Changing my responses

So true. Can be so hard to keep to this. They drag it on and on.... to the depths of insanity even sometimes. We Need and Deserve to preserve our peace and integrity against their relentless picking at invisible faults (in us) and their stupid mind games.

You're both right.

And we get dragged into it because we are seeking emotional validation from someone who SHOULD be on our side.

But we end up saying....

"I'M NOT ANGRY AND I'M NOT CRAZY!!! SEE??? IT'S EVERYONE ELSE BUT ME!"

Does he actually spend time with the grandkids or do you just bring them over for him to look at? Maybe you could shift to doing outtings on neutral ground? Like go the park or go carting or something, and he can come interact with them through an activity? Rather than allowing opportunity for this discussion?

Quote:

Originally Posted by RDMercer You're both right. And we get dragged into it because we are seeking emotional validation from someone who SHOULD be on our side. But we end up saying.... "I'M NOT ANGRY AND I'M NOT CRAZY!!! SEE??? IT'S EVERYONE ELSE BUT ME!"

May not just be validation we are seeking but also letting them not think their statements are correct with a no response from us. Then they go on in their ignorant bliss thinking they were correct & won. I lived around that situation all my life & even now it is hard for me to be silent when I know someone is WRONG or at least there is more than their way of understanding.

Eskie...

My oldest is a big kid now.

He asked, "Why do so many of the family think you're difficult or something?"

Because I stopped taking crap when I was a teenager. If you are going to take an unprovoked jab at me, we ARE going to talk about it.

And yes, seesaw, Dad is a good grand dad to them. He does enjoy them. Too preachy at times. Takes jabs at them too sometimes. BUT, mostly good as long as it is within his realm of comfort.

My kids have 300+ games behind them in various sports, and have never had a family member in attendance. My wife went to a good portion of them, and I went to all, but never extended family.

Actually.... My parents saw my oldest at one basketball game, and one other event.

Now that you have taken time to learn about toxic/disordered/narcissistic behavior patterns it can truly get you to see these behaviors exhibited by others in your past.

From what you have shared about your father, he had faced the toxic behavior that comes with alcohol abuse that your mother engaged in. It’s important to remember that your father did the best he could and stuck it out and stayed married. He did not have the information and support that is available now. It sounds like he did not understand the affects the challenge he faced with your mother also had an adverse affect on you and your sibling.

We tend to think our parents should know more than they do and that when they failed to comfort us as we needed that they don’t care. Yet, it’s important to understand that adults don’t have all the answers and like ourselves they were learning as challenges came up and did not have the information we have now.

A person gets to an age where they don’t want to go back over their past. It is often too stressful for mind and body and can also bring up emotions that can damage whatever relationship they have now.

Please know that my input is not an attempt to excuse behaviors that can be invalidating. You deserve to have your challenges validated. Instead I am trying to help you think about the responses you get and any criticisms you get as proof of inability in other individuals to provide you with more desirable and understanding and caring responses.

Thanks for this! This is me, The Scapegoat....

"A person gets to an age where they don’t want to go back over their past. It is often too stressful for mind and body and can also bring up emotions that can damage whatever relationship they have now"

So....

Dad will go into extreme detail about all he endured while mom was drinking; on the phone, in person, and on email. Unprompted.

Simply saying, "I was there too. Do you want to hear it from my perspective? Have you ever once, ever, asked what it was like for anyone else?"

Gets a response of, "Why do you have to keep dragging up the past? Why can't you let anything go?", and a follow-up call from mom saying, "RD darling why can't you just move on and let bygones be bygones? Why can't we have peace?"

..... ????...... All about a past I never brought up or asked to revisit.

Holy geez.

True story. Happened last month.

So it sounds like he wants a relationship with his grandkids but not to have to do anything.

I'd stop going to see him and when he asks give him a game schedule and say you're welcome to join us at any of these events.


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This reminds me of when my narcissistic ex client/friend was bad mouthing and gossiping about this woman we had hired bc she was just totally failing and didn't have the skills to do the job.

I mentioned a few things, including that dumping this all (her work) on me while my dog was dying (yes, I was taking him to be put to sleep that week) was upsetting me. I was agreeing with my ex client that the woman's incompetence was annoying and angering.

And my client did a 180 and started calling me unprofessional for talking about the woman and said I was damaging our professional relationship.

You kind of get whiplash from how fast they do a 180 when you're literally just talking about what they were talking about.

It's like turning the corner and seeing a rattlesnake.

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Classic narcissist behavior... As soon as it's not all about him, and him alone, he's done. SMH.

This is showing you that he can’t validate how your mother’s drinking and how that created conflict in their relationship affected you (his children). Instead he is looking for validations and comfort. And your mother just wants it to go away because she can’t see her way to seeing things from anyone’s point of view but her own. Your father is looking for a big that a boy because he paid the bills and kept the marriage together despite how hard it was for him.

Unfortunately, this happens a lot in relationships where there is alcohol or drug abuse in the mix. Alcohol abuse is a very narcissistic disorder and hurts all involved with the person. And the person engages in covert acts of denial and play the victim.

"And your mother just wants it to go away because she can’t see her way to seeing things from anyone’s point of view but her own"

You won't hear me say anything against Mom. She was always a wonderful person. I don't know why she turned to alcohol, but I believe she was emotionally lonely. She has always been immensely kind, thoughtful and careful with our emotions. She committed fully to stopping drinking and she did. She's a very compassionate and emotionally intelligent person.


Today I got overwhelmed and talked to one of my Dad's sisters.

She said....

In case no one's told you, your father has some, maybe a lot, of narcissistic traits. But he's not a bad person. If you're expecting him to feel what you're feeling, he can't and he doesn't understand it. He will always think he's right. We just let him. Who cares. If you accept this as a mental illness, or a mental inability, you'll start having more peace. The stuff you're expecting is confusing and distressful to him. He's very giving in HIS way. Just let it be that.

Holy. Moley.

I need time to adjust to this, but I think.... I think she hit it.

Obviously I don't know the details of your family, but just wanted to say that many people with substance problems are the victims of other forms of abuse, including narcissistic. If one's never learned good processing/coping mechanisms, the anxiety, cognitive dissonance, guilt, shame, etc is often dealt with through substances. Some narcissists are addicts, but hardly all addicts are narcissists.

And sometimes having an addict on hand benefits the narcissist. Easy target or scapegoat, or someone to prove just how wonderful they are, trying to care for, and help, this unfortunate person.

That's a trip that your family member spoke openly about how the they accept his ways and just do their own thing. That, sadly, really is about all you can do with a narc. But I'll add to that, you do need strong boundaries in place. Boundaries don't set the other person straight, or change the other person directly. Boundaries are a civil way of you finding the edges of yourself, living into and liking who YOU are, and not allowing another person to overstep where they're not invited.

"Boundaries are a civil way of you finding the edges of yourself"

That's beautiful.

Thank you

Just saying...

It's the weekend.

My oldest and I made dinner together Friday evening. Youngest went to a friend's for a sleepover.

After dinner, we all went to the neighbors' for dessert and a visit.

Youngest came home after lunch. We did laundry and worked on cars and cleaned all day.

This evening the kids friends and girlfriends came over, and the parents of one of the kids.

We all had pizza, garlic fingers, and shrimp. The big kids hung out in the basement with the stereo just bumping. Then all eight of us hung out and played board games and card games all night.

The kitchen table is still full with kids and adults playing games...

This is so easy and so good.

RDM

I had something happen at work recently where I verbally shut someone down.

Yesterday I had an hour long meeting with my way up the ladder boss. I was told that this is what has held me back over the years. I have more knowledge, education, ability, technical ability, and a broader skill set than anyone else in my organization, and I have contributed to more projects and initiaves that have remained part of our organization for in excess of ten years in some cases, but once in a while, "happens less than 5% of the time" I "school" someone.

I was told that even though the things I say may be valid, my sudden ability to shut someone down makes it hard to work with me.

I was told, there has never been a complaint about my conduct from a female colleague. I was told my female colleagues speak well of me and feel supported. I have a history of out producing my contemporaries, and a history of supporting new hires, and supporting the organization by ensuring a smooth transition of work flow from me to other staff anytime responsibilities or portfolios have changed, thereby ensuring there is no lost production or backward steps in the organization.

But sometimes I shut people down.

I said I know I have done that. I said I am overflowing with frustration and lost progress in things I have contributed to. That there have been projects I have contributed to, in some cases for years, and the work has been lost..... truly... Digital files that another team member lost, and then lost again. I told my boss, "You don't know how frustrating that is, and how foolish we look on the front line to a client."

Boss said, "I understand that."

I said, "No you don't. It's really bad and extremely frustrating. We lost our way as an organization for several years, and we re-doing years worth of work, again."

Boss said, "See? That is a perfect example of the issue with you. You just corrected me. You schooled me."

I said "Do you have an understanding of what this is like dealing with this on a daily basis?"

Boss: "Well... No.... But you can't make people feel like that. You snap people to attention and school them. Because of that, I can't make you part of a cohesive team anywhere in the organization, so there really isn't a way to advance you."

Wow.



The thing is.... This mirrors my personal life so much.

I'm so tired of being "the angry and difficult" one.


RDMercer

I tend to be like you. If someone is doing something wrong they need to learn it is not ok & I am usually the one to clue them in.

Think your company is a reflection on society.....let the wrong go unschooled because we don't want to hurt their feelings or make them feel wrong even though they are (hurting the company in this case) or hurting others. Lack of accountability stinks