[artie]

I've noticed there seems to be a lot of rather desperate friendship mania on the internet.

I'm quite cynical about friends, once they think they own you they always start to take you for granted or abuse you. Huge things like facebook with people displaying their "friends" for all the world to see and compare with others, like American high school, how Peter Pan, insecure and narcissistic.

Perhaps people have gone nutty about cyber-friends because their real ones are so hideous or non-existent.

If friendship shouldn't be abandoned in favor of a more mature sense of membership in something greater like humanity, at the very least some genius needs to write an "Art of Friendship" as most people seem to have them confused with enemies.

(Part of my problem is probably that I get on too well with my (very nice) family).

Comments? I know someone is going to say I need therapy, probably true maybe you do too!

[AAAAA]

23 years ago my husband and I were stationed in Japan. We were so far away from friends and family! When we lived off base we couldn't even call back home. The internet would have been a lovely communication tool back then. I think it makes it easier to communicate now.

My daughter lives about 3 hours away, when I cannot get ahold of her on her cell, I know I can IM her or send her a message on facebook and get an immediate reply. In my opinion, it is what you make of it.

[Capp]

Hi Artie,
Some people do use the Internet for the basis of their friendship circle for many reasons...
Perhaps loneliness is at the top of that list.

IRL, I am fortunate in having close friends; some I've known for years, others for a shorter time.
Internet-wise, it takes me longer to trust people enough that I consider them friends. It's most likely true that they do the same thing.

Therapy? Only you can make that decision.
Jmo, but not everyone needs it, or like you, wants it. I do believe, though, that it is beneficial when depression, among other things, are making life difficult.

Cap

[tablarosa]

Originally Posted by artie

I've noticed there seems to be a lot of rather desperate friendship mania on the internet.

I'm quite cynical about friends, once they think they own you they always start to take you for granted or abuse you. Huge things like facebook with people displaying their "friends" for all the world to see and compare with others, like American high school, how Peter Pan, insecure and narcissistic.

Perhaps people have gone nutty about cyber-friends because their real ones are so hideous or non-existent.

If friendship shouldn't be abandoned in favor of a more mature sense of membership in something greater like humanity, at the very least some genius needs to write an "Art of Friendship" as most people seem to have them confused with enemies.

(Part of my problem is probably that I get on too well with my (very nice) family).

Comments? I know someone is going to say I need therapy, probably true maybe you do too!

The act of friendship to me is something that takes a long time...something that isn't necessarily conducive to the current instant environment of the Internet.

I am musing on this concept not from your own situation but from my own occurrences. If anything I am appreciative of your raising the question.

I do not make friends easily. In fact, making friends face to face seems to totally elude me.

However I have forged various relationships on the Internet...but for the most part I find them hallow...shallow..not truly indicative of the complexity that makes up my life.

My problem is likely in expecting such to happen.

I joined this community not to find friendship but insight....maybe if I had approached my Internet relationships in the same way I might feel differently.

No disrespect to this community.t I am not looking for "friends" here but more so a way to navigate the mental illness hand which I was dealt.

As always YMMV

[nowheretorun]

friendship matters cause friends dont harm friends

[Junerain]

These questions want and need to be asked- thank you!! Facebook seems to have taken over!! I guess where there is a market for something...that something takes over......big time...!

I do belong, but I find myself not being authentic to the real 'me..' in facebook....and a lack of authenticity, that eats away at your core being...

You are the probably not the first to raise such questions about facebook, some celebrity will soon question it too, and not as intelligently as you did!!!

[Umm_kelly]

I'd like to say that the friend I've known the longest and who has stuck by me and talked me through everything since I was 13 years old is someone I met on the internet. We used to instant message every single day, almost all day. I've talked to him on the phone several times, and he's talked to my mom and younger brothers. If he hadn't been a constant in my life I don't know what I would have done with myself. I'm not saying all internet relationships are good. I only have the one. But they aren't all bad.

As for places like facebook (I have myspace) I don't use it to make friends. I use it to keep track of the ones I have. When my little brother changes his mood to "sad" and I haven't talked to him all day I make sure to ask him what's up. There isn't one friend I have on there that I didn't already know from real life.

[AAAAA]

Originally Posted by Umm_kelly

I'd like to say that the friend I've known the longest and who has stuck by me and talked me through everything since I was 13 years old is someone I met on the internet. We used to instant message every single day, almost all day. I've talked to him on the phone several times, and he's talked to my mom and younger brothers. If he hadn't been a constant in my life I don't know what I would have done with myself. I'm not saying all internet relationships are good. I only have the one. But they aren't all bad.

As for places like facebook (I have myspace) I don't use it to make friends. I use it to keep track of the ones I have. When my little brother changes his mood to "sad" and I haven't talked to him all day I make sure to ask him what's up. There isn't one friend I have on there that I didn't already know from real life.

This is the way we use facebook as well. I don't have a single friend on there that I don't know from rl. It's an excellent way to keep in touch with friends and relatives that live so far away. I prefer facebook to myspace because if I don't friend them, they cannot see my full page. I do not friend people I do not know.

[Umm_kelly]

Originally Posted by AAAAA

I prefer facebook to myspace because if I don't friend them, they cannot see my full page.

It's the same on myspace. At least you can change your settings so it's that way.

[ihateit]

Originally Posted by artie

I've noticed there seems to be a lot of rather desperate friendship mania on the internet.

I'm quite cynical about friends, once they think they own you they always start to take you for granted or abuse you. I am sorry you have such a
pessimistic opinion about friends...wow, ouch! Huge things like facebook with people displaying their "friends" for all the world to see and compare with others, like American high school, how Peter Pan, insecure and narcissistic. I am niether insecure (about my friends), nor am I narcissistic. I either personally know, am family with, went to high school with, or was in the military with, every one of the people I have listed as friends. And my best friend, who lives in CA, and I in the United Kingdom...hrrm...seems to me you didn't really think this out. It makes it much easier to be able to stay in contact with all my friends.

Perhaps people have gone nutty about cyber-friends because their real ones are so hideous or non-existent. There are some out there who can't leave the house, either disabled physcially or mentally...either way, it's a good way to communicate with people if you can't "get out".

If friendship shouldn't be abandoned in favor of a more mature sense of membership in something greater like humanity, at the very least some genius needs to write an "Art of Friendship" as most people seem to have them confused with enemies. LOL, really, there is no reason to be so cynical, sounds to me like you have been hurt, either from Internet, or IRL friends, maybe therapy would help that, I'm not being mean, but something's up.

(Part of my problem is probably that I get on too well with my (very nice) family).

Comments? I know someone is going to say I need therapy, probably true maybe you do too!

I'm in therapy, but because I have a panic/anxiety disorder, not because I have a cinical view of all people and friends except my family...hrrrm...

[artie]

Thanks for your suggestions, you almost seem like friends. I am actually at the tail end of a very mild depression (which I'm being treated for) which may have warped my perceptions a little, but that doesn't necessarily mean I'm wrong, psychologists often point out "normal" people see things through rose tinted glasses, they are slightly high and accordingly slightly unrealistic.

I find the problem with friendship in the real world is it is based on having things in common, being equal, "we seek ourselves in our friends" as my anthropology lecturer said.

Once there are differences, in ability, finances, etc envy and attacks seem to start.

I wonder if things like facebook are so popular because people seem the same, differences are not visible, we may be projecting ourselves onto them.

One difference which is visible on facebook is how many "friends" you have which may be partly why I hate it. There's hardly any other intereaction on the net I don't like.

[AAAAA]

I would have to disagree with you and your professor. Perhaps I'm the exception that makes the rule, but I find it difficult to be friends with people like myself. I'm very strong willed whereas most of my lifelong (20 years or more) friends have been very mild tempered people. My husband and I are as different as night and day. I think we seek people with those qualities that we wish we had, people that balance us.

[Capp]

Artie,
It's a good post and I thank you for doing it. It's made me think about these things...

My rl friends are a combination...some share the same outlooks, etc. and others are completely different. It certainly makes life interesting and enjoyable.
I will say that the ones I am closest to are the ones who have been through much of what I have been--childhood trauma, the war-time experiences, and seeking a different spiritual path.
We are hellions and daredevils...
OTOH, I receive many good things from those who don't share my history. Their friendship opens pathways for me that I would not otherwise seek with enthusiasm. They are solid and beautiful people and we accept our different ways.

In no way do I imply that it's always grand either way
I've had arguments and been royally POd by each, and I'm sure they would say the same about me.
But it doesn't destroy our friendship; it modifies it and usually for the better obviously.

Facebook and such places hold no attraction for me. The daughter of one of my friends was intent on running up the numbers so her friend count was impressive...
If used as communication between family and true friends, I believe it serves a wonderful purpose.

Please keep posting, Artie. I've enjoyed this thread.

Peace
Cap

[artie]

Originally Posted by Capp

Artie,

In no way do I imply that it's always grand either way
I've had arguments and been royally POd by each, and I'm sure they would say the same about me.
But it doesn't destroy our friendship; it modifies it and usually for the better obviously.

Peace
Cap

I like this point, "there is no friendship without forgiveness" I don't recall who said this but it should probably be in a top ten laws of friendship, or my one at least.

[Capp]

Originally Posted by artie

I like this point, "there is no friendship without forgiveness" I don't recall who said this but it should probably be in a top ten laws of friendship, or my one at least.

A good way of putting it, Artie.
I'm not big on the word forgiveness, more along the lines of all of us are human, make mistakes, make up, and go raise hell again.
For my more proper friends, it's High Tea and ease back into the friendship.
Both accomplish the same thing and both are equal joyful.

Cap

[Michah]

I don't have facebook because I don't want people to find me!!!

I don't like most people very much........and i am very content now that I have made peace with my misanthropy

[Mouse_]

Originally Posted by Junerain

These questions want and need to be asked- thank you!! Facebook seems to have taken over!! I guess where there is a market for something...that something takes over......big time...!

I do belong, but I find myself not being authentic to the real 'me..' in facebook....and a lack of authenticity, that eats away at your core being...

You are the probably not the first to raise such questions about facebook, some celebrity will soon question it too, and not as intelligently as you did!!!

Yes thats exactly how I feel/felt about facebook, accept I couldnt quite finger it, but yes it certainly does eat away at ones authentic self....

[ihateit]

Originally Posted by Mouse_

Yes thats exactly how I feel/felt about facebook, accept I couldnt quite finger it, but yes it certainly does eat away at ones authentic self....

I find it ... normal ... to be myself on facebook, if I wasn't me, people would know, because they all know me IRL. I guess if they were "Internet" freinds then you could fake it and be someone else, but why?

[Mouse_]

Originally Posted by ihateit

I find it ... normal ... to be myself on facebook, if I wasn't me, people would know, because they all know me IRL. I guess if they were "Internet" freinds then you could fake it and be someone else, but why?

Its more a feeling than an act...its not my cup of tea to post onliners proclaming to the world that I've just farted or made a cup of tea of whatever...there really isn't room for more "real" stuff, well in private there is, but facebook is really all about being "seen"...but not really being "seen"? emotionally that is...I'm pleased you are ok with it...but that doesn't change my experience of it...

[Junerain]

Lots of acquaintances from high school befriended me on facebook, and I am from the most competitive high school in my city...I would love to be open about my illness, that I just attended a support group last night, that I got a new therapist, that I love PC, in an ideal world I could be truly Junerain and all she is, but there is an element of competition I feel. I wish there was not, but I find myself even boasting on there, perhaps I should limit my friends to real life friends, that may not be a bad idea........*thinks it over*

[madisgram]

Originally Posted by artie

Thanks for your suggestions, you almost seem like friends. I am actually at the tail end of a very mild depression (which I'm being treated for) which may have warped my perceptions a little, but that doesn't necessarily mean I'm wrong, psychologists often point out "normal" people see things through rose tinted glasses, they are slightly high and accordingly slightly unrealistic. i'm curious which psychologists pointed this out?

I find the problem with friendship in the real world is it is based on having things in common, being equal, "we seek ourselves in our friends" as my anthropology lecturer said. one of the neatest things for me is that i have freinds from all walks of life. they enrich my life because they are often different from me and i can learn more looking thru someone else's perspective. i think it has broadened my "world".

Once there are differences, in ability, finances, etc envy and attacks seem to start. see above comment...and if one is a true friend to another i don't think these catalysts necessarily take place, otherwise they would not be a true friend in the purest sense.

I wonder if things like facebook are so popular because people seem the same, differences are not visible, we may be projecting ourselves onto them.

One difference which is visible on facebook is how many "friends" you have which may be partly why I hate it. There's hardly any other intereaction on the net I don't like.

thanks for bringing up the topic, artie. i read all the posts and can see that we all have a different spin on friends in general. i hadn't engaged in facebook or myspace cause i just didin't. recently my daughter in law asked me to join so i could see update photos on my granchildren so i will join to enjoy seeing them grow up.
i guess i have a different outlook on friends in general than you, but respecting others opinions often opens doors of communication that otherwise would not take place, so thanks again for this topic!

[ihateit]

Originally Posted by artie

Thanks for your suggestions, you almost seem like friends. I am actually at the tail end of a very mild depression (which I'm being treated for) which may have warped my perceptions a little, but that doesn't necessarily mean I'm wrong, psychologists often point out "normal" people see things through rose tinted glasses, they are slightly high and accordingly slightly unrealistic. I too would like to know who said this.

I find the problem with friendship in the real world is it is based on having things in common, being equal, "we seek ourselves in our friends" as my anthropology lecturer said. I don't seek myself in my friends, there is already one too many of me. I too seek out people who are from different walks of life, so I don't think this idiom is really reflective of everyone.

Once there are differences, in ability, finances, etc envy and attacks seem to start. Again, I would have to agree with Mad. One of my best friends was my ex G/F's husband, the complete oposite of me, he was great with cars, I was great with computers, he liked "man" (action) movies, I like scary and romcoms. At different times in our relationship, one of us would be having finacial difficulties, I lent them money, and visa versa, and never once was there any kind of "envy attack".

I wonder if things like facebook are so popular because people seem the same, differences are not visible, we may be projecting ourselves onto them. For me, Facebook is popular because again, I know every single person in my friends list, IRL, at one time or another. I keep in touch with some of my family, and my long time, almost sister, through Facebook. Saying that, I can see your point, and this could very well be a factor in it's popularity.

One difference which is visible on facebook is how many "friends" you have which may be partly why I hate it. There's hardly any other intereaction on the net I don't like. I know people with as few as 10 friends, and some with 100s of friends, I do question the 100s of friends...really, how many people can one know? But, eh...I am not one to judge them. If they want to have 100s of friends, maybe they really do, prolly not tho eh hehe?

Each one of us is different. Opinions are like... well you've heard it heh. I am not saying yours is wrong, but it seems to be a very big generalization to say what you said. But, it has made for a good read!

[artie]

Thanks for your suggestions, you almost seem like friends. I am actually at the tail end of a very mild depression (which I'm being treated for) which may have warped my perceptions a little, but that doesn't necessarily mean I'm wrong, psychologists often point out "normal" people see things through rose tinted glasses, they are slightly high and accordingly slightly unrealistic. i'm curious which psychologists pointed this out?

I've seen this on TV twice in discussions of bipolar but don't recall names sorry, experiments have found people think they are smarter, less likely to get cancer etc than other people therefore it was inferred normal people are slightly manic. I think it explains a lot about us, able to fight impossible odds for instance when everything suggests there is no hope (and rightly so), it may also explain why we hear we are destroying the planet and think "isn't that terrible" then forget it and go on doing all the things that are destroying it.

I think the book "Kluge. The Haphazard Construction of the Human Mind" by G. Marcus talks about this but can't guarantee it. It's along those lines anyway, how irrational we are, or can be.

HMMM, maybe friendship isn't always about seeking yourself in others, I hope so, I think it is much to often, at least in western industrialized societies, I don't know that it has to be that way.

I appreciate your comments, got back with an old friend as a result, feels pretty good actually.

[Jessalynn]

I know how you feel. It seems like this society is getting more withdrawn. I just lost a friendship because my friend wouldnt call me. Just email back and forth. If I called her, she didnt answer so I figured she didnt want anything to do with me. Im sick over this.

[madisgram]

hi back at you artie, you mentioned about ppl being aware of things like global warming, etc and acknowledging it and then not dong anything about it. i feel it is extreme apathy on the part of many ppl..like they figure i'm not gonna worry about that cause someone else will fix it...NOT. i see this in the way we allow our government to "run us" rather than holding them accountable for their actions...or being a good citizen and voting them out of office. i feel this is apathy again...there's a lot of apathy everywhere for everything unless it's gonna pay out to the person. the other aspect of the apathy comes from, if it doesn't apply to me, i don't care. it's kind of frightening actually. if ppl took on a small part of the responsibility for this world we live in, i think it would result in a better place, imho. this does touch on some of your points in your original post.
i'm glad you reconnected with an old friend. real friends are so important to us. no man is an island...i wish you good wishes on this reunion with your friend.
and thank you again for this thread. i feel we all benefitted from this discussion! i know i did. oh and thank you for the psychologist reference. i'm going to check it out.