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RDMercer
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Default Mar 29, 2024 at 03:57 PM
  #61
You know what Eskie?

I figured I'd hear from you.

Thank you
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Default Mar 29, 2024 at 04:13 PM
  #62
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I had something happen at work recently where I verbally shut someone down.


Yesterday I had an hour long meeting with my way up the ladder boss. I was told that this is what has held me back over the years. I have more knowledge, education, ability, technical ability, and a broader skill set than anyone else in my organization, and I have contributed to more projects and initiaves that have remained part of our organization for in excess of ten years in some cases, but once in a while, "happens less than 5% of the time" I "school" someone.


I was told that even though the things I say may be valid, my sudden ability to shut someone down makes it hard to work with me.


I was told, there has never been a complaint about my conduct from a female colleague. I was told my female colleagues speak well of me and feel supported. I have a history of out producing my contemporaries, and a history of supporting new hires, and supporting the organization by ensuring a smooth transition of work flow from me to other staff anytime responsibilities or portfolios have changed, thereby ensuring there is no lost production or backward steps in the organization.


But sometimes I shut people down.


I said I know I have done that. I said I am overflowing with frustration and lost progress in things I have contributed to. That there have been projects I have contributed to, in some cases for years, and the work has been lost..... truly... Digital files that another team member lost, and then lost again. I told my boss, "You don't know how frustrating that is, and how foolish we look on the front line to a client."


Boss said, "I understand that."


I said, "No you don't. It's really bad and extremely frustrating. We lost our way as an organization for several years, and we re-doing years worth of work, again."


Boss said, "See? That is a perfect example of the issue with you. You just corrected me. You schooled me."


I said "Do you have an understanding of what this is like dealing with this on a daily basis?"


Boss: "Well... No.... But you can't make people feel like that. You snap people to attention and school them. Because of that, I can't make you part of a cohesive team anywhere in the organization, so there really isn't a way to advance you."



Wow.






The thing is.... This mirrors my personal life so much.


I'm so tired of being "the angry and difficult" one.





RDMercer
It's hard to be a truth teller. It's why I'm not longer employable. However, I excel as a consultant/contractor, and my clients love when I give them the truth and take them to task.

When you're good at something and others are just mediocre, it can be hard to get along. Because your "just enough" will always be 20x better than their "just enough", and so you will always feel like you do more.

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Secondary Dx: Generalized Anxiety Disorder with mild Agoraphobia.

Meds I've tried: Prozac, Zoloft, Celexa, Effexor, Remeron, Elavil, Wellbutrin, Risperidone, Abilify, Prazosin, Paxil, Trazadone, Tramadol, Topomax, Xanax, Propranolol, Valium, Visteril, Vraylar, Selinor, Clonopin, Ambien

Treatments I've done: CBT, DBT, Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation (TMS), Talk therapy, psychotherapy, exercise, diet, sleeping more, sleeping less...
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Default Mar 29, 2024 at 06:27 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by RDMercer View Post
You know what Eskie?

I figured I'd hear from you.

Thank you
Lol.....I just couldn't resist.

I have experienced this so many times in my career & in my marriage. Lol.....11 years after I left he said he hated it cause I was always right but he fought me anyway cause he hated being wrong. We had one college grad who was smart but all the other engineers saw him as lazy. I actually taught him our hardware degugging system & he ended up excelling. Had a section manager who thought he knew it all & screwed up an update to a data link program I wrote because he refused to talk to me about how it was designed. A engineer who was a friend of mine took it over & worked with me to fix it. Attitude is everything. Some are willing to learn from others some just want to be the know it all & mess it up instead of asking

It is hard being better at things & not willing to settle for not even ok in silence.

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Default Mar 29, 2024 at 07:18 PM
  #64
Well, I got some validation today.

A friend said

When I look at you I see intelligence, competence, and passion. You think strategically and immediately see the big picture. I've always heard your reputation for shutting people down. You've always been all-in on every hand you're dealt, and surprised others aren't. They're right. You aren't a manager. You're a leader. They've been using you wrong for years.
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Default Mar 29, 2024 at 07:56 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by RDMercer View Post
Well, I got some validation today.

A friend said

When I look at you I see intelligence, competence, and passion. You think strategically and immediately see the big picture. I've always heard your reputation for shutting people down. You've always been all-in on every hand you're dealt, and surprised others aren't. They're right. You aren't a manager. You're a leader. They've been using you wrong for years.
What awesome validation

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Default Mar 29, 2024 at 08:03 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by RDMercer View Post
Well, I got some validation today.

A friend said

When I look at you I see intelligence, competence, and passion. You think strategically and immediately see the big picture. I've always heard your reputation for shutting people down. You've always been all-in on every hand you're dealt, and surprised others aren't. They're right. You aren't a manager. You're a leader. They've been using you wrong for years.
Exactly. Managers aren't leaders. They're babysitters. Leaders inspire people. They motivate people. And sometimes they shut people down when they're being stupid.

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Primary Dx: C-PTSD and Severe Chronic Treatment Resistant Major Depressive Disorder
Secondary Dx: Generalized Anxiety Disorder with mild Agoraphobia.

Meds I've tried: Prozac, Zoloft, Celexa, Effexor, Remeron, Elavil, Wellbutrin, Risperidone, Abilify, Prazosin, Paxil, Trazadone, Tramadol, Topomax, Xanax, Propranolol, Valium, Visteril, Vraylar, Selinor, Clonopin, Ambien

Treatments I've done: CBT, DBT, Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation (TMS), Talk therapy, psychotherapy, exercise, diet, sleeping more, sleeping less...
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Default Mar 29, 2024 at 08:20 PM
  #67
Thanks

BTW, @seesaw...

After that meeting, my boss told me essentially they were counting on me remaining in my current role, but advising on upcoming projects.

I said...

You realize I'm the most experienced person in our organization by 5 years. If I leave, you'll be hiring a consultant. A consultant is worth 5x my salary.

Well... Yes.

Then I'll be planning my transition out to become an entrepreneur.

"Well.... This was not the conversation I expected to have today."

"I understand, But it's been really informative for me and gives me some targets."

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Default Mar 29, 2024 at 10:10 PM
  #68
Quote:
Originally Posted by RDMercer View Post
Well, I got some validation today.

A friend said

When I look at you I see intelligence, competence, and passion. You think strategically and immediately see the big picture. I've always heard your reputation for shutting people down. You've always been all-in on every hand you're dealt, and surprised others aren't. They're right. You aren't a manager. You're a leader. They've been using you wrong for years.
This is my thinking as well. This upper boss even admitted you can do better than him. Sounds like he is a bit intimidated by you.

This is how my father was, always knowing more than his commanders when he served in WWII. When it came time for his ship that he was on to go back out on another tour I of duty the commander would not have my father go on that tour.

It ended up saving his life because that ship was hit by a torpedo and all the men in his unit were killed. Had he gone he would have also lost his life. I would not exist to write this post.

Nothing wrong with improving your behaviors. Yet you can change the lacks in others.
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Default Mar 30, 2024 at 06:28 AM
  #69
These conversations can give you an idea of where you are. However, itís important to give it thought before deciding to make any changes. Also donít react with ďthen I am leavingĒ as that can push things in a direction thatís not helpful at all. Instead itís better to make a move when you have a plan so you can cover your expenses of your mortgage etc.
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Default Mar 30, 2024 at 07:35 AM
  #70
My actual response was less direct.

It was something like,

Then it's time for me to plan my transition out of here in the next two years. It might be time to look at entrepreneurial opportunities.
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Default Mar 30, 2024 at 11:11 AM
  #71
Why donít you look into being a consultant? See what is available in the job market.
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Default Apr 02, 2024 at 08:26 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by RDMercer View Post
I had something happen at work recently where I verbally shut someone down.

But sometimes I shut people down.

I said I know I have done that. I said I am overflowing with frustration and lost progress in things I have contributed to. That there have been projects I have contributed to, in some cases for years, and the work has been lost..... truly... Digital files that another team member lost, and then lost again. I told my boss, "You don't know how frustrating that is, and how foolish we look on the front line to a client."

Boss said, "I understand that."

I said, "No you don't. It's really bad and extremely frustrating. We lost our way as an organization for several years, and we re-doing years worth of work, again."

Boss said, "See? That is a perfect example of the issue with you. You just corrected me. You schooled me."

I said "Do you have an understanding of what this is like dealing with this on a daily basis?"

Boss: "Well... No.... But you can't make people feel like that. You snap people to attention and school them. Because of that, I can't make you part of a cohesive team anywhere in the organization, so there really isn't a way to advance you."

Wow.

RDMercer
Not to be critical, but only to offer a data point on this issue.

I have attempted in the past to point out that you seem "stuck" or stagnant in moving out of your marriage and ruminate over events that occurred in the past.

Your responses to me were that I don't understand how fill-in-the-blank it is for you, your wife is a covert narcissist, etc. Then you have lectured me about covert narcissism and loop back to how unless I can understand YOU, I have nothing of importance for you to consider.

After a few tries in getting you unstuck, I no longer offer my observations because it is too difficult. You will always respond with how I cannot possibly understand due to fill-in-the-blank.

Life does not require that people understand you. If you want to work collaboratively and as part of a team and perhaps progress in your career as a result of that, it actually requires that you put your nose to the grindstone and do the work, without blaming others for not understanding YOU.

My experience in observing your posts over the years is that you will only respond favorably to posts enabling your current behavior or taking "your" side on an issue. The responses after you described the work encounter testify to that as well. There are a couple of people who will always explain away any difficulty you have with others by saying the other person is intimidated/narcissistic/alcoholic/unreasonable and you will always gravitate to those responses almost immediately and use them to justify your position.
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Default Apr 02, 2024 at 09:11 AM
  #73
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After a few tries in getting you unstuck
Sticking my nose in here....from my own personal experience, NO ONE can get anyone else unstuck. That is a "fixer" mentality. A person has to go through & process what has happened in their own life & figure out how they will move on. Sometimes that takes more time than others & venting in posts here helps that processing more than any of the replies do. That is exactly why, no one actually understands & the responses are not accurate because no one can actually understand what a person is going through or how they are going through it. We are not STUCK.....we are just in the process of processing what happened & how we will handle it.

Quote:
Life does not require that people understand you. If you want to work collaboratively and as part of a team and perhaps progress in your career as a result of that, it actually requires that you put your nose to the grindstone and do the work, without blaming others for not understanding YOU.
From reading his post , this isn't about not doing the work....it is about correcting those doing the work with him so he doesn't end up having to do their work over on top of his. Big difference.

Quote:
There are a couple of people who will always explain away any difficulty you have with others by saying the other person is
There are often people in our lives that do CAUSE the difficulties in our lives (unless we get rid of them from our lives before it gets to that point). If not it is at that point we have to figure out how to deal with them & figure out a new direction in our life. Neither of those things can be done in a blink of an eye & take time to figure out & like correcting the direction of a boat, it takes numerous adapting with the rudder to get out of a messy situation. It doesn't just magically happen with one thought or someone else telling you what to do.

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Default Apr 02, 2024 at 10:57 AM
  #74
^^^^

Thank you eskie! I was sitting here wanting to respond and your post reflects my own sentiments. I think RD has been making progress. It simply doesnít happen overnight, you are correct on that.
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Default Apr 06, 2024 at 05:00 PM
  #75
@RDMercer checking in to see how you are doing.
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Default Apr 07, 2024 at 11:54 AM
  #76
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Not to be critical, but only to offer a data point on this issue.

I have attempted in the past to point out that you seem "stuck" or stagnant in moving out of your marriage and ruminate over events that occurred in the past.

Your responses to me were that I don't understand how fill-in-the-blank it is for you, your wife is a covert narcissist, etc. Then you have lectured me about covert narcissism and loop back to how unless I can understand YOU, I have nothing of importance for you to consider.

After a few tries in getting you unstuck, I no longer offer my observations because it is too difficult. You will always respond with how I cannot possibly understand due to fill-in-the-blank.

Life does not require that people understand you. If you want to work collaboratively and as part of a team and perhaps progress in your career as a result of that, it actually requires that you put your nose to the grindstone and do the work, without blaming others for not understanding YOU.

My experience in observing your posts over the years is that you will only respond favorably to posts enabling your current behavior or taking "your" side on an issue. The responses after you described the work encounter testify to that as well. There are a couple of people who will always explain away any difficulty you have with others by saying the other person is intimidated/narcissistic/alcoholic/unreasonable and you will always gravitate to those responses almost immediately and use them to justify your position.

I'm sorry. I don't remember the early comments you reference. Was it last summer when I said I was grieving and needed time to grieve, and people round me didn't get that? And I was facing that my entire marriage may have been a facade? I pushed back at people then.

You're right, I seek validation. I've been invalidated by a lot of people around me for a long time. I've needed support far more than "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" advice.

I've blown it at work in the past year. Work became totally unmanageable, doubling my client load due to cuts with no changes in processes at a time my life was upending. Yup. Blew it, with clients and superiors several times. Now, after fifteen years of building a reputation I'm starting over.

As for teamwork.... Fifteen years of performance evaluations, multiple roles, working in collaboration with different departments and training new hires. There's no lack of nose to the grindstone. But I've been painted into a corner in the past year, and I was past my limits and I blew it.

So now, that's my reputation. Nothing prior matters.

Yes, I ruminate. Thats part of trauma recovery. Yes, I've been profoundly depressed and stuck, and now I've failed at work, which was one place I got satisfaction and respect previously

Trying to find a way to move ahead.
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Default Apr 07, 2024 at 12:03 PM
  #77
I was highly, highly regarded locally for my work, with an excellent reputation.

I've really grenaded my career, I think.

We cut positions. I had the highest client load and the biggest geography. I asked for support multiple times, but nothing changed. But my failures were reviewed regularly.

Then my abruptness with clients and other staff were used as a rationale to tell me I'm unpromotable. Which I then argued... And thereby proved I was unpromotable....Which I then apologized for and indicated things in my personal life that contributed to me being overwhelmed... Which further proved I was unpromotable.

Sigh.

Oh well. Still got a job.

But that's probably it. I'll not move from where I am.
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Default Apr 07, 2024 at 12:42 PM
  #78
@RDMercer ..... you do not know what the future holds.....I learned to "NEVER say Never". Sometimes unexpected doors open when we least expect it. Lol....I have been known to run through a door like that & never look back.

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Default Apr 07, 2024 at 03:28 PM
  #79
I can't explain how prone I am to shame and ruminating.

It's really bad. Living like I constantly wish I could disappear. Work was one place that wasn't like that.

Oh well.
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Default Apr 07, 2024 at 03:49 PM
  #80
Huh...

I just found out this is called toxic shame, and is one of the symptoms of narcissistic abuse.
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