[Melody_Bells]

Just wondering, how is it like for you to have romantic feelings for T? Does it make you happy, sad, ashamed... etc?

I enjoy liking my T. It is a nice feeling, and I smile every time I think of T.

[bunnylove45]

I no longer have 'those' feelings for my therapist. The transference has lessened. But, when I did, it felt exhilarating to say the least!

My feelings stopped, because they weren't being reciprocated (rightly so), so eventually they hunger stopped.

I still like him and very much attracted to him, but the longing has ceased.

[growlycat]

Shame and Lust with a tiny bit of Happy.

I wouldn't trust or respect him if he acted on anything. But it would be nice to know if he felt any warmth or affection for me, maybe even feeling a bit flattered.

Mine is a mix of sort of resigned sadness and with happiness and some sort of weird contentment. T had indicated he has strong feelings for me as well but we are both committed to our marriages and we are clear that nothing sexual is ever happening. So I'm happy that he cares for me also and I would never cheat on my husband or do anything to harm T, his career or his family but it's sad also to think about what I NEVER get by remaining in my relationship with my husband.

[bunnylove45]

Originally Posted by My kids are cool

Mine is a mix of sort of resigned sadness and with happiness and some sort of weird contentment. T had indicated he has strong feelings for me as well but we are both committed to our marriages and we are clear that nothing sexual is ever happening. So I'm happy that he cares for me also and I would never cheat on my husband or do anything to harm T, his career or his family but it's sad also to think about what I NEVER get by remaining in my relationship with my husband.

Wow, just wow. Your therapist actually said to you he had feelings for you? I thought Code of Ethics prevailed and therapists were not allowed to share such feelings.

Originally Posted by bunnylove45

Wow, just wow. Your therapist actually said to you he had feelings for you? I thought Code of Ethics prevailed and therapists were not allowed to share such feelings.

Ts can say whatever they want to (whether those are good boundaries or not, whole other issue...I think each case is different; sometimes clients just know, and Ts are no good at hiding their feelings anyway)...but they can't sexually act on their feelings with a client, past or present, ever..."once a client, always a client."
That's where the APA slams down their gravel, at least if the T is a psychologist and you are in the USA. I know LCSWs have similar rules created by their "governing body."

[SkinnySoul]

Right now I hate it. I feel needy. The real me never feels needy, what the hell's wrong with me?!
Other than that, there are times I feel good about it, and times it doesn't really affect my mood.

Originally Posted by bunnylove45

Wow, just wow. Your therapist actually said to you he had feelings for you? I thought Code of Ethics prevailed and therapists were not allowed to share such feelings.

They are not allowed to act out sexually or have dual relationships with clients. They are allowed to disclose their feelings to the extent they think believe it it be therapeutically helpful. For a variety of reasons, my T thought it would be helpful for me to know and it was. It was healing and he did it in a way that did not lead me on or lead me to believe that a romantic relationship was possible.

Originally Posted by lost_key

Ts can say whatever they want to (whether those are good boundaries or not, whole other issue...I think each case is different; sometimes clients just know, and Ts are no good at hiding their feelings anyway)...but they can't sexually act on their feelings with a client, past or present, ever..."once a client, always a client."
That's where the APA slams down their gravel, at least if the T is a psychologist and you are in the USA. I know LCSWs have similar rules created by their "governing body."

In our state the rule is (and the standard rule issued by the APA, I believe) that they may not have a romantic relationship for two years following the end of the therapeutic relationship. After that, the relationship is permitted, but if anything goes wrong, the presumptive is that the therapist has behaved improperly. It is mainly the malpractice insurance people who push the once a client, always a client rule.

The following applies to all states:

Sexual involvements with former clients: A delicate balance of core values

The APA pushes the once a client, always a client rule. (I don't know about insurance companies.)
Here is a passage of note:

10.08 SEXUAL INTIMACIES WITH FORMER THERAPY CLIENTS/PATIENTS
(a) Psychologists do not engage in sexual intimacies with former clients/patients for at least two years after cessation or termination of therapy.
(b) Psychologists do not engage in sexual intimacies with former clients/patients even after a two-year interval except in the most unusual circumstances. Psychologists who engage in such activity after the two years following cessation or termination of therapy and of having no sexual contact with the former client/patient bear the burden of demonstrating that there has been no exploitation, in light of all relevant factors, including (1) the amount of time that has passed since therapy terminated; (2) the nature, duration, and intensity of the therapy; (3) the circumstances of termination; (4) the client's/ patient's personal history; (5) the client's/patient's current mental status; (6) the likelihood of adverse impact on the client/patient; and (7) any statements or actions made by the therapist during the course of therapy suggesting or inviting the possibility of a post-termination sexual or romantic relationship with the client/patient. (See also Standard 3.05, Multiple Relationships.)

So in your case if you and your T both have feelings for each other during therapy, becoming involved 2 years later even post termination should be an issue for your T and is very problematic given the above criteria, assuming he is ethical (which I am). And I am not just picking on you, btw...I have been through all of this myself, so I know all the little miserable nuances and feel some of this information should be wider known.

A good example (provided by a T, actually) where this might not be an issue is...let's say a client comes to a T for maybe 1-2 sessions on how to solve a problem and then they part after those sessions; straightforward therapy has occurred. Two and a half years later they run into each other at a party, get to talking, and the T asks the ex-client out on a date. So there "relationship" essentially starts on neutral ground because there was no emotional involvement in the first place.

[bunnylove45]

[QUOTE=My kids are cool;3211114]They are not allowed to act out sexually or have dual relationships with clients. They are allowed to disclose their feelings to the extent they think believe it it be therapeutically helpful. For a variety of reasons, my T thought it would be helpful for me to know and it was. It was healing and he did it in a way that did not lead me on or lead me to believe that a romantic relationship was possible.

Amazing... it almost seems counter productive for a therapist to tell a client who happens to have feelings for the therapist that "Hey, I like you too".

I think if my therapist would disclose that information to me, it would send me higher...feed my transference.

Do you and your therapist have a sort of dance...when in each others' company? Knowing that you both have feelings for each other?

[feralkittymom]

So in your case if you and your T both have feelings for each other during therapy, becoming involved 2 years later even post termination should be an issue for your T and is very problematic given the above criteria, assuming he is ethical (which I am). And I am not just picking on you, btw...I have been through all of this myself, so I know all the little miserable nuances and feel some of this information should be wider known.

I think MKAC has made her position quite clear on this issue. Not sure why you are engaging in such speculation.
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Amazing... it almost seems counter productive for a therapist to tell a client who happens to have feelings for the therapist that "Hey, I like you too".

I think if my therapist would disclose that information to me, it would send me higher...feed my transference.

And if your T is attuned to you, it would probably not be appropriate for him to share such feelings with you. But that isn't necessarily true for all clients, nor all situations.

[quote=bunnylove45;3211256]

Originally Posted by My kids are cool

They are not allowed to act out sexually or have dual relationships with clients. They are allowed to disclose their feelings to the extent they think believe it it be therapeutically helpful. For a variety of reasons, my T thought it would be helpful for me to know and it was. It was healing and he did it in a way that did not lead me on or lead me to believe that a romantic relationship was possible.

Amazing... it almost seems counter productive for a therapist to tell a client who happens to have feelings for the therapist that "Hey, I like you too".

I think if my therapist would disclose that information to me, it would send me higher...feed my transference.

Do you and your therapist have a sort of dance...when in each others' company? Knowing that you both have feelings for each other?

No. No dance. I was always very, very clear when trying to get a grip on how I feel about him that I was NOT offering him anything. I needed to talk about the feelings because it was causing me pain and anguish, but I absolutely was not going to act on those feelings, and I was only telling him because I had faith he would not to DO anything with the information. I have no intention on cheating on my husband under any circumstances. Him finally telling me he had feelings for me was a very long process that involved a lot of discussion about my feelings that I am disgusting and thinking he was secretly horrified to know I had feelings for him. We also discussed me thinking or it seeming like he had feelings for me, but him not saying so, and then me constantly second guessing my perceptions and not trusting myself, which is a big issue for me anyway. So it was likely a combination of him wanting me to know he doesn't think I'm horrifying and not wanting to lie to me and feed into my mistrust of my perceptions.

We are both clear that nothing is happening between us even down the road because both of us are committed to our marriages. We have discussed not allowing this side issue to derail therapy. If anything, I think I have made huge strides since the disclosure of his feelings. He trusted me enough to tell me these things. He trusts me (I realize how hugely risky it is for a therapist to disclose this kind of information) and I have more faith in him as a result, and more trust that I really can tell him anything.

I do realize our situation may be quite the aberration. I have an almost unhealthy aversion to bumping other people's boundaries and he said he had no worries that I would get obsessed or suddenly start trying to force my way into his private life.

[bunnylove45]

[QUOTE=My kids are cool;3211337]

Originally Posted by bunnylove45

No. No dance. I was always very, very clear when trying to get a grip on how I feel about him that I was NOT offering him anything. I needed to talk about the feelings because it was causing me pain and anguish, but I absolutely was not going to act on those feelings, and I was only telling him because I had faith he would not to DO anything with the information. I have no intention on cheating on my husband under any circumstances. Him finally telling me he had feelings for me was a very long process that involved a lot of discussion about my feelings that I am disgusting and thinking he was secretly horrified to know I had feelings for him. We also discussed me thinking or it seeming like he had feelings for me, but him not saying so, and then me constantly second guessing my perceptions and not trusting myself, which is a big issue for me anyway. So it was likely a combination of him wanting me to know he doesn't think I'm horrifying and not wanting to lie to me and feed into my mistrust of my perceptions.

We are both clear that nothing is happening between us even down the road because both of us are committed to our marriages. We have discussed not allowing this side issue to derail therapy. If anything, I think I have made huge strides since the disclosure of his feelings. He trusted me enough to tell me these things. He trusts me (I realize how hugely risky it is for a therapist to disclose this kind of information) and I have more faith in him as a result, and more trust that I really can tell him anything.

I do realize our situation may be quite the aberration. I have an almost unhealthy aversion to bumping other people's boundaries and he said he had no worries that I would get obsessed or suddenly start trying to force my way into his private life.

Thank you for sharing such personal feelings. It seems you have a special bond with your therapist. And, that is a wonderful feeling.

[QUOTE=feralkittymom;3211295]So in your case if you and your T both have feelings for each other during therapy, becoming involved 2 years later even post termination should be an issue for your T and is very problematic given the above criteria, assuming he is ethical (which I am). And I am not just picking on you, btw...I have been through all of this myself, so I know all the little miserable nuances and feel some of this information should be wider known.

I think MKAC has made her position quite clear on this issue. Not sure why you are engaging in such speculation.
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It's not "speculation"....there are rules, I provided an APA source link and quotes, and I was interpreting MKAC's case based on the knowledge given (as she had mentioned her husband being a source keeping them apart...I was merely pointing out there are other complicated issues) and not being critical...as I said, I have been there myself. I was trying to be empathetic and also provide information. That's it, period. I am not doubting MKAC's therapy or her bond with her therapist.

[JeffPowers]

A little background to a breakthrough in my private therapy. I addition to private therapy, I also take an anger management class.

There was a new member in my anger management class. She talked about her violent rages. Her live-in boyfriend is a counselor of some kind, and took her aside after an incident to talk with her about her feelings. She said he tends to do that regularly, and she finds it annoying or even anger-provoking. I chimed in and said, “He’s talking to you about your feelings because he cares a lot about you.” The phrase sounded so familiar. I was very sincere about it. By the time I got home it sunk in that listening attentively, and responding appropriately and helpfully, is a true indication of one person caring for another.

As the kids today say, “OMG!” As I like to say, “Holy s**t!” That idea finally hit home. My T prods me to talk about my feelings, sympathizes (pretty much) with my pain, and gives me professional, thoughtful, specific help in dealing with my issues. The sessions are often uncomfortable and even painful. That’s what my T does, and has done so for about seven years. All of my stomach-grinding angst, sadness, yearning to know if she really cares about me had just been answered...by me! The concept clicked in my mind. And the answer came from me. She’s not spending all these many hours on me, roughly 300 hours over the last seven years or so, and listening to and acknowledging my many phone messages that I leave almost weekly between sessions, just to get her small pay. The session fees at the clinic where I see her have gone from $15 to $20 to now $25. And as an intern, at first she didn’t get any of it. It all went to the clinic. A year or so later she got some of the money, but I have no idea how much. Even if she were to get all of it, which she certainly does not, spending 50 minutes a week, and now it’s often twice a week, listening and doing her work in sessions with me, is not something I would do at that fee. Does she do it soley for the credits towards her 3,000 hours of internship required to receive her license? When I suggested that idea to her, she was perhaps offended or irritated, but was genuinely scornful of the thought.

So at long last I believe what she has been trying to get through to me: the very fact that she shows up as per our appointments, has often intense sessions with me, means she cares. She has been trying for years to get me to understand that what she does for me in our discussions is far more intimate, compassionate, and productive than any possible relationship we could have outside of the session room. The major difference is, and this is a big one for me, she does not allow me to get to know her. I already do know a lot more about her than she wishes. I have “crossed boundaries” several times, the most invasive being my looking her up on Facebook.

I just read the specific rules and laws pertaining to therapist/patient interpersonal relations, and I now see where she’s coming from. Some very specific, damaging laws exist on this matter until two years after therapy has terminated. But the two year waiting period specifically refers to sexual relationships. I could not locate anything about a “waiting period” for platonic relationships after therapy termination. I brought this up in my session yesterday (8/7/13), and she told me about the ethical issue of being post-therapy friends. That also tells me that she might like to be my friend one day, if not for the APA ethics issues. At least I hope so. The APA is vague on the subject of post-therapy friendships. They discourage it, but seem to not forbid it. Therapists are not permitted to suggest or discuss having a post-therapy relationship with a client during the time they are the client's therapist. It's not just her personal refusal to discuss it; it is one of the restrictions placed on therapists. Yay!

[Hopelesspoppy]

Originally Posted by bunnylove45

Wow, just wow. Your therapist actually said to you he had feelings for you? I thought Code of Ethics prevailed and therapists were not allowed to share such feelings.

Neither the Code of Ethics nor basic common sense prevails over the out-sized ego of a narcissistic t.

Originally Posted by Hopelesspoppy

Neither the Code of Ethics nor basic common sense prevails over the out-sized ego of a narcissistic t.

I don't believe that is actually the situation with my T, HP. The situation was complicated and I think he had valid reasons to tell me this when he did. We are both very clear on the boundaries and that nothing is happening between us.

[Hopelesspoppy]

Originally Posted by My kids are cool

They are not allowed to act out sexually or have dual relationships with clients. They are allowed to disclose their feelings to the extent they think believe it it be therapeutically helpful. For a variety of reasons, my T thought it would be helpful for me to know and it was. It was healing and he did it in a way that did not lead me on or lead me to believe that a romantic relationship was possible.



In our state the rule is (and the standard rule issued by the APA, I believe) that they may not have a romantic relationship for two years following the end of the therapeutic relationship. After that, the relationship is permitted, but if anything goes wrong, the presumptive is that the therapist has behaved improperly. It is mainly the malpractice insurance people who push the once a client, always a client rule.

Yeah, that's psych 101. Knowing the rules/laws/regulations and risks is an entirely different animal than abiding by them. I was actually courted, blatantly, for many years.

My situation is not the same as yours, HP. I am sorry for what happened to you.

[MASIMO]

What about if a Psychologist retires from the profession, assuming his license is allowed to expire? How can there be any expectations regarding his relationships with former clients at that point, aside from their own good sense that is could be harmful?
Has anyone had a relationship under those circumstances. Or had a therapist say,
"when I retire.......may be could see each other"

[Hopelesspoppy]

Originally Posted by My kids are cool

I don't believe that is actually the situation with my T, HP. The situation was complicated and I think he had valid reasons to tell me this when he did. We are both very clear on the boundaries and that nothing is happening between us.

I am very glad for you!