[Petra5ed]

This is a question I suppose for women experiencing erotic transference for an older male T, or for men attracted to an older female T's, or anyone just wanting to weigh in on their experience/opinions. It seems like the incest parallel is always drawn when discussing attraction to an older "authority" type figure. Also frequently mentioned is this idea that having daddy or mommy "issues" (i.e. a bad relationship with your parents) pre-disposes you to these kinds of attractions. What I never understood though is how wanting to sleep with someone the polar opposite of your parent is incestuous. Or is it incestuous just due to the T being an older authority figure? Is a kid with a crush on a teacher also having "incestuous" feelings?

I guess what I'm getting at is, is this just sensationalist language or what am I missing about the incest element hidden in an attraction to an older, but unrelated party? They say most people look for someone like their parent in a long term partner, and no one accuses a girl who marries a boy with a lot of the same characteristics of her father as incestuous. But hypothetically, let's say my father was tall dark cold unemotional and abusive, and my T is short fair warm emotional and sensitive.

Is erotic transference to an older T really incestuous, or is it an attempt to capture unmet childhood needs along with adult needs simultaneously? Also aren't there actual reasons for women to be attracted to older men? Biologically speaking, reproductively, etc... George Clooney is 50 something and I'm sure most girls half his age would "do" him. I'd like to understand all the different opinions here, on this sensitive topic. Would a T's countertransference also be considered "incestuous"?

[unaluna]

Off the top of my head - incest should probably be reserved to describe the feelings for the older person to the younger person. Oedipal would be the term for younger towards older. Wanting to feel safe by marrying daddy, being afraid of going out into the world - these would be Oedipal conflicts that need to be worked through. They dont take advantage of anyone.

[AmysJourney]

Incest in my definition is only appropriate to describe a sexual contact between people who are too closely related in blood.

I am very open - probably because of my past, I was always attracted to older men. Sometimes significantly older. It was not incestuous, none of my relationships other than what happened in my family was. I would get into a huge argument with anyone who would try to convince me otherwise, haha.. In my opinion that is just BS! My relationships with older guys were always wonderful and fulfilling and I never chose them because I wanted them to take care of me or treat me like a child, but because I found them accomplished, wise, grounded, knowledgeable etc. I would not feel attracted to men my age or younger.

And I personally think, many women are attracted to older men anyway. I have never found a relationship with a guy my age satisfying on an emotional or intellectual level. And I personally think men become more attractive and interesting with age anyway I find Richard Gere one of the most attractive men now at his age. I wouldn't have felt any attraction to him in his younger years...

Not everything has to be put into clinical categories in my opinion. And if a woman is happy with an older guy, daddy complex or not, then I don't see a problem.

[nicoleflynn]

I agree with Amysjourney; culture seems to throw around words and phrases, using them for situations other than for what the original meaning was/is.

I have been in love with my t for 10 years (we are close in age).

As Freud said, 'sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."

If I had me my t anywhere else, I would have been drawn to him.

If a man is intellectual and knows how to dress...I am "toast." I find that rare, so guess I will have to stay with my t for a long time, lOL

[Lauliza]

MY male t whom I am attracted to was on the same dating site as me. He is 5 years older than me and his age parameters were 13 years younger than him up to 2 years shy of his age. I have to admit I was initially pissed off/ insulted since I was at the top of his range. It's not fair I know, his preference is none of mY business. But he's someone I go to for support about these very issues, and I liked (or still like) him. So to see him express in print the same sentiment as all the other guys out there, was upsetting to me. It's off topic I suppose but reading the thread made me think of how the reverse can be true as well.

When I was separated at 42, I dated and was willing to go older - both guys were 12 years older than me and at this point in life I don't see that as a huge difference. But I have a brother who is 13 years older than me so I'd say that could have something to do with my comfort level. As a teen and as a woman in my 20's I found many of the much older Hollywood actors attractive, but in real life it was a different story. I would not have chosen to go that much older at that young of an age, and I havent met a lot of women in my life who do. Now social reasons factor in, like status and money. So if its George Clooney then I bet many women half his age would "do" him...but just a regular normal guy, I don't know. It's a very specific preference, but who knows what all the reasons are?

I'd be more interested in what the issues are for the men who want to date women that are young enough to be a daughter?

[angelicgoldfish05]

Originally Posted by Petra5ed

Is erotic transference to an older T really incestuous, or is it an attempt to capture unmet childhood needs along with adult needs simultaneously? Also aren't there actual reasons for women to be attracted to older men? Biologically speaking, reproductively, etc... George Clooney is 50 something and I'm sure most girls half his age would "do" him. I'd like to understand all the different opinions here, on this sensitive topic. Would a T's countertransference also be considered "incestuous"?

I don't know if there is a general answer to this, I think it depends upon each individual's situation. For my own situation, I never experienced any incest growing up. My dad was pretty emotionally distant, but that's about the only "issue" I can think of regarding my dad. However, I have "fallen in love" with at least 2 older, male authority figures. One is an ex boss who was 5 years older than I, and then my ex-t who was 15 years older. So I'm not sure what this has to do with issues from childhood but it made sense to me biologically, and also from an evolutionary psychology standpoint (or reproductively as you say).

"The more desirable a man is (the more resourceful, the higher his social status, the physically more attractive), the larger the number of other women who would want to have sex with him regardless of whether he is married, either in an attempt to steal him away from his current mate (mate poaching) or in an attempt to be impregnated by him so that their child will have his superior genes..."

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-scientific-fundamentalist/200910/do-married-women-want-their-husbands-cheat

On the other hand, when older men are attracted to younger women, that seems to make sense on a similar level.

"The question many asked in 1998—"Why on earth would the most powerful man in the world jeopardize his job for an affair with a young woman?"—is, from a Darwinian perspective, a silly one. Betzig's answer would be: "Why not?" Men strive to attain political power, consciously or unconsciously, in order to have reproductive access to a larger number of women. Reproductive access to women is the goal, political office but one means. To ask why the President of the United States would have a sexual encounter with a young woman is like asking why someone who worked very hard to earn a large sum of money would then spend it."

http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200706/ten-politically-incorrect-truths-about-human-nature

Don't know how it is for everyone though, I do know know that as a 30-something female, unmarried with no children, my chances of "reproductive success" are probably cut in half due to my age. I believe my options are older men who are experiencing a mid-life crisis, or something similar. At this stage in the game, I almost need to be attracted to an older man because the men my own age are going to find someone younger.

I also agree with AmysJourney in that I am not attracted to younger men in general. So maybe it's just me.

Originally Posted by AmysJourney

And I personally think, many women are attracted to older men anyway. I have never found a relationship with a guy my age satisfying on an emotional or intellectual level. And I personally think men become more attractive and interesting with age anyway .

Tell me about it! Older men make better lovers too. Thanks for saying all this, Amy.

A few years ago I dated a guy my son's age.* We had a lot of fun together; in fact, we were very compatible in many ways. Then we had sex. One time. I just could not wait years teaching him until he became an experienced lover. It turned me off and I couldn't go out with him anymore. I felt bad about it, but i couldn't help it that i wasn't that aroused from him.

I think he had an oedipal complex too like me. haha

eta (*this could be misinterpreted, so i should probably note that he was over 21 at the time)

[krisakira]

Not everyone who is attracted to someone much older/younger should be considered to be incest or oedipal... My husband is 24 years older than me (a year younger than my father) and it is not based upon "daddy issues" nor do we go around acting as if he's my parent and I'm the child. He's nothing like my father. We are two consenting adults and that is all that should matter.

[Fermata]

I agree with absolutely everything that has been said here.

Krisakira - I am so happy that your relationship has worked out so well for you! My first boyfriend was 26 years older than me, which made him a year older than my father. I can say with confidence that our relationship was not based on 'daddy issues' at all because I never saw him as a father figure at any point during the 7 years we were together. In fact, I get on extremely well with my dad, and I believe we've always had a healthy father-daughter relationship

AmysJourney - Thank you for your excellent post. I actually got into a huge argument with my former T about this, because I'm also very passionate about the notion that age differences should not control who you can love Following on from what I wrote above, my second boyfriend was just one year older than me, and I definitely felt we weren't on the same level both emotionally and intellectually. I will always be attracted to older men, and speaking of which... It is a pity that Alan Rickman isn't available

[withoutthelove_]

My understanding of incest is sexual contact within immediate family.
The Oedipal Complex, I always thought, was where the child (son) falls in love with his mother and competes with his father for her attention, etc. Much like Hamlet, I always thought he to have an Oedipal complex towards Gertrude and Claudius. That bedroom scene before Polonius is murdered? Oedipal.

Fermata - I hear you loud and clear on Alan Rickman. I had the BIGGEST crush on him from ages 13-15. Ah, the memories.

[SabinaS]

I don't think falling in love with your T necessarily = 'mommy & daddy' issues, but generally we tend to fall for people who fit our unconscious needs/desires... these unconscious needs & desires usually stem from our very first relationships, mom & baby... then later on dad, siblings, gparents. It's what we experience in those early years that can influence our pattern of relating.

I guess it depends on the kind of therapist you have too though. Analytic therapists tend not to reveal anything about themselves, which makes it easier for the patient to transfer feelings. But if you see a therapist who discloses information about him/herself, I guess you get a better idea of their actual personality... what books they read, or what music they like, so you might feel as though you're falling in love with the person for real, and perhaps you do.

To cut it short... I think 'mommy & daddy' issues influence ALL of our romantic relationships

As far as transference goes, I don't think it matters whether your T is like your mom or your dad because it's about your desires and fantasies of who they are/were to you, internally. You can experience maternal transference with a male T and vice versa.

But regardless of childhood issues and transference, our feelings are still real and still very valid.