Trying to get out

Talk with T2. Be blunt if you want. It's understandable to have major trust issues when you've been exploited by a therapist. T2 should know this. It's expected.

If he reacts badly, then you will know he is not good support for you.

My DD was 15 when she met PrevT, my T subsuquent to AbusivePDoc. DD was furious. DD barely sat down b4 she shouted at PrevT:
"Are you going to f!uck her, too!!?" PrevT did not blink and said something like, "Sounds like you're very angry..."
PrevT took her hostility ...at the end of the session DD reached to hug PrevT, and PrevT hugged her back.

If that's true then yes, you should. It's his job to understand how you're feeling and you need to be able to trust a T in the first place to even feel or be supported.

There was a moment where we were standing really close and hand arms locked because he had shown me this move and I got SUPER uncomfortable. I felt like "Oh my God, he's doing the exact same thing T1 did--and he's a psychopath who's going to twist it around on me and say it's all my fault and he was just trying to help me."

We were just standing super close and having a lot of physical contact and for a couple seconds it felt very sexual to me. I'm in a weird place right now and I probably will be for a long time and it just hit me like: "WTF are you doing Ramona? You're letting this guy do the exact same thing to you that T1 did." And I DID feel attracted to him (T2) and I never have before. Obviously there's been a bunch of sexual **** stirred up for me and then all the sudden I'm halfway in the arms of a guy that I sort of thinking of helping to "rescue" me from T1 and I was like "Oh my God,...it's happening AGAIN. I'm giving ANOTHER quack a bunch of money to get off on me."

I'm not even sure how I'll say it to him but I know I have to say something. I'm not OK with how things went yesterday.

I just sent this to T2:

Hi T2-

I really need to talk to you about yesterday’s session and I hope that you’ll be able to understand. I used to be super OK with people touching me and now I’m not—including you. I used to be TOTALLY OK with it. I’m not anymore. T1 ****ed me up real bad and when you were showing me that self defense thing yesterday I just completely left my body and thought—here is yet another person you’ve exposed your vulnerability to and now he’s exploiting it because you’ve let him know you can’t protect yourself. I thought “he’s touching you because he hopes you’ll develop an attraction to him now too and he can exploit you in the same way.”

I realize that what you were showing me was a method of defending myself, but I just want to be honest and say that all of the sudden my mind went to this place: “I told him exactly how T1 manipulated me and now he knows exactly how to do it and now I’m in this weird arm entanglement with him and he could do whatever he wanted to me and I’d be helpless.”

We’ve talked at length about how you would never take advantage of a patient in a vulnerable position —even those who have offered themselves to you sexually because of transference. We talked about this in the context of how T1 took advantage of me—but my trust is so decimated right now that when we were standing there all entangled I just thought “He told me all of those things about how he doesn’t take advantage of his patients like T1 took advantage of me—just so that he could TOTALLY manipulate and take advantage of me. I'm letting someone do the same thing to me all over again. I am a fool."

I felt scared of you and foolish for trusting you and too scared to tell you so I’m telling you now in an email.

I'm so ****ING tired! Why can't any therapists just be normal and professional???!!!?!?!?!

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I honestly don't think your T2 is doing anything that isn't professional, particularly in regards to what you are reacting to in your session yesterday. Your reaction is perhaps expected under the circumstances, but that doesn't mean how you are perceiving things is necessarily accurate. You are in a bit of a hypervigilant state which is understandable, but part of the hypervigilance is to recognize that is what is happening within you as opposed to what is actually happening in reality. (By the way, hypervigilance is a PTSD reaction which is what T1 has left you to deal with.) It is perfectly fine and a good idea to let T2 know how you perceived things and how you reacted internally to that contact, but try not to jump to fully buying into your own hypervigilance. That's a hard contradiction to square away in your mind; I understand that as I've had to deal with hypervigilance myself. But breathe and reason it out a bit. T2 is NOT T1. I know you know that; keep that distinction clear for yourself.

I don't know anything right now. I have been used and made a fool of and manipulated and exploited so many times over by T1 and other people that I DON'T know anything anymore.

Had to say what I said to T2. I think he'll be OK with it and know that I'm being hypervigilant as you said. Man, it makes me so ANGRY at T1 and his smug, smiling Facebook photos in trips around the world. I truly hope I can muster the courage to report him.

I'm a firm believer that actions speak louder than words. Bottom line--if his actions are making you uncomfortable that definitely needs to be discussed. (which you did and I think that's a really great step)

I think you discussed here before that T2 might also be a bit manipulative regarding trying to convince you to report T1. What happened to the female T you saw once, ramona? I may be wrong but still think that it would be best for you to work with someone that has no connection to that whole ordeal with T1. If you feel that T2 might be exploiting you in a similar way, even if he does not, it's a valid feeling to look at. Can it be that you don't want to find someone independent of all this and more objective, because on some level you do crave a repetition of the experience? Just some speculations, I might be totally off.

The female therapist I saw was lovely, but even more expensive than T2 (who is very expensive) and even worse than that she is ALL the way on the West side of town and I am all the way on the East side. It would be hours of travel every week to see her. Like HOURS.

I definitely need to fire T2. This week's session was a clear sign. In addition to being connected to the whole T1 situation, he is completely overwhelmed by his own problems and has a very sick child.

I've been looking for a therapist on my side of town but haven't been able to find anyone. I looked at my in-network insurance list and the options are NOT good. They honestly all look like they have less experience doing therapy than I have GOING to therapy. I need someone really experienced at this point. I would like an older woman who is in-network and at least relatively near my home and I'm struggling to find someone.

T2 has to go.

Did T2 respond to your email?
Could you see the female therapist just until you find one in-network near you?

T2 never should have sent that email to you about you "betraying your husband" even mistakenly. It should never have happened, it speaks volumes about his opinion about his judging you and your situation, and it would cause me to question the security of your private information. What has he "mistakenly" sent others?

That would be a deal-breaker for me. He could tell me he doesn't judge me until he is blue in the face but there it is in black and white.

Would you consider doing therapy over the phone? Many Ts offer that and you would not have so much biographical limitation that way. I did many phone sessions with my second T and found them just as helpful with certain things as in person, actually sometimes better because I was also attracted to that T and sometimes it could be a bit distracting in person even though it did not interfere with my therapy in any major way. You would not have that issue reacting to physical proximity.

No response. I probably won't hear from him until Monday. That's the other thing--he is overwhelmed with personal responsibilities. His baby is VERY sick and he has like over 30 patients he's juggling.

He also NEVER sends me monthly statements to get reimbursed from my insurance company. I've taken to just updating the old PDFs he's sent me before. I don't lie on them or anything--I just claim for the dates I saw him and the amount he charged me. It's been months since he sent me a statement and it takes months to get reimbursed so I just started doing it on my own so I could get my money. He is REALLY overwhelmed.

Do you mean a phone session with T2? I'm in a tiny apartment with my husband and baby so there is really no private place to talk. I'm also not a huge fan of phone sessions because I want to be able to see the person I'm talking to and how they're reacting to what I'm saying.

Not T2, I more meant with someone else who would be a good fit but may not be accessible due to geographical distance. Many do video sessions also, like Skype or FaceTime. I don't like video chats and if not in person, I prefer voice only, but many people use them. I said it as a potential compromise if you can't find anyone suitable locally, also thinking that you seem to get something out of discussing things on this anonymous forum.

But then there's still nowhere private for me to talk to them. I'm in a huge city. I just want a NORMAL therapist who has her **** together, takes my insurance, and I don't have to travel for hours to see. I'm going through the in-network list again right now. Why does everything have to be so effing difficult.

I don't want a "mindfulness" expert or any more ********. I want a normal, old school psychoanalytic therapist. A woman. One I can afford. And one who doesn't require me to take a Lord of the Rings like journey every week to get help. I am so FRUSTRATED and pissed off right now.

Really pissed at T2, and part of me always feels like I don't have the right to be because of his sick baby, which is another reason I really need to leave.

Ugh. In such a ****** place today. Wish I could kick T2 to the curb right this second.

Is there a local psychoanalytic institute who can give you a list of experienced analysts? They are v old school and also very into transference/countertransfence stuff

That's a good idea. I think there actually might be. I will look into that.

Just popped a half a klonopin in the middle of the day. I am so sad. i was really doing SO much better for almost two weeks and then the panic flooded me this past Monday and I've been back in the hole ever since. I thought I was out.

I have been a ****ing wreck all day. Just drowning in panic like I was for years. Drinking and popping pills and just telling my husband to take the baby out of the house cause I can't be around either of them right now. This is my hell and it's back.

T2 just wrote back:

Thank you for telling me - your point is completely valid, and I didn’t track that you had totally left you your body. That is entirely my fault, and my responsibility. I apologize for not noticing that, and only asking once if my hand on the shoulder was okay. I should have checked in much more often with you, especially given that I know all that stuff with T1. I acted without giving you due consideration. Again, that is my responsibility, and thus my fault. We will not do any hands-on work (even with the pads, like we had done before), unless you tell me otherwise and we explore that in depth.

The place that your mind went to - being manipulated, and wishing to say no - is a legit response to a very messed-up experience. It might be a good thing for us to work on strengthening that reflex - bringing it from awareness into action, especially with me. I know it’s scary to tell me, and I thank you for it. If there is anything I might do to be accountable for my lack of skill and awareness, please let me know.

Sincerely,
T2