95% of male T's have felt sexually attracted to a client.

Cherubbs · Mar 17, 2014, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skies

I think this site has more valid and/or reliable data. There are also links to other studies available, in addition to charts and tables.

Sexual Attraction to Clients:

The Human Therapist and the (Sometimes) Inhuman Training System
Kenneth S. Pope

Barbara G. Tabachnick
Patricia Keith-Spiege

ABSTRACT: Although we currently possess considerable information about the incidence and consequences of sexually intimate relationships between psychotherapists and clients, there is virtually no documentation of the extent to which psychotherapists are sexually attracted to clients, how they react to and handle such feelings, and the degree to which their training is adequate in this regard. Feelings toward clients are generally relegated to vague and conflicting discussions of countertransference, without benefit of systematic research. Survey data from 575 psychotherapists reveal that 87% (95% of men, 76% of women) have been sexually attracted to their clients, at least on occasion, and that, although only a minority (9.4% of men and 2.5% of women) have acted out such feelings, many (63%) feel guilty, anxious, or confused about the attraction. About half of the respondents did not receive any guidance or training concerning this issue, and only 9% reported that their training or supervision was adequate. Implications for the development of educational resources to address this subject are discussed.

View citation and copyright.

Table 1 presents the frequencies and percentages of attractions for the sex and age groups of the therapists.

Table 2 describes in detail the frequencies and percentages of attraction to male and female clients by male and female therapists.

95% of male T's have felt sexually attracted to a client.

95% of male T's have felt sexually attracted to a client.

Sexual Attraction to Clients - The Human Therapist and the (Sometimes) Inhuman Training System

Wow thanks, that's a great resource.

""Mutuality was assessed by the question, "In instances when you were attracted to a client, was the client also attracted to you?" Most therapists (83%) believed that the attraction had been mutual.""

Well I stand by my original statement that two way attraction is far more common than some people like to believe. Good old fashioned 'looks, likeability and money' are the common attraction denominators - much like in the rest of the population.

CantExplain · Mar 17, 2014, 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTerroni

I'm not

Is that because you are not surprised, or because you don't disapprove?

Cherubbs · Mar 17, 2014, 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CantExplain

Say what?!?!?!?!?! 9.4% of male therapists have had sex with their patients? I'm appalled.

Acting on their attractions doesn't mean the full shenanigans right? Not that I don't think they do but there's quite a way between getting a bit touchy feely and actualy taking their clothes off.

Cherubbs · Mar 17, 2014, 01:56 AM

Oh there you go..
" The gender differences are significant: about 6.8% of the male therapists and about 1.6% of the female therapists reported engaging in sex with at least one patient. "

CantExplain · Mar 17, 2014, 02:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherubbs

Oh there you go..
" The gender differences are significant: about 6.8% of the male therapists and about 1.6% of the female therapists reported engaging in sex with at least one patient. "

And that doesn't include the ones who lied.

Cherubbs · Mar 17, 2014, 02:36 AM

I know, even in a survey. There's definitely a good few who are sitting legs and arms crossed, shaking their heads and denying everything.

Mar 17, 2014, 02:47 AM

I'd like to know the opposite. Being a man, I'm curious as to how often female therapists find male clients attractive. If I had to guess though, I'd think considerably less as I think it is hard for a woman to find a man attractive in the environment in which therapy takes place. No woman is going to think a crying or crazy man is hot. Just wont happen.

Cherubbs · Mar 17, 2014, 03:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I_am_pain

I'd like to know the opposite. Being a man, I'm curious as to how often female therapists find male clients attractive. If I had to guess though, I'd think considerably less as I think it is hard for a woman to find a man attractive in the environment in which therapy takes place. No woman is going to think a crying or crazy man is hot. Just wont happen.

"The gender differences are significant: about 6.8% of the male therapists and about 1.6% of the female therapists reported engaging in sex with at least one patient. "
It seems to be a large par but since sexual contact is usually initiated by the guy I'm not sure how representative it really is of attraction.

jacq10 · Mar 17, 2014, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherubbs

" The gender differences are significant: about 6.8% of the male therapists and about 1.6% of the female therapists reported engaging in sex with at least one patient. "

Again, wondering about the sample size (unequal number of females vs. males surveyed) and if the purpose of the survey was advertised... If you look to our society today, it's seen as more acceptable or even "cool" for men to be promiscuous and the opposite for women. This may just be a case of providing socially desirable responses... I still don't buy it.

Cherubbs · Mar 17, 2014, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jacq10

Again, wondering about the sample size (unequal number of females vs. males surveyed) and if the purpose of the survey was advertised... If you look to our society today, it's seen as more acceptable or even "cool" for men to be promiscuous and the opposite for women. This may just be a case of providing socially desirable responses... I still don't buy it.

Since the stats are identical I believe the research that 'skies' kindly posted is the original survey on which the article was based. It's a very interesting read whether or not you agree with the outcome. It's a shame more isn't done, there remains more questions than answers but it continues to be such a taboo area and I suppose potentially damaging to the profession that little is done to investigate it. Or so it seems.

Mar 17, 2014, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I_am_pain

I'd like to know the opposite. Being a man, I'm curious as to how often female therapists find male clients attractive. If I had to guess though, I'd think considerably less as I think it is hard for a woman to find a man attractive in the environment in which therapy takes place. No woman is going to think a crying or crazy man is hot. Just wont happen.

I have no evidence just my own opinion. I imagine most people who seek therapy are female and I would also guess the majority of predatory T's are male ( though still a minority).

I agree with what you say also. Let's not forget as well that with men, we often find many women sexually attractive but may have little to no romantic feelings for the woman. Men can separate sex from emotion more often then a woman can. So although many male T's may find their client sexually attractive, the vast majority won't act, and many that do are just sexual predators using the therapy as a cover for their perversions.

Mar 17, 2014, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jacq10

Again, wondering about the sample size (unequal number of females vs. males surveyed) and if the purpose of the survey was advertised... If you look to our society today, it's seen as more acceptable or even "cool" for men to be promiscuous and the opposite for women. This may just be a case of providing socially desirable responses... I still don't buy it.

This has always been the case with our society. I would argue women now days are more encouraged to be sexually promiscuous. It's biological, women have less testosterone and most have lower libido. All done because every time a young woman has sex, she has the issue of potential pregnancy, which a man doesn't.

jacq10 · Mar 17, 2014, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lycanthrope

I would argue women now days are more encouraged to be sexually promiscuous. It's biological, women have less testosterone and most have lower libido. All done because every time a young woman has sex, she has the issue of potential pregnancy, which a man doesn't.

Why would women be encouraged to be more promiscuous because they have the potential of becoming pregnant?

unaluna · Mar 17, 2014, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jacq10

Why would women be encouraged to be more promiscuous because they have the potential of becoming pregnant?

I didnt think he said that. But there is the issue of who controls the means of output of (re)production, to put it in terms of 1917 Russia?

Mar 17, 2014, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jacq10

Why would women be encouraged to be more promiscuous because they have the potential of becoming pregnant?

Women nowdays are having more and more sex with multiple partners then ever they were in the past.

The point I'm making is historically women haven't been a promicuous as men because it's biological in origin. You can blame it in stereotypes and man made beliefs but I don't agree. How comes a woman's sex drive often falls to non existence often after they've given birth? This is part exhaustion, part hormonal. It's natures way of making sure a woman doesn't have too many young children too soon, so she can provide the best for the new born child and make he/she as healthy as possible.

RTerroni · Mar 17, 2014, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CantExplain

Is that because you are not surprised, or because you don't disapprove?

Not surprised, sometimes there feelings get the best of them.

Lauliza · Mar 18, 2014, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lycanthrope

Women nowdays are having more and more sex with multiple partners then ever they were in the past.

The point I'm making is historically women haven't been a promicuous as men because it's biological in origin. You can blame it in stereotypes and man made beliefs but I don't agree. How comes a woman's sex drive often falls to non existence often after they've given birth? This is part exhaustion, part hormonal. It's natures way of making sure a woman doesn't have too many young children too soon, so she can provide the best for the new born child and make he/she as healthy as possible.

I know what you're saying here but need to point out that if is a big of a myth that women lose their sex drive as they age due entirely to biological factors.
Actually, post menopausal women enjoy pretty healthy sex drives, where the men's drive tends to drop. The decrease in sex after marriage is often due to a lot of complicated matters, some hormonal, sure. But others emotional. Unfortunately women who are for whatever reason displeased with or angry at their partners feel less attraction to them. Men are a little different in that they can compartmentalize their emotions from sex. Men think the partners have lost interest in sex altogether, when it's often the case that their wives have lost interest in THEM.

I think this ties into how female Ts relate with attractive male clients. The hotness of a man can go down a lot depending on what comes out of his mouth. Its a stereotype, but it is one that's been confirmed by some male friends (not scientific I know): the hotness factor of women isn't affected by much for guys when sex is involved, at least not initially. Regarding who they'd fall in love with yes, but not who they would sleep with.

Mar 18, 2014, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lauliza

I know what you're saying here but need to pint out that if is a big of a myth that women lose their sex drive as they age due to biological factors
Actually post menopausal women enjoy pretty healthy sex drives where the men's drive tends to drop. The decrease in sex after marriage is due to a lot of complicated matters, some hormonal sure. But others emotional. Unfortunately women who are for whatever reason displeased with or angry at their partners feel less attracted to them. Men are a little different in that they can compartmentalize emotions from sex. Men think the don't want sex at all when it's often the case that it's THEM they don't want to have sex with.

I think this ties into female Ts and attractive male clients. The hotness factor can go down a lot depending on what his personality is like. Its a stereotype, but now that's been confirmed by male friends: the hotness factor isn't affected by much for guys when sex is involved, at least not initially.

No, that's not what I meant. A woman's sex drive apparently hits it's peak at mid to late 30's. Why that is I'm not entirely sure but it could be that many women are more confident/knowledgeable about what turns them on. Sex often gets better with women with experience.

What I meant was, is that a woman's sex drive often drops to low to non existent levels after they've just given birth, and that's natures way of making sure the female doesn't get pregnant again too soon, so the best chances of survival for the child.

Lauliza · Mar 18, 2014, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lycanthrope

No, that's not what I meant. A woman's sex drive apparently hits it's peak at mid to late 30's. Why that is I'm not entirely sure but it could be that many women are more confident/knowledgeable about what turns them on. Sex often gets better with women with experience.

What I meant was, is that a woman's sex drive often drops to low to non existent levels after they've just given birth, and that's natures way of making sure the female doesn't get pregnant again too soon, so the best chances of survival for the child.

Ok I see what u mean about right after birth. especially if you are nursing it can be months before their sex drive returns. But unless something else is up, it does come back. 40 something women with kids have lost a little drive due to exhaustion and some biological factors (some which can be addressed). If middle aged women lack a sex drive it's often due to: antidepressants, some tiredness if they have young kids, and less than motivating partners. Women's sex drives peak in their 30's but their fertility drops in their 30's too. Women are most fertile in their teens and 20's. I'm not saying older married women don't lose their sex drives, but to say its next to non existant isn't true.

Mar 18, 2014, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lauliza

I don't necessarily agree with that though. I and many of my friends all have kids and are past 40 something and have lost a little drive due to exhaustion and some biological factors. But to say theu are low to almost non existent is, from what I've seen is not the case in general. If it is, it's due to: antidepressants, some tiredness if they have young kids, and less than motivating partners. Women's sex drives peak in their 30's but their fertility drops in their 30's too. Women are most fertile in their teens and 20's. I'm not saying older married women don't lose their sex drives, but to say its next to non existant isn't true.

You often here about men complaining the wife no longer wants sex after giving birth. Not straight away obviously, but it's been a problem for several months. I'd like to point out as well it's not a 100% certain thing. You get women who fall pregnant almost instantly after giving birth, I mean in general it's something you hear about quite often.

In regards to sexual feeling in therapy. A male is more likely to have sexual attraction but the sexual feelings are often based on that. A woman is less likely to have sexual attraction, but when she does, the feelings are more intense.

I fancied my female T the first time I saw her. But I also liked some random woman walking across the street. I would have liked to have sex with both but that didn't make it erotic transference.

Lauliza · Mar 18, 2014, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lycanthrope

You often here about men complaining the wife no longer wants sex after giving birth. Not straight away obviously, but it's been a problem for several months. I'd like to point out as well it's not a 100% certain thing. You get women who fall pregnant almost instantly after giving birth, I mean in general it's something you hear about quite often.

In regards to sexual feeling in therapy. A male is more likely to have sexual attraction but the sexual feelings are often based on that. A woman is less likely to have sexual attraction, but when she does, the feelings are more intense.

I fancied my female T the first time I saw her. But I also liked some random woman walking across the street. I would have liked to have sex with both but that didn't make it erotic transference.

I edited my post a little becasuse you are right about losing sex drive immediately after childbirth. Especially when nursing, it can be months before any sex drive comes back. Non nursing moms have it back a little sooner (hence, I think, the amount of kids born 11 or 12 months apart in the 1960's and 70's when it became more popular to bottle feed babies). But that's a digression, I just wanted to clarify that initially I misunderstood your original post about that.

Mar 18, 2014, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherubbs

"The gender differences are significant: about 6.8% of the male therapists and about 1.6% of the female therapists reported engaging in sex with at least one patient. "
It seems to be a large par but since sexual contact is usually initiated by the guy I'm not sure how representative it really is of attraction.

Another thing to take into account is that I would imagine a Male T is more likely to be reported for inappropriate sexual behavior then a female T. If a female T has sex with a male client, many male clients may consider it a positive experience, and lets be honest, if the female T is very attractive a male client probably isn't going to be complaining. Other men may think they'd be laughed at or too embarrassed to report it.

A male T who has sex with clients, especially females, is often seen as more predatory and females I would say are more likely to feel violated, used, see it as abuse and report the male T. So I think the 1.6% of female therapists having sex with clients is probably higher then the figures suggest.

Lauliza · Mar 18, 2014, 02:38 PM

A well respected psychiatrist at a major hospital where I live lost his license to pracetice medicine after a brief sexual relationship with a client. She was an attorney who saw him only two times apparently, and they slept together after she stopped seeing him. She ended up reporting him.

He had never had any misconduct prior to this and I think for the most part there was a lot of sympathy for the guy. He was the founder and director of an eating disorders program at this hospital, and his patients loved him. He was alowed to continue to work, but only in a research capacity and can no longer have any patient contact.

It is a really big deal, and I think the power lies with the patient. If they want to report something, it's over for the T or pdoc. He's older too so it was sad but also makes you wonder...risking an entire distinguished career at the age of 60 something to have sex? I don't mean to disrespect men, and though he's probably not the typical male, I think this is still a lot more likely to happen with a male provider than a female. I also agree that if it does, as Lycanthrope pointed out, a male patient is far less likely to report it.

CantExplain · Mar 18, 2014, 03:31 PM

If you have truly consensual sex with your therapist, it is bad manners to report it, in my view. (The same applies to sex with a married partner.) The rules are to protect the innocent, not for spiteful revenge.

Mar 18, 2014, 03:32 PM

I had a male client who had married his female therapist. They moved to our State from another State and asked me to check disciplinary records from our State Board to see if I thought she could get a license in this State after losing her license in their home State. My research showed that, in our State anyway, a T can have sex with a client, even multiple clients, and just get a short suspension (if they have multiple offenses) followed by a probationary period. If it has happened only once, they just get the probationary status for a time. So basically, some public humiliation and a slap on the wrist as long as they stop seeing the client with whom they had sex. HOWEVER, if a T actually falls in love with a client and wants to continue the relation, THEN the T loses his or her license. In our State anyway, the Board punishes a committed relationship that the T and the client both want to continue more severely than a T having casual sex with multiple clients.

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