Changing my responses

Wow....all that time & she hasn't even asked about the kids or really tried to get together with them....What a schmuck.

I have to admit when I left my husband (my daughter had already moved out of state) I wasn't sure what she thought of me for doing that. It took awhile to know that she was ok with it & actually understood. That was a relief for me because his mom thought I was evil & that her son was the saint.

Sounds like your kids could care less if they ever hear from their mom? They are probably feeling so much relief from the stress they don't want to go back to that & they may feel so.much relief that they aren't mourning as they may not even see/feel it as a loss.

I’ve talked to them about connecting with their mom often

Ultimately the youngest said “You have to stop! This makes me insecure! I need to be safe here!”

She was physically aggressive with the oldest when he was a boy. Those stories have continued to trickle out. She’d pushed him to the floor and cursed him out. Never struck him. He raged at me for trying to talk about peace. I told him, There’s validation you need that I can’t give you. I’m not trying to work against you. I just want you to feel whole. He understood that but told me it was over and to stop.

Done.

I haven’t tried to get her to show an interest in the kids since March 2023. She leaves small gift bags at the door at odd times on their birthdays but that’s been it. Not one question about them.

In May last year one of the kids needed to see a doctor and I realized she’d taken the insurance info and cards. When I texted her and told her I needed it, she texted back a picture of their cards and birth certificates on her sofa and said “you’re never getting these” and STILL never asked why we were going to the doctor

Sometimes when I really question myself, I remind myself…. If someone raised my kids in my stead, I’d feel indebted to them and speak about them respectfully. I was never afforded that.

Yeah, I’m lonely sometimes. And being around couples is hard and being around cynical singles is hard. I’m not cynical. I believe in love, marriage and commitment to a partner still. I speak to the kids hopefully about their future lives and families.

Actually confronting that the person I was DEVOTED to was just a shell, a veneer, and not a whole person is staggering.

As I’ve said before. By my nature I’m a problem solver, and I’m good at making sense of things in the world. It’s in my nature to ruminate and try to solve this. I bet I’ve written and deleted a hundred emails this year. I haven’t FULLY accepted she’s unreachable, but I HAVE accepted anything I say or do could be twisted against me in court. So I’ve let my lawyer do the talking since a long time now.

RDM

Sometimes I think kids have the wisdom we try hard to talk & think our way out of. I wish I had listened to my young self before I got married telling myself "not to" instead of thinking & talking my way into it. Lol....life might just be a lot less complex

Save that email she sent you of the insurance cards and birth records. You have full custody so she has no right to deny you of those records. You should share that email with your lawyer.

Seeing the truth can be hard and heart breaking. We can love someone that just is not capable of loving us back. I think you projected your values on her and she is showing you that she is not the person you imagined her to be.

It sounds like your ex is a person who got seriously damaged somewhere along the line. Probably something was wrong in the dynamics of the family she came from. Nobody gets that twisted all by themselves. She had help.

It's good that your kids are with you in a stable environment where they feel safe and loved. They deserve that. Hopefully, they can come to see their mother as a troubled person. They should not be put in situations where they are vulnerable to being maltreated by her. I wouldn't force them to hang out with her. But feeling contempt toward her should be discouraged. For all we know, how she is may be all that she's capable of being. That doesn't mean she gets a right to make trouble for you and the kids. Boundaries have to be set and maintained. Life will impose a cost on her for any bad choices she has made or will make. If she stays remote from involvement with her children, that may actually be in their best interests.

I think part of why this has been so hard for me is because I haven’t indulged in any anger. It’s been important to me that I feel and process things. That’s left me more vulnerable though.

I don’t foster or hold any contempt. It’s more disbelief and being Incredulous at things she’s said and done. I think she’s a damaged soul.

The thing is, I would have loved her despite that.

A few years back my oldest was in a bad, frantic, dramatic relationship. Recently he said “Don’t you remember what you told me? You said when you hear about a drowning there are often two people. A drowning person will use you like a life raft and pull you down with them. You said, you offer them a line or throw them a life jacket but it’s up to them to grab it. Do the same in your relationships.

Dad, you gotta let her sink or we all go down.”

Moving on.

RDM

It’s been hard to recover too because part of the process is gaining and accepting external validation.

I feel guilty anytime I tell someone the truth about things that occurred here. It’s been hard to accept who she is, but also not trying to sully her reputation.

I’ve needed validation, and so have the kids, which would require telling our story. But doing that tarnishes her. So. It’s easier to have very limited contacts.

RDMercer

Do those people you tell your story to have anything to do with your "wife" that it could possibly "tarnish" her?

I found that my now ex never had anything to do with "our" friends after I left so when I told them the TRUTH about the situation they never saw him anyway. Besides, if TRUTH tarnishes then so be it. My daughter got the facts on everything her dad did before & after I left. I never said anything bad about him but gave her the facts so she could understand what was happening. He lied about the facts. I just let her deal with her handling of that. He was a good dad to her growing up...he was just a crappy husband our whole marriage. She has a right to know the truth so she can understand what is going on. I don't talk about feelings or even my opinions to her but I do provide facts. Up to others how they "feel" about it

We’ve latched onto a retired former colleague of mine and his family. There’s no crossover there. My wife never met him. Because the kids often came to work with me he’d known them since 10 years.

And a few other families who stepped up in the early days and said “we always knew something was up. You and the kids are welcome here anytime “. I’m blessed for those families.

I think part of the isolation feeling comes from socializing as a single person. I just struggle with that I think.

I also feel like I have to justify or explain umpteen different things. I know I don’t cognitively I just feel that way.

The kids and you are in a good position to validate each other because you all, at the same time, lived through this experience of dealing with this damaged woman. Family counseling for the kids and you, together as a group, might be very helpful. The details of how your marriage disintegrated is no one else's business. When we feel we've been treated badly, it is gratifying to hear others confirm that we were used or abused. But I wouldn't go confiding to people at random. Close family and old friends might be okay to confide in. Support groups like this are appropriate for sharing your situation and getting feedback.

People are nosey. New people you meet will be curious about why your kids are with you and where's their mother. Don't mistake curiosity for empathy.

We’re entering family counselling

The kids are in individual counselling and we’ve talked about stuff at home, but they want a structured environment to talk.

That will be good for you all & should be good for bonding you all even closer together

----->When we feel we've been treated badly, it is gratifying to hear others confirm that we were used or abused. But I wouldn't go confiding to people at random. Close family and old friends might be okay to confide in. Support groups like this are appropriate for sharing your situation and getting feedback.

People are nosey. New people you meet will be curious about why your kids are with you and where's their mother. Don't mistake curiosity for empathy.<----

ITA with this.

One of the toughest, and potentially confusing, parts of recovering from being immersed in someone else's disorder, is how good the truth actually feels. Once you take the rose colored glasses off, and quit covering for/catering to the disordered person, there can be a sense of reality and freedom that you haven't felt in a long time. It feels good and you want to stay in that vein- want the other person to finally be responsible for their share of the mess.

But it's confusing because we still doubt ourselves. It's natural and normal to look to other people to validate us, but not everyone is appropriate for that role, and even then it's a good idea to contemplate the details and just how much to share with them. Sharing too much, or the wrong thing, can end up being off-putting.

Only share any gritty details with people that you know are unconditionally in your corner. Other people get a glossed over version, or nothing at all - and that's generally only if they ask the questions to begin with. It's important to own your truth, but there can be a fine line before you risk coming across as "playing the victim" (even if you legitimately are the victim).

You don’t have to be angry. I find for myself the strongest feeling is deep disappointment. I would rather distance then engage in toxic interactions. I was betrayed badly by an older sister I thought was safe to love and trust. Well, it turned out that she was extorting thousands from my parents and lied to them in telling them it was me. I was very close to my parents and was devastated when I learned how she was gaslighting them to not trust me.

I pray they are in heaven and know the truth. I learned that you can love someone who will rip the rug out from under you even though they are family.