[coltranefanatic]

Well well well.....

I went in there today feeling Funky Fresh from Hollis Queens. I really did. I was upbeat, after a week spent having had some really good news on the professional front (actually realllllly good news), I was no longer feeling all lovesick and secretive, I was absolutely high on life, and I couldn't wait to walk in the door and have him see me HAPPY, and looking.....much better than our last visit.

Something was off.

I sat down, he cracked his classic smile and I was like "hi! I have some really good news, and amazing things to tell you!" And it was like that smile....went away. I told him of my good news, and he didn't seem.......well....happy for me? Then I also told him, "I'm also feeling much better bout things, I got some clarity with a little help from my friends, I feel much better." That also made him....look well....."skeptical." He said, "care to elaborate on that?" And I said, "nope, not necessary." That didn't make him.....look so happy at me. There were no smirks. There was no affable vibe we usually have.

Unlike our last two sessions which ran like 15 minutes over, he reached for the book, ON THE DOT this time, and said "so...next week?"

When a session is over with me, he never gets up to say goodbye, ever....(which frankly, I kind of hate, it makes me feel like we had a fast ****, and I'm supposed to get my clothes and ****ing go), but this time, I got out, shut the door, went to the elevator, and heard his door open, like he might have to pass me in the hall, go to the bathroom, something and he purposely DID NOT COME OUT. Like he STAYED IN THERE purposely.

I was like WTF????????

I don't get it! I was so HAPPY! I had good news! I've lost 35 lbs! I got a new record deal and a publishing deal! I had good news! I had joy to share! WTF???

Anyway, I guess we'll have to tune in next Thursday....

(WTF?????)

[nicoleflynn]

I don't have a clue (only he knows why he acted that way). My guess? Maybe he feels "less" because you are figuring some things out withOUT him? He should have been full of congratulations ...jealousy?

[tametc]

Originally Posted by coltranefanatic

Well well well.....

I was like WTF????????

I don't get it! I was so HAPPY! I had good news! I've lost 35 lbs! I got a new record deal and a publishing deal! I had good news! I had joy to share! WTF???

Anyway, I guess we'll have to tune in next Thursday....

(WTF?????)

WTF indeed. I sort of thought along the same lines as Nicole. But, like you said, see what happens next week. Are you going to ask him about his reaction?

BTW, that is all exciting news! CONGRATULATIONS! I'm proud of you and feel good on your behalf. Thanks for sharing this.

[coltranefanatic]

It goes beyond even all the above. It's like he couldn't wait to get rid of me. I was really surprised, and kinda pissed frankly. I mean he congratulated me, but it was so flat. He just...was like...weird today, and the whole thing with the elevator was like, "oh come ON dude." It's like he's sending me a very clear message, that my confession of my transference issues IS making him uncomfortable. Either he hates me or is disgusted by me or something else, I just don't know. I guess he liked me better when I was vulnerable and making mooney eyes at him, but then if that was true, why is he being so ****ing...purposely....really really like...distant? I dunno. Weird.

[AllyIsHopeful]

I agree, I think his ego may have been hurting too bad to feel happiness for you. Unfortunately there are Ts like that out there. Mine has the tendency to react that way at times when I figure something out on my own...almost like she's offended.
Would it help to ask him about that vibe next session? For example "Last session I had some terrific news and progress that I was really excited to share with you; but it bothered me when you appeared unimpressed and less than enthusiastic." (something along those lines)

[Mactastic]

I have been following your first thread on transference (the long one, lol) without ever jumping in. I was amazed when you said in another thread your crush had faded. So Fast? Ha! I'm crushing harder on mine 6 months later...but anyway...

It does sound to me he's a little bummed the "game's over." I thought he had handled your feelings well, but now that you've moved on, your sessions won't have the fire they once had. Maybe you served as the lightest part of his day. In some respects, I can't blame him...who wouldn't want to be the object of so much desire and flirtation? Your T is only human.

I'd give it some more time before you make up your mind. Maybe he'd had a ****** day before you got there and was finding it hard to care.

[unaluna]

Usually transference is in service of something. Reading this account of today's session, i have to try to remember what you went to therapy for. T is the keeper of that - your inside life, your past. It's your choice to explore it or not. Your outside life, your business successes - dont necessarily erase them or their effect on you. I dont think he's jealous - i think he's just waiting to see if you're coming back to work on things. Maybe you resolved them outside of therapy and just didnt tell him (or us) - in which case, hey great! But it seems fast.

[nicoleflynn]

I read somewhere that when people react negatively towards you, more than likely it is jealousy; something is going on with him.

In other words he likes(d) the status quo, and you have changed it. Congratulations on your successes!!!

He should have celebrated you!! I think he feels uncomfortable AND jealous.

[coltranefanatic]

I don't know. To be honest, it took a lot of wind out of my sails. Why should it matter if I made him feel "unneeded" anyway??? He's getting PAID. I would have thought a psychotherapist would be PROUD if I figured something out on my own, I mean wouldn't that suggest that HIS methods are WORKING? He himself once described his role as "I can't do the work for you, but I am here to help you, do the work." WELL...isn't that what I DID?

Behind the scenes, here's what I did do, to get that help.

I had/have a terrible mother and father growing up, and one of the awesome benefits of my marriage to my fantastic husband is having met HIS friends, most of whom are SUPER smart, as my hubby works in high tech, and one of his closest friends is a coder. REDUNKULOUSLY brilliant, and one of the nicest human beings I've ever met. I'll refer to him as Mr. Coder. Mr. Coder, is awesome. Mr. Coder is hilarious, brilliant, and reminds me of Chevy Chase for some reason, and he cracks me up and always has something really amazing to say and, we've had him and his EVEN YET MORE FABULOUS WIFE, who I will refer to as Earth Mother (more on why in a second), over for dinner many times, we've had dinner at their farm, we've had ourselves some wonderful times together and Earth Mother, well she might be the only woman I wish upon a star, had been born MY MOM. She's got two daughters in their early 20's and just looking at how they both turned out, I mean.....it's amazing. Earth Mother, is brilliant, insightful, and used to work for Andy Warhol. YES, you heard me, USED TO WORK FOR ANDY WARHOL. Both of us are NYC girls, and when we first met, we literally sectioned off, and abandoned Coder and my hubby, because oh my GOD, she was just so fabulous, and had all these amazing stories, and I was blown away, because regretfully while I too have met members of Warhol's former camps, being two generations behind Earth Mother, well, I didn't get to meet that real historic inner corp. Anyway, we hit it off, and we immediately became sensational friends. Though I'm 20 years younger than her, I think she puts forth an interesting blend of both friend and a slight maternal leaning.

So with that, at the end of the week, when I was crying in the middle of the nights, masturbating excessively and furtively (sorry had to add that, sorry if it's TMI for some), obsessing over my T, trying to look him up, looking up his wife, this horrific obsession that was plaguing me and making me depressed- the source being, that I felt like everything I was doing was betraying a man who I adore and who loves me, the hubby came to me one day and said "hey, how bout we go visit coder and Earth Mother at the farm?" It was as if he was reading my mind.

Down to the farm we went, I fed chickens, helped pull the last of things out of the ground, got dirty, and had a blissful day. I love the outdoors, I love gardening and farming and getting the Earth under my fingers, and then Bena and I took our bounty and she said "so girlfriend, how bout we light one up, clean up some of this produce and make smoked pizzas with it?" Ummmm....YAISS!!!! So she sparks up a J, we are cleaning off these gorgeous root veggies, which I start sauteeing, and she passes me the J, says "okay missy, I hear you've been kinda down in the dumps lately, you wanna tell me wassup?" And with that? I started sobbing. She put her arms around me, and we went into her naturalist room (she's reallllly also into Native American culture), and smoked that J and I told her EVERYTHING.

And wouldn't you know it, Earth Mother with her patience and wisdom asked questions, I never asked myself. She said "first of all, I've been in psychotherapy for 20 years. I started after my father and mother died and left me to raise my brothers and sisters and the stress became huge and I started again to get off cocaine and hard drugs, I've been involved with therapy for years, and I occasionally still go, so I'm very aware of how this works." She said, "you're very keen to say that you feel all these transference issues are yours, that one day you woke up and found yourself deeply attracted to your T, you can't stop thinking bout him, etc...and this of course is made worse by the fact that he reminds you of the guy who you had your initial intercourse experience with, but I'd like to ask you a few questions. Firstly, have you been this obsessed with your T from the JUMP? You've been going for 6 months, have you always been....so crushed out over the T?" And then it hit me. The answer to that was NO. I said "well I thought he was gorgeous, almost too gorgeous when I first met him, but that more amused me than anything else when we met, I mean, I did find it hard to open up around someone so attractive, cause you never want to look....less than perfect around attractive people but...once we actually got rolling, I found him easy to talk to, and all that stuff. So then she cocked an eyebrow and said, "when did you find your transference issues starting to interfere with your life?" And I said, like maybe 2-3 months ago. Round August. She said "what happened in August/Sept...in your sessions, to prompt these feelings, were you talking bout your past, were you digging deeper?" And I said "no, not really, we've only ever dug REALLY deep a few times, I'm not so easy to get info out of, and ironically it was when I realized how hot for my therapist I was, that I started to SKIP SESSIONS." Then she smiled and said, "I am going to ask you...to try and relax your mind and think what was it around that time, that made you overwhelmingly decide, to skip sessions, or close off in them, and overall, made what was a lighthearted thing into this heavy thing." And I sat there, realllllly thinking, like trying to dig it all up, and I was like "I....don't know...I can't really......put my finger on it," and then she said "I'm trying to figure out not what YOU did, but what HE did." And I went "huh? He didn't do anything, he's never touched me, he won't even get up with me at the ends of sessions to say goodbye, or shake my hand, or anything (which btw..she thought was ridiculous and promoting a very negative energy). She said "does he flirt with you? Has he ever said anything suggestive to you?" And I said "well.....I've always thought he might be flirting with me a little, he likes to address me with these smoldering smirky smiles, and stuff, and sometimes it does get a wee flirtatious maybe?" And she stopped me COLD and said...

"Your therapist...inspired your transferences. He...is inducing these feelings, which, while they may connect to people in your past, and your own mind recognizes these signifiers as "men from my past," have you never asked yourself why? It's not enough to be physically attractive, that wouldn't inspire this level of anguish, it's the EMOTIONAL attraction, based on maneuvers men have made with you in the past, to get you on board with them. You yourself said, "sometimes he looks at me like the guy in a bar who wants to get my attention, but I think that's my mind playing tricks on me," you've been so focused on what your mind is doing, and how this is all in your mind, that it's your transference that is making you "think he's flirting with you," when in fact, HE MAY VERY WELL BE FLIRTING WITH YOU. He may not be aware he's doing it, but he's attempting to get you to be what HE wants you to be in those sessions. I'm willing to believe, he's attempting anything he can, to get you to open up and talk, but he's also trying to have his cake and eat it too, it's very possible, that you represent something to him, that he wants to be able to partake in, but knows that he can't do so, risking his marriage and his practice. It seems to me, it's a bit sadomasochistic, and I hate to say it, if he doesn't want you directly (which...as she put it, I can't see how any man wouldn't want you directly, cause you're a firecracker), but I think he's trying to hold on to the boundaries, all while attempting to to get what he wants out of you, which...it's best you not know what that is.

"He wants the boundaries of his business to be in place, and fwiw it's GOOD that those boundaries exist, but when they exist to the point where first of all, you spend time talking and then at the end he just sits there and waits for you to leave, that's HIM attempting to hold onto something. I'm suspicious of your therapist and would give it no more than 4 more sessions to see if things balance out. Flirting? Well that's one thing, it's harmless everyone flirts, it's really just a version of being friendly if you're doing it for fun, but these long looks he gives you, or the smirks, or the likes? That's not cool." And I said, "I never thought of it this way...that HE directly is inspiring the transference, I thought it was me and my mind playing tricks on me. I thought suddenly my brain was just racing away out of control, and it scared me." She said, "you made it clear to me, that you KNOW this isn't love, you KNOW this is just your mind playing hocus pocus on you, the fact that you're so aware of this, is AWESOME, and it's the sign of a very healthy minded person. And it's possible, that in fact, I'm wrong, I don't want to blame him for anything, but I'd be very aware of his actions the next meeting and if possible, walk in there assertive, walk in there....in control and poised, and looking like you're actually doing okay, and see how the rhythm goes. You say you value your therapy, and you wish to continue, let's see if HE is the one you should continue with."

I felt SO RELIEVED! It wasn't a blame game, "he's doing this, not me, " so much as "I can move forward, this is all an illusion, as I suspected it was." Went to bed that night, not thinking of my T at all, and felt great for a week, then my good news came in.

So yesterday with Earth Mother in my brain, I did just that. Walked in, felt GREAT, I felt no pangs in my heart. I could look at him in the eye! I spent some time explaining what the difference between an "artists deal and a publishing deal" was, cause he did ask, as he was confused, but yeah, the rest of the time? Felt....NOT LIKE HIM. There was no...spark in his eye, there was nothing, he looked...I dunno, just NOT like the T I knew. I considered that maybe he was having a bad day, I considered all the things, but the thing that was the cherry on the sundae, was that he PURPOSELY WAITED FOR ME TO LEAVE, BEFORE COMING OUT OF THE ROOM.

WTF??? Do I have cooties? Am I suddenly repulsive? I wanted to walk back in there and go, "dude, it's really okay, you can leave your room while I'm still here waiting to get in the ****ing elevator to go. I realize boundaries are important but if you're going to treat me like I'm an "issue." I should go. And permanently.

UGH!!!!!!!

[Lauliza]

Originally Posted by hankster

Usually transference is in service of something. Reading this account of today's session, i have to try to remember what you went to therapy for. T is the keeper of that - your inside life, your past. It's your choice to explore it or not. Your outside life, your business successes - dont necessarily erase them or their effect on you. I dont think he's jealous - i think he's just waiting to see if you're coming back to work on things. Maybe you resolved them outside of therapy and just didnt tell him (or us) - in which case, hey great! But it seems fast.

Congratulations on your success, that is awesome!

Regarding your T, I agree with Hankster. I don't think he's jealous, I think he is glad for you but wants to focus on the things that are happening in the confines of therapy. He may have been sitting back and trying to figure out your dramatic change in demeanor, especially since you didn't want to elaborate on the details. From the standpoint of a therapist, it may have seemed, like Hankster said, too fast and or too much. He is there for your issues that you bring into therapy, not necessarily what happens in the outside world. So he may have been trying to process it all, to figure it out.

[coltranefanatic]

To all those hankster, and amee.....

How does this explain his...almost..."recoiling" if you will? Like the whole "I won't even come out of the room, until you are GONE...part?"

Hmmm? WEIRD!!!

[Lauliza]

Originally Posted by coltranefanatic

To all those hankster, and amee.....

How does this explain his...almost..."recoiling" if you will? Like the whole "I won't even come out of the room, until you are GONE...part?"

Hmmm? WEIRD!!!

To me that isn't weird though. My pdoc sits at his desk when I say good bye. If he leaves his office it's a few minutes after a client, I've never seen him walk out with one. If yours normally does then I guess it would be weird. I just have a very different office environment.

[coltranefanatic]

I am always alone during therapy. There is NEVER anyone waiting to go in after me usually, only once did I come out of therapy to see two other people both of whom were going into to see other therapists. He PURPOSELY avoided me. I can only wonder what would have happened had I needed to use the ladies room!

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by coltranefanatic

I am always alone during therapy. There is NEVER anyone waiting to go in after me usually, only once did I come out of therapy to see two other people both of whom were going into to see other therapists. He PURPOSELY avoided me. I can only wonder what would have happened had I needed to use the ladies room!

I dont understand. Are you complaining that he is aware that he needs to keep a tighter hold on the boundaries? It sounds like you made your move, so to speak, and he is countering it. You keep trying to act something out - saying he reminds you of past paramours, implying he could be a future one? You were not in control of the initial situation as a 13 year old. A good t would not let you control him now in order to relive and fix the past, for example. I dont know what your fantasy is, but im guessing control is an issue somewhere? I have to keep reminding myself, i'm the client, he's the t - who is the one with the issues here? And i mean that seriously and literally - before i decide it's my t's issue, i have to remind myself - who called who for help?? Then i will address it with him eg "it feels to me like you are whatever...". We joke around a lot, but i dont play with him? There is some UNseriousness here that i find disturbing. I think you dont know yet if you are safe with your t - maybe that's why the emphasis on wanting to know what HE is thinking or feeling; needing to test him. My t and i do hug, but i still need to talk about safety and expectations a lot. Growing up i got no hugs, and all kinds of weird expectations. Sorry if this sounds or started off brusque - i dont edit, and i sometimes feel like i change my mind halfway thru a post!

[coltranefanatic]

yeah ummm........that came off very disjointed.

My issue was made absolutely clear and in detail. Just the facts m'am. My issue is that the man who has been across from me in the chair for all this time, clearly can't seem to handle me when I'm happy. And he avoids me like the plague unnecessarily.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by coltranefanatic

yeah ummm........that came off very disjointed.

My issue was made absolutely clear and in detail. Just the facts m'am. My issue is that the man who has been across from me in the chair for all this time, clearly can't seem to handle me when I'm happy. And he avoids me like the plague unnecessarily.

If your issue is the person sitting across from you, then your issue didnt exist before you met him. I ask you again, why are you in therapy? And i did address your question. Read more carefully.

[coltranefanatic]

Originally Posted by hankster

If your issue is the person sitting across from you, then your issue didnt exist before you met him. I ask you again, why are you in therapy? And i did address your question. Read more carefully.

I am in therapy for anger issues, rage, anxiety. I was raped, abused, had an eating disorder, and had to fight my way out of it alone. After enough years, it all builds up. No my issues with transference (the very subject of my initial coming here) did NOT happen before therapy.

And frankly, I don't like your insinuations of me "acting stuff out...." I'm not doing anything of the sort. I confessed my transference issues, I NEVER implied he could be a FUTURE PARAMOUR. WTF???? Where did that come from? Especially as I spent so much time here saying if in fact, the opposite, that the transference I was feeling felt absolutely imposing and worse, like betrayal.

[Lauliza]

The way I'm reading Hanksters comments is that there is more focus on the dynamic between you and your t and less on the issues you went into therapy for. An awful lot of energy is being spent trying to figure out what he's thinking and why he reacts the way he does. I do feel like you were going for a reaction here and he didn't give you the one you wanted. You told him these great things happened and you figured things out. Well, he may have been skeptical since everything was so much better, but you were elusive about the specifics. When he asked you to elaborate you flat out said no. That's a bit of game playing, and a T isn't going to engage in that. As to why he didn't leave his office, maybe he did purposely wait...it's possible he felt awkward as the session did seem to be a little off. It also could have been something that had nothing to do with you and was a cooincidence. It's more important for you to have clarity about the actual session, so I would definitely bring it up and hear what his response is.

[CantExplain]

Call me cynical, but maybe some therapists thrive on bad news and needy patients. Happy, confident patients do not fill THEIR needs.

[coltranefanatic]

Y'all....are not right. Unless the reaction I was looking for was "congrats, that's AWESOME!"

And seeing as how I confessed bout the transference ONCE, trust me we do not spend our sessions in deep contemplation about our dynamic. If anything I would think that my having gotten past my issues outside of therapy would have been seen as a positive, by a man who is supposed to get me to "think about my issues" right?

If it seems to this forum that there is more focus on the dynamic btween me and my t and less on issues I went into therapy for, it's because, no offense dear forum, there was absolutely no reason for me to come onto the forum in the first place, cause til this transference issue, I HAD NO ISSUES. Therapy sucks, it's a slog, but I'm committed to go. Til all this, there was no reason to seek a forum for additional insight. Sounds like more people here have their own issues that are being inflamed by mine, and the likes. I'll stop posting. Sorry to have wasted everyone's time.

[Harley47]

Hi Coltrane.

First, let me congratulate you for you confidence and demeanor in going in there. This is a major improvement from you dreading it. I would say you've come a ways in this, and should be proud.

As far as your therapist goes...I hate to admit it, but I'm baffled by his reaction. I feel like he should be happy to see you happy...excited that you're doing well, and at least professionally interested in your news. I don't understand...yes, it's prudent for him to be professional here, but "professional" shouldn't equate to "cold."

What it seems like to me (and with the note that therapy isn't my specialty, so...I say this as an outsider looking in), it seems to me that the moment he sensed that you weren't utterly reliant on him at that moment in time, he took a downward turn. I don't understand very well why that would be...perhaps he felt unneeded? Maybe he felt that your sudden upward turn might be indicative of something else (not sure why that would be, but...grabbing at anything I can to make sense out of him)? Speaking to a worst case scenario...maybe he dislikes having his "control" disrupted? Perhaps he felt spurned, if countertransference is a factor?

Of note to me is his reaction when you said you'd been getting help from friends...you mentioned he seemed skeptical? On top of that, it seems, based on your post, that his mood further darkened on top of that. I'm not sure why he would do that...it would seem to me he'd be happy to know you have a support network.

Perhaps it's me taking a negative view, and perhaps it's my own lack of firsthand knowledge on the subject, but for those with more experience than I on the matter...why the sudden shift? I know there's suppose to be a professional relationship here, but it seems like he's being "professional" to the point of near disinterest.

I'm eager to hear how next week goes...I hope to gather more on his behavior and perhaps formulate a better grasp on the dynamic. In the interim, for those who've more experience here than I, I'd love to hear your opinions on the matter.

Hugs, and congrats again for all your good news! I'm happy for you! I do hope things will continue to improve in time...I'm sorry that your last session through you for such a loop. I hope things will steady out a bit as things go on.

Hugs,
Harley

[anilam]

I don't get your reaction- ppl here are offering their views on things and support. We can't do more. Do we have our stuff that is influencing our replies? Sure, so does anyone (including you)

Anyway, I don't know why you were disappointed with him stopping the flirting? Wasn't that the whole point? I thought that's what you wanted...
Waiting till you leave, can't you really see he would not like to meet his clients on the way to the toilets? Plus he would have to chat with you some more... All and all most Ts would wait for the coast to be clear.

[Lauliza]

I didn't intend to offend you, so I apologize for that. But you were asking for insight and this is insight from another angle. From what you wrote in your post I feel like you were disappointed that your T backed off the flirting. You talked to him about the transference, and now he's toned it down. If he's a sexy guy and flirty by nature then flat may be his alternative and he sounds cold by comparison. So I guess I'm not understanding what you want from him here I guess.

[coltranefanatic]

He went from flirty and friendly to COLD. That is my issue. Not that he stopped flirting, but that he became a polar opposite. NO smile. He looked like an authority figure who is displeased with the person sitting across from him. I felt like I was going to get expelled from school or something. Why is this so hard to explain? I'd have been happy with A MIDDLE GROUND. A ****ing middle ground. Like, I'm still a friendly and positive guy, I'm still the guy you enjoy talking to (sorta), but I no longer flirt.

why is this so hard to explain?

Look. This issue, is pretty much going to either resolve itself, or I'll find another T with whom I don't have this rollercoaster up and down with. I just want STEADY. I want someone who doesn't intimidate me into not saying much (the former), and doesn't make me feel equally, like I have a snot bubble constantly hanging out of my nose (the current).

So let's just....move along. From what I read on these forums, my issues, are really among the lesser important here.

[Petra5ed]

Originally Posted by coltranefanatic

He went from flirty and friendly to COLD. That is my issue. Not that he stopped flirting, but that he became a polar opposite. NO smile. He looked like an authority figure who is displeased with the person sitting across from him. I felt like I was going to get expelled from school or something.

My theory... you seemed to have a strong attachment to the T and an intense kind of romantic transference. What if he feel's the same about you? Don't you feel your feelings returned from him? Flirtation is a two way street and it is hard to do if you're not feeling it. Now, imagine you switch places and instead he comes in with the attitude he's over it and doesn't feel transference for you, or to a lesser degree, but you're still deep in it. Ouch. I mean, when you came in he was smiling, he probably had an expectation of a kind of therapeutic intimacy and suddenly you've withdrawn it, and won't even let him in enough to explain what brought on the change. It might have come off to him as kind of mean, not to mention disappointing. Maybe he then wanted to hide how hurt he was by your happiness, so he emotionally withdrew from the session. He knew he wasn't at his best, so he ended it as soon as he could.