. I pointed out that he'd done it again, I had my alarm set for 12:30, just like I do every day that I am scheduled. He asked, am I mad at him? I answered, I'm frustrated. "Goodbye," he said abruptly, turning around to leave the room. Remember, any time I show even the slightest degree of an unpleasant emotion, he shuts down the conversation and flees.

But today I managed to get him to listen. "Please hear me out. I will speak rationally." He stopped. I said, "Every day I'm supposed to work, I always set an alarm for 12:30. Every time you wake me up, you tell me you didn't know, even though I told you last time. I don't understand. It doesn't make sense."

It turned out, at least for today, he had a defense. He'd been on Facebook. For some weird reason neither of us knows, there was a little blue dot next to my name, which gave him the impression I was awake and on Facebook myself, even though I was neither. When he tried to show me, the little blue dot wasn't there anymore, but he's sure it was before. And I believe him, because no matter how many other annoying things he may do, he doesn't lie to me. So, thinking I was awake already, he came into the bedroom. And was confused to find me sleeping (until the loud squeaky door hinge woke me up) and not on Facebook.

Now he knows that just because he sees a blue dot next to my name, it doesn't necessarily mean I'm awake. Facebook is weird.

I pointed out that if he stops all conversation the minute I get even the tiniest bit upset, then things like this won't come to light, and nothing will get resolved. He admitted that's true. So now we'll see if there is any progress, beginning tomorrow, with either him waking me up before my alarm would have gone off, because he "didn't know," or with him shutting down and leaving the room at the slightest sign of emotion.

I think the blue dot means you have posts that he hasn't seen yet. The waking you thing is weird but good that he doesn't lie to you, that's pretty special! I hope your migraine's over or getting ready to leave.