My ex came to the house

Your friends should not have said anything to you about seeing your wife. Also, just because a man is well dressed doesn’t mean he is better. Also he may be a user that ends up just using your wife and dumping her. I question if these so called friends are people you should consider as friends. A true friend would not want to tell you things that only serve to upset you. Your wife is hoping they will report to you so you feel bad. That is what toxic people enjoy doing and get an ego boost from “ hurting others”.

Your wife is a user and anyone she is with will be used. You are better off without her. She is not and never will be the person you created in your mind that is a good person or healthy for you to have in your life.

@Open Eyes

You're right. You're completely right.

I look at the people in my life right now. There are so many good people; deeply good people that command no attention at all. It's easy to see the surface.

I think it was right for my friend to tell me that about my wife. It hurt a LOT, but all these things continue to solidify in my mind that she's not who I thought she was at all.

This may sound crazy, but I actually thought..... IF I loved her so much, and IF that was because she was merely playing a role and reflecting me back to me, THEN I bet I'll really enjoy my own company.

Like I said to a friend, I go through these periods of depression and feeling overwhelmed, then when I come out the other side, it's like I'm at a new stage in my recovery. Each new stage is fragile and needs time to develop and take root. Right now, I'm not where I was two weeks ago. And comparing this to where I was in August is a big difference, because a lot has suddenly happened and it's forced change and growth. I'm lucky I can change and grow.

I've talked before about deeply enjoying the peace and quiet here. Enjoying the complete dark and silence of the house at night, and not even wanting music on. Just craving the peace. Then that changed. There's music on much more often again. I still enjoy the peace, but the deep profound longing I used to feel during it is waning.

I think I'm someone who feels deeply, and I don't defend myself very much. I'm not a good "cognitive first" thinker. I'm more of an "emotions first" thinker. I'm working on that.

My kids are SO healthy and doing SO well. They've gone off-roading for the afternoon and I'm working at home. Yesterday we were all at a baby shower for a young couple my son has known since kindergarten. Afterwards two of them went to visit friends, and me and daughter went riding dirt bikes.

My son is taking some vacation and tonight we're watching scary movies together. The big fella is taking his kid sister to Spirit Halloween to look for costumes later today too.

My daughter's therapist called me last week just to tell me my daughter is doing, so, so much better, and to tell me how profoundly my daughter loves me.

These things are blessings.

I'm scared of court. I'm scared of being financially ruined, but I also go through periods of being hopeful. Right now, I am far more mentally prepared to see her in court than I was a few weeks ago. I'm scared I won't be as genuine in my version of things because I've had some time to heal.

Anyway. I'm OK.

Quote:

I'm scared I won't be as genuine in my version of things because I've had some time to heal.

you will be better because you are stronger & have processed what has happened & it is much clearer to you now

I genuinely feared her.

I could never understand how to explain that or why it was so extreme.

I think it was because of the extreme gaslighting, and the conditioning to just take her anger and bitterness defenselessly.

And, I'm thankful to my current therapist for pointing out that I was physically abused. Long term sleep deprivation is physical abuse. Dr Ramani talks about that as physical abuse as well. She incited panic in me by bursting into the room repeatedly to say all these heinous things to me then leaving.

I hope I'll be able to speak from a genuine place and an honest place. I'm actually scared to heal too much before I have to speak about this in court because I'm scared if I'm too calm it will reduce the legitimacy of what we experienced.

It won’t kill the legitimacy in court. You can tell the facts and give a couple of strong examples of the abuse to support the facts. Say that you were and are afraid of her. Be prepared. Your lawyer should be prepping you for that.

Thank you

This is what things are like now....

Friday, my son took a half day off work. He picked up the youngest from school before 3pm and they went exploring and offroading.

I got home about 5:30pm. He met me in the driveway and excitedly began telling me about their adventure and the things he was able to do with his truck. He has a kitten now. The kitten goes everywhere with him, including on offroad adventures.

The youngest had already gone to a board game cafe with friends for the evening. I told the big guy I had to get some laundry going and get my minivan fixed. He offered to work on it for me, but asked if his GF could come over.

Sure.

OK... Can you make us chicken stew?

Sure.

Ok... It's her laundry night but she wants to come here. Can she do laundry here?

(sigh) Sure.

He comes in two hours later from the garage, with GF and her laundry basket.

I leave supper for them and go pick up other kid from the cafe. Other kid wants to bring a friend home with her.

Sure.

We get home, and big kid and GF are gone. Daughter and friend go crazy playing with the kitten. Then they take the kitten to her room and I can hear video games and ongoing kitten play and teen girls squealing and laughing. I chill on the couch listening to old rock songs. After almost an hour I call the big kid.

He and GF have gone out to pick up nachos and cheese and other goodies and buy new board games so we can all hang out and play board games and Uno and eat when they get back.

Sure.

Saturday the big kid goes for the day with a local 4x4 club, and DD goes to her BF's house. I meet a friend for coffee in the morning, work in the garage and workout for the afternoon. My kids and their friends are all here in the evening to empty my refrigerator again.

I get a message on my phone that DD is getting an award for academic performance at school, and there's a ceremony next week.

Today, me and DD went to the neighbors for coffee and breakfast. I'm working for the afternoon and evening. There's a kitten asleep on the widow sill beside me while I'm typing this.

I still feel some inner turmoil, but the deep profound longing, and the profound rumination is subsiding. The desire to just make her see, see how good this all is, the longing to have her with me here, to see and enjoy the goodness here.... All of that is going away. I'm realizing more and more how much deep goodness is here and how healthy this all is.
The goodness of stability and ease of having friends around is really profound.

I sometimes go for in excess of 24 hours without even giving my wife a thought.

What I hear is that everyone gets to enjoy themselves including you now that the toxic presence is out of the house. You have finally been able to see that and you are realizing that your wife cannot be part of your family life. You can’t fix that either and your wife has no interest in being part of. Instead she is an intruder that you and your children have to insist on having boundaries with. Your wife has shown that she has no respect for boundaries.

@RDMercer.....what @Open Eyes said is so true. From my personal experience, I closed on my little farm in mid May 2100 miles away from my husband. It wasn't until I needed to go back to Ca for an MD appointment that the thought of my husband even crossed my mind because I was experiencing a peace in my life I had never experienced before. Even then my thoughts weren't about wanting him back in my life but how happy I actually was without him & how more normal life seemed.

My mom always said "absence makes the heart grow stronger". That was when I realized my heart never felt anything for him except the anger he created in my life. It was when I also realized that there was no way he could possibly fit into my new peaceful life. Sometimes we do need to come to those terms in our own mind & reflect back on whether in reality it ever was the "good relationship" our mind said it was when it was powered by wishful thinking. By that time I never wanted to share life with him ever again while I found out years later he was sure I would come back to him in a couple of years. When I didn't, it was only then he thought he might have been the reason I left.

Leaving was the best choice I ever made in my life & life NOW is always what I wanted even without being married. It is actually bringing out thinking into allignment with our actual REAL happiness not what we wish. That allignment is what makes us truly at peace. You have an awesome life now with your kids to be trult thankful for

Something strange happened this afternoon

I wrote that post earlier today.

Not long after, I took one of the kids out to shop for stuff for Halloween.

We were walking through the store, and I was suddenly filled with panic - What if she's here? What if I bump into her? What if she makes a scene? What if she jabs me with a comment that just isn't true here in public? What if I try to stand up for the kid and she starts saying I'm blocking contact and she has her flying monkeys with her?

We finished shopping and I swear, 20 minutes later I still felt like my blood pressure was sky high.

I thought I was past that.

Its like running into a russian assassin with a poison umbrella.

11 years after I left my husband & years of outstanding therapy, I had to go back to Calif for a court case agsinst him regarding the house we had owned together for 20 years. It was marriage assets & a month before the divorce was final in the state I live in.

I was staying at the ranch where I was bording my horse still. He was still doing night feedings of the ranch horses. I was so stressed that he was going to say or do something so stupid that it would trigger my anger again after 11 years away from seeing red (literally) when I was dealing with him. I avoided him totally for the first week & I was surprised at myself cause when he did trigger me I was able to walk away without engaging with him. Guess being away & lots of good therapy did help but I sure didn't know until it was actually tested. It is then we learn our real strength & healing.

I sure get your fear though. I had a good session with my T right before flying to Calif & we went over that very thing

I am sorry ((RD)) sadly I know exactly what you are describing. When you have experienced someone that can be unpredictable where one day or a few days they are nice and then they change and can get mean, it can slowly get into your nervous system. Unfortunately this is also how it is with your children too, especially your oldest son.

From listening to what you have shared about your wife, she always had the upper hand and only “allowed you” to have some intimacy. You were often put down and even told you would end up being a homeless bum without her. She had you convinced that YOU were the problem and you began to believe her. You genuinely believed that if you behaved and were patient and obedient you would get the love you wanted from her. She had you brainwashed RD

It doesn’t matter how attractive she is either because inside she is selfish and mean. Plus she has a problem with alcohol and that exasperated her mood changes. Alcoholics notoriously struggle with emotional maturity so they end up turning to alcohol to escape their emotions. They can also be abusive where they take out their anger and stress on others. They tend to be users and their skills tend to revolve around getting attention and drama. Your wife only has the maturity of a child, so in that she will never be a good mentor for your daughter. I think your daughter knows this, feels this but doesn’t know how to articulate it. Actually, this is familiar to you and because it’s somewhat familiar it got overlooked.

I know you feel your mom loves you, but if you really think about it your mother struggled in a very similar way to where she too escaped through alcohol. I think your son gets triggered and yet he has put in the time to learn and identify a lot. He did ask you at one point “why do you let her treat you so badly””? Well, do you understand that is because of what you dealt with growing up? Oh it’s that damn familiar that gets us. But we must not be too hard on ourselves because we just adapted not knowing the difference. It never means you are stupid either or even that you failed.

So we talk about healing and yes there is that, but there is also growing too. Your wife is not going to change and she reminds you of that every time you are exposed to her. That is going to take more time to adjust to and there will probably always be that alarm that goes off. Just don’t beat yourself up over it and I know that is easier said than done because I struggle with that myself.

I think you have gained a lot in your healing. These triggers are a reminder that the less you experience your wife the better. Let her find someone else and KNOW that person is not getting any prize.

You're right on a lot of things, but not all

Yes, this is in my nervous system. My new therapist has outright told me, "Go see your family doctor and get meds for CPTSD. This is an ingrained conditioned response in you."

Yes, my wife only "allowed" intimacy if there was a magic combination of things that came together. If the house wasn't clean enough, if the kids homework wasn't done, if the laundry was piling up, if she wasn't feeling well enough, if I hadn't done enough to woo her or date her (her words), there was no intimacy.

I think alcohol is in escape, and the amount that she consumed, for so long, has had to also affect her neurologically at this point.

This is the part I don't agree with you on. Mom loved me, and always has. She's wonderful. I always felt deeply loved by her. Looking back, her patience with me from the time I was a kid was outstanding. Mom drank, but it was distinct periods of time; all of grade 7, part of grade 9, part of grade 11, and then for several months when I was 23. Mom got help, went to meetings, went to rehab, etc. Mom's a deeply empathetic person with a traumatic past. She had problems, but she faced them.

Breaking patterns is SO important. My daughter played me on some things last week... Common teen things she was trying to get away with, and I got quite angry about it. I walked away.

Then came back and said, "I'm going to cool off. You are used to walking on eggshells and worrying that affection is going to be taken away. I'm not doing that. I'm not leaving to be distant. I'm leaving so I don't get too angry. I'll be back in a few minutes. You're safe. I love you. But you're in trouble."

Yeah.... Right now, my wife isn't as attractive to me as she was when I saw her 5 weeks ago. And I am also realizing that she isn't going to trade up, and if she does, it probably won't be for long. There's just too much chaos. And if it is long term then GREAT because I'm off the hook.

Yeah.... The nervous system panic thing sucks.

Nice to know I'm not a weirdo for it.

RDMercer

CPTSD for sure.

After years of that, you're hardwired to respond in a certain way. It potentially borders on compulsion to do so. The brain travels the paths that it travels the most- like game trails getting worn in the woods. That's how CBT works, by forging new trails (through practice) that become the new go-to trails for your brain.

As someone who's navigated a pretty severe anxiety disorder, here's something a lot of people don't want to acknowledge:

Anxiety is normal. There's no such thing as life without anxiety. It's part of life.

Anxiety becomes a problem when it inhibits your ability to stay functional.

When you can see the root cause of anxiety, it's an early warning system. It's telling you something. Perhaps that you need to do something differently? You may not know how to interact with her if you encounter her. That could be scary given that she's unpredictable and had controlled the situation for so long. Do you know the four F's? Fight, flight, fawn, and freeze? These are common ways to respond with CPTSD. You can work on avoiding these responses.

You're already healing though, and eskielover is right- once you're tested in a situation, and respond differently than you feared you would-- once you pass the test-- you'll lose a lot of your fearful feelings

@RDMercer, I appreciate that you laid out the difference between your wife and your mother. The one that has to know that the most is you. I am sure your mother genuinely loves you and is empathetic.

What I was trying to point out is the uncertainty that comes about when someone has a problem with alcohol. The ages you were when your mother was challenged doesn’t have the life skills to understand what it means. It’s unsettling in a way that these age groups can’t articulate.

It’s good to know your mother got help and support. Many fail to make that commitment.

Hi @RDMercer just checking in to see how you are doing.

I'm pretty good.

That new therapist really isn't side-stepping or being careful. I needed her bluntness.

My friend who told me about seeing my wife dating..... He's a very, very good friend. He wasn't harsh in any way when he told me. I think he was nudging me towards the next step of letting things go.

I feel..... Lighter.... A lot of the time now.

I'm struggling to find things to look forward to and work towards, but I'm working on that.

More later.

RDMercer

I think the important thing to understand is that toxic individuals have a need to have the power and control and they don’t understand what it means to collaborate. People around them are expected to fall in to place under their rule and are not really seen as separate individuals with their own talents and ideas.

Your wife constantly left you feeling powerless and always feeling that whatever was not working was your fault. The same is true for your children. Children need to have freedom to grow and develop their own personal identity. This can’t happen if a parent has mood changes and develops an addiction where they live according to their addiction which becomes their priority.

The one way to start seeing this dynamic is when that person is out of your environment and you slowly start to experience more freedom and more calm. The narcissist is the one who needs the ego fix and cheats and goes from one person to the next. The toxic person is the one who wants the power and doesn’t care about respect and boundaries. They like to create drama because it draws attention and they feel empowered when that happens.

Your wife had you convinced that you were not good enough and because you are so good natured and smitten with her physically, you believe her BS and give in. There never was a winning her over, that never works for a person who needs the kind of power fix your wife needs.

It took me a while to understand this dynamic myself. I lived through a couple of toxic situations where I was manipulated and traumatized myself. My older sister is a toxic controlling drama Queen that chose to do things I would never think to do. Like you I had to learn how individuals like this are manipulative and don’t have the same respect for others like I do.

I think you are making progress and you have been recovering yourself in a way that will make you stronger and healthier. This doesn’t happen over night.

To be fair, I didn’t fully read your post. I will. I’ll take time to digest it.

Yes, I was smitten with her physically, but it was everything…. I’ve known other attractive girls and women and other than a look they got no interest. It was unreal how much she mirrored my values. And then progressively threw them away.

A couple of things happened this week that were telling.

My DD has a BF in another town. He used to live here but moved. He’s a good kid, so I take her to see him every second Saturday.

She wanted to do something for Halloween. She was also worried about her mom showing up at the house and there being drama. I offered to drive her to see him after work. I’m killing time at a coffee shop right now.

As the day approached, she said she didn’t even want to go home in case mom showed up before I got home.

She went to a friend’s after school today and I picked her up from there.

In the drive she told me she went to the school counselor office today. A girl walked up behind her in high heels, with the same gait as her mom. She said it surprised her and flooded her with panic so much it overwhelmed her for a short time.

She said the sound of heels on cement was really bad, really triggering

I asked why

She said, because it meant mom was home, on the walk beside the house and you didn’t know what was coming next.

That made me angry. I’ve been stopping myself from writing her and telling her off for three hours now. What’s the point? It won’t make a difference.

And you know what? We’re 22 months separated now. She’s never asked a question about our oldest. Nothing. Not once.

It’s just mind blowing to me still.

But you know what? Today was a really good day. The kids are each having a great night. And my phone is lit up with extended family sharing Halloween photos. My parents are in their 80s and used to decorate a lot. My brother and his wife went and decorated their house inside and out…. They went all out. It’s wonderful.

It’s a good day.