Trying to get out

It's hard to know exactly why people do things like this. Have you ever heard the saying.. "the road to hell is paved with good intentions"

There is a book by phillip zimbardo. He did the Stanford prison experiment. It's called "why good people do bad things". I recommend it

Unreal. He definitely sounds like a gaslighter. Probably unintentional as most gaslighters are. What Is Gaslighting

That's so hard!! I kind of had a similar experience with my old t only our relationship was dual and completely platonic.

A few words of advice from my new t that I want to pass along to you, which of course you can take or leave as you like. 1. You can't get it back. It can never the same again. He has already "poisoned the system" and there is no taking it back. Grieve the loss so you can learn to move forward. This will serve you better than clinging to the past. 2. You will never be able to understand what has happened or what is happening while you are still in the chaos. Once you get out, the clarity and understanding will come from the relief of the chronic confusion that has consumed you for so long. 3. This isn't your fault so be kind to yourself. You are a sane person caught up in a crazy-making situation. Leaving t1 is a process. As long as you keep working towards leaving, it will happen on your time.

My new t also suggested I check out Al Anon (my old t was/is an alcoholic) or Co-dependents anonymous meetings for added support, understanding, and help with letting go. Very, very helpful groups. Here's a link to co-dependents anonymous just in case...

New to CoDA? - CoDA.org

THere's a movie about it: The Stanford Prison Experiment (2015) - IMDb

It's on Amazon. It might be on Neflix too.

I watched it but it really freaked me out, the idea that people with a conscious can be capable of such horrendous behaviors. I could see such behaviors if you were trying to survive; save someone's life, etc., but in this context...very triggering.

Well he's both. Everyone has good and bad aspects; just different degrees.

It's totally ok to still love him for the good that he brought to you, while not putting up with the bad.

eta-just read JunkDNA's post that said something similar. Didn't intend to be repetitive.

Cried SO MUCH today. There are moments where I really feel like I can do it--just call and leave a very neutral simple message saying I'm discontinuing therapy, but it's fear of the aftermath that keeps me from actually following through. It's GOTTA end. I was walking home from yoga this morning and stopped to tie my shoe while walking over a bridge near my house and just really thought about flinging myself over because it just hurts too much. There are times where I can really completely and rationally get that this is NUTS and in no way worth it, and then I get so desperately sucked back in. I am legitimately afraid of what my life will be like without him. I know it doesn't make sense, because it's Hell WITH him, but I am so scared.

the movie wasnt very good in my opinion. the book explained the concept so much more articulately and in depth

its basically when people are given a mentality, usually about authority... they begin to think differently, and are able to misuse it, and some probably will in some ways. also sometimes people do actually think they are doing the "right" thing.

anyway i dont wanna deter the thread, sorry

Seriously consider going to a co-dependent meeting. It will probably help put your situation into perspective and allow you to give yourself some breathing room.

New to CoDA? - CoDA.org

I had the exact thoughts as you reading this entire thread.

Intermittent reinforcement and a trauma bond from T1's abuse.

Just looked at the link. There's a meeting literally 50 feet from my house on Wednesday nights but that's when I see T2!

Can't believe I got through today. Didn't think I would make it. I thought I was going to start drinking at noon. I waited till 7:30 and am having wine now.

Discovered something pretty big with my husband tonight. I was talking to him and said: "Honey, do you think you could please look at me when we're talking?"

He said eye contact has always been uncomfortable for him! I said: "But it's ME. We've been together 15 years. I need you to look at me and see me when we're talking--especially if I'm going to stop going to my therapist." (He doesn't know the details of what's happened with T1 but knows he hasn't helped me and definitely unconsciously knows it's an inappropriate relationship, but avoids talking about stuff like this.) He was annoyed at first that I said this to him but then a few minutes later came out of the kitchen and told me it's something that's been hard for him his whole life and something he talks to his therapist about a lot--that he doesn't want to look people in the eye. I told him it's a MAJORLY BIG DEAL for me and that I need to feel "seen" if I'm going to break away from this dude. He said he understands and that it's something that we can work on together.

Regarding T1, I left him a message yesterday saying I couldn't meet at the appointment time he offered this week. I don't know if he'll call me back tomorrow or not. The raging addict within me thinks the thing to do is to go back one more time, drop ALL of my graphic sexual fantasies on the table, then leave and call him the next day with a simple, unemotional message saying I've decided to end therapy.

I don't understand this line. I understand the part about inconsistency, but not the second part "which developed into an intensity...."

"Initially the person that had become an abuser was inconsistent in approach, which developed into an intensity perhaps not matched in other relationships of the victim."

Can anyone with a clear head explain this for me?

Ramona, you can build connection with your H.

Little things like him trying to make eye contact bit by bit. I've problems making eye contact with my SO but slowly made better and better eye contact. He can work with his T and you on this and it'll possibly also build the connection between you and him.

Couples therapy will help but in the meantime you can also look up blogs on Gottman Couples Therapy on building connection between the couple.

Connection with your H might really help.

Do you still have sexual fantasies about him?

Because the abuser is not consistent, your brain gets wired to dump a LOT of feel good chemicals in your brain when they give you crumbs.

Think of a starving person unable to get consistent food. You'll gorge on what little unpredictable food you can get.

Then after the high from the crumbs (which isn't truly hunger sating wears off), you crash and go into withdrawal needing your fix again. It makes intense highs and lows.

I'm like that with my sister and I'm obsessive over her for more than ten years.

Please try to cut T1 off. You will feel absolutely terrible but this cannot continue. You're being harmed.

Constantly. All day long. I can barely focus on anything else.

Well, that is interesting in a sense that you desire someone who has affected you so negatively and caused so much pain while (if I recall correctly) you don't have much for your husband who is kind and affectionate. I was just thinking, this is perhaps something you could potentially explore in more depth? With T2 and/or your husband.

Yes. There is clearly a giant red flag here. I would give up absolutely everything in my life except for my baby to be with T1 sexually. He's a relatively handsome guy, but he's by no means a hunk. He's 50 and a little dorky but handsome in a suit and I love him. But I'm smarter than he is and he doesn't understand me at all--I just have this insane sexual attraction to him. Everyone keeps telling me my behavior around this is very "young," which makes totally sense because I feel like I've been stuck in my early teen years since I met him. I spent most of my teen years miserable, but when I got past my depression around 22/23, I remember wishing I could tell my younger self: "it's all going to work out fine--like really great! And my life was really happy for like 12 years, and then the breakdown, and then T1. And I'm totally sidetracked and avoiding my life because of it.

It is so tiresome. The whole thing is so weird. And my husband knows it's weird. I told him I was going to fire T1 this week and then told him I didn't do it. He gave a sigh but didn't press me on it.

It's all so messy. And T1 is like "maybe this is exactly where the therapy is supposed to be..." I know in my heart he's a total tool but I desperately fantasize about him and want this sick **** to go on and on. I could totally stop it! I just have to call and say I'm not coming back, and then I'll melt down for a little while and then it'll be better for me. I know that it's true, but I'm afraid to take the leap.

I spend a LOT of time thinking about what I should wear to the next session that might turn him on and get him to say he wants me again.

Sometimes we remain drawn to and attracted to unsafe people because it mirrors earlier relationships we've had with attachment figures.

You can work on that with t2 or a female therapist, but NOT with t1 who is involved with all of this. He's unable to be objective and your therapy ended ages ago when he decided to use you to meet his needs.

If there was a way to cancel everything with T1 for you, block all communication channels to him, and physically stopping you from going to see him...

But there isn't. You have our support as you struggle to make the choices you need to make. It isn't just one big choice, but also lots of smaller ones regarding walking away from this harmful relationship.

I've stayed in harmful relationships, not judging you here. Trauma bonds are hard to break. Many return over and over again.

May you find the inner resources to leave him and not return.

Seeing both T1 AND T2 on Wednesday. Absolutely ridiculous. I am SO ****ING DEPRESSED about my life. I'm afraid that once I get rid of T1 it'll push me over the edge. I'd love to believe it'll actually be the thing that lifts this neverending weight off of me, but I am SO ****ING AFRAID.

I'm sorry I don't know all that is going on -- did you take on t2 initially because of the t1 situation or for other reasons?