Trying to get out

I don't think so! He's 50. He's the training director at one of the most prestigious institutes in the city!

This is exactly why I said you could now create a different ending, but it's only safe if you can be determined enough to stick with it.

As I often feel reading this forum, this intense ET stories remind me of the addiction I experienced. It was definitely not safe for me to be around alcohol after quitting because I had very intense cravings almost daily for a while. There is no such thing for me to moderate it, just impossible, and I had to accept that switch is broken forever. Staying away from it completely is actually much easier, but it was incredibly hard in the beginning. Sexual arousal is similar in that it creates pleasure that we crave after experiencing it and obviously it can defy reason.

Also reminds me of my story with my first therapist, who often behaved unprofessionally and was very inconsistent. It wasn't ET-related but I became very frustrated in the end and just left, never really discussed it with him in person. I just decided to schedule a single session with him now, after more than a year, to discuss why I left and I think it'll probably give me some satisfaction now. But I doubt it would have worked back then, I was very confused and he was extremely defensive, blaming me etc. He just made me feel worse about myself then. I emailed with him a bit to set up the appointment and a few other things this week, and he acted quite similarly in terms of trying to push his own interest and trying to get me want more sessions again. I just said a very definite 'no' today but I think the one meeting will help me close that chapter.

Maybe you could wait a bit before talking to him again so that the intensity of the current feelings are a bit less? Just say that you are stopping now and will get back to him if you want later?

I have mixed feelings giving advice on this as it's certainly not a simple situation with very clear quality and predictable outcome, but one thing is for sure: he will never really satisfy your cravings. And if he would, then it will eventually become much worse.

I agree that he may be worried not so much about you probably but possible negative consequences for himself.

Look. He thinks you will only get a valid, lasting result if you figure out how this is hurting you, on your own. Thats why he is giving you the brick wall now.

That device may work for some people. It didnt work for me. It just echoed how my parents (and later, my h) used to "test" me by putting me in an impossible situation, then encouraging me to make the wrong choice. Then of course they would be disappointed in my lack of character. But they would never explain what they were doing. I knew what was right or wrong, but i also knew i needed to please them or else. Basically, they were not being supportive in any way. T1 is not being supportive in any way, and i bet it echoes your past also.

I hope you can let t2 be in your corner and help you make a corrective experience out of this situation. T1 is going nowhere fast, except thru your checkbook. Its insane that he tells you to tell everybody. What kind of therapy is that? Like he is proving he has nothing to hide? Besides, he COULD have early onset alzheimers, its not too early. I dont think he does, i think he could be having a midlife crisis. Somebody fifteen years younger looks pretty darn good, no matter how they might be judged by their age peers.

Reminds of the case regarding Barbara Noel vs. Jules Masserman detailed in Noel's book, "You Must Be Dreaming."

Masserman was a prominent psychiatrist attached to Northwestern University Medical faculty and a former president of the American Psychiatric Association.

No one wanted to believe Noel's claims against the highly regarded psychiatrist.
He denied the charges while settling with several women's civil suits who claimed he drugged and abused them.

Jules Masserman, 89, Leader Of Psychiatric Group, Is Dead - NYTimes.com

It has felt so frigging great today to not email him back and even let him know I'm alive. Does that make me manipulative? I have spent SO many weekends in agony waiting to hear back from him while he's off living his life and now for once he's waiting to hear from me. I feel happy and free and not like such a mind slave to this guy. I'm afraid the second I email him back I'll lose all my power.

Don't write him back. Or at least if you do write him back, make it short. Let him know you're alive if you have to, but nothing else. I've gone through this myself before - the minute you send a long, painful message, you will feel as though you've lost your power. You will be left waiting for his reply, and you will undoubtedly not receive the reply you want.

That's you, taking back control. Enjoy.

Agreed. Probably better to keep it short, if you feel the need to write back at all. Maybe wait another day or two.

(Not that I can say anything about keeping e-mails short, because mine tend to get quite long...)

Unfortunately I sent him the long desperate sad email. On the up side, it might make him feel like ****. On the downside, he knows I'm alive and isn't crapping his pants over that any more. I'm really scared about what happens next. I should have let him wait all weekend.

I'm assuming he won't write back at all. I ended the message by saying I'd let him know about next week's session once I made a decision. I don't think he'll even write me back.

The thing that I think will hurt him most is not how I talked about how badly he hurt me, but that I said his colleague thinks he's so bad at his job he offered to knock the cancellation fee from T1 off his own fee because he thinks he's such a toxic therapist and said that sessions like him are "like drinking poison." I don't think he cares about me but knowing that a colleague thinks he's terrible at his job should make a slight dent in his ego, so there's that.

Well, with that I think he will at least think once or twice about what happened. I personally would be surprised if he left that unanswered, not because of your feelings primarily but because of what you said regarding his "professional competency". You will see.

This is what I personally would do:
I think this stage could potentially be an even better point for you to step away completely and definitively. You would leave with grace: expressed your feelings honestly (not in a passive aggressive manner) paid him for the last missed session, and there isn't much he can clearly do for you now. You said that you felt much better for a while before emailing him, I think that could be recaptured with not continuing now. If you want to do this, maybe just email him one sentence saying you are not going back.

Not sure what I said is the best strategy for everyone though. I think it reflects my own pattern (including my dismissive/avoidant tendencies), how I tend to leave relationships that are no longer good for me and I don't see a beneficial perspective in them. I think many people, including therapists, would suggest that you "work through it" with the T (I personally am always unsure what that means in a situation that is clearly destructive). I usually prefer to "work through" things like that on my own, analyze it for myself and figure out my roles and lessons in it. You could do that with T2.

Other than the above, I imagine one could go back and verbalize to him even more how he's screwed up and point out the ways it was wrong and harmful. My first therapist is a fan of such an approach, with an idea that expressing anger and frustration with full force can be healing especially for people who have a tendency to suppress such feelings and put blame on themselves instead excessively. I never found that very useful for me but do acknowledge it is for many people, including based on posts here on PC.

And I guess another option is going back and continuing what you had been doing with him, but I really doubt there is a way back to those pleasant feelings now. Probably it would rather turn into a desperate, dependent scenario, especially if the T was unwilling to fully own his role in it. I can only hope this won't be the follow-up for you.

My head is SUCH a mess. I'm swinging wildly between total hatred of this man and desperation to keep him in my life so I can feel that sexual aliveness that I've felt with him. I'm just so angry and confused and SAD. I feel like if I just hadn't told him how much him expressing his desire for me thrilled me we just could have gone on and I could have had this wonderful outlet to light me up inside once a week and could have used it to have good sex with my husband again and now everything has fallen apart and it's a total ****ing disaster. I just want to go back. I just want there to be a way to fix this so everything isn't so awful. I spent the morning hoping his house burned to the ground and then the last two hours desperately trying to figure out ways to save the relationship. It's an utter **** show.

Hugs, Ramona...I totally understand the mixed emotions here. Hang in there...

Completely can't handle it. Was so depressed and enraged I couldn't function today. Then I emailed him AGAIN saying I need to come in for at least one more appointment and was fine for the rest of the day. Cutting the cord is just too terrifying. I don't even know if he'll be WILLING to see me after that email, but I know that I couldn't bear what I was feeling all day, and then after I emailed him I was able to function. It was like before I emailed him I was 1000% sure I would never feel pretty or want to have sex ever again, and after I emailed him I felt like "OK, I can go on with my day now, I see him next week." He hasn't emailed back and I'm not even sure he'll be willing to see me, but I know that my brain COULD NOT FUNCTION before I sent the email asking to see him again! I wrote to him that I wasn't OK with things ending on this note and could I come back in on Friday at least once more to meet with him.

My brain is having a really hard time.

I have been following your story for a while and I can relate to some of the feelings you've expressed though not with the same intensity and obsession.

You seem to be an intelligent women and behind the desperation and passivity in the way in which you describe yourself and your relationship with this T, I assume that on the flip side there is an equally strong and powerful side of you which you are choosing to repress.

I'd encourage you to tap into that side of you, the side of you that is capable of standing up to this man who is not containing or exploring the meaning of your feelings but instead is exacerbating and feeding the intense longing you have for him for his own perverse benefit and his sheer ineptitude.

If you crave the connection that you both share, I want you to know that it is possible for you to find another therapist that you'd connect with equally well. A therapy relationship that would help you feel "sexually alive" as you often put it BUT at the same time a therapist who is competent and would safely contain and explore your sexuality. He would ideally be able to help you uncover the origin of your intense erotic transference and help you discharge and channel the passion inside of you to the appropriate source.

If you go back to this man, YOU are choosing to exploit yourself, because you know better. There has been a lot of wise posters here who are supporting and advising you and you'd have no one else to blame, not even this seedy therapist but YOURSELF. if you do continue to see him, own your choice, stop pretending that you're some victim of your sexual desire or of him. Acknowledge that you are CHOOSING to see him because there is a big part of you that is enjoying the experience. It is normal and makes sense. But until you own that you'll continue to waste your money and your life on an illusory relationship under the guise of feeling like you have no choice in the matter, but you do.

I'm sorry I know I haven't been posting in this thread, but I just wanted to reply to this. I am sure your intentions with this are good and meaning to empower the OP, which comes from a place of love.. but I think it's important to recognize that the OP has been taken advantage of, as the therapist holds a position of power. I think of it similar to a child, even in their teens, being unable to consent to an adult because of unequal power in the relationship (Not saying that you think like a child OP, sorry if it came out that way!). Blaming the person being taken advantage of and telling them it's their fault if things continue, in my opinion, does no more than encourage them to direct their anger inward and onto themselves. Also can cause misplaced guilt and shame ("I'm a bad person"
type of thinking). Just speaking from experience. This is in no way meant to attack your post or you, just a respectful disagreeing opinion!

I'm pretty clear my head is messed up on this. ColorsOfTheWind is right in that I am choosing to subject myself to this if I continue to go. I seriously truly CANNOT BEAR the thought of leaving him. When I entertain it, I completely break down. I can't breathe. I can't focus on anything else. Everything gets black and ugly and hopeless and my whole life feels like a dead end. After I emailed him yesterday saying I wanted another appointment (he still hasn't emailed back) I was able to breathe again and spend time with my husband and son fixing up our house and spend some time with a friend and felt like a normal person. I just don't feel mentally safe cutting this tie yet. It is a REAL mess but the terror and dread that drowns me when I think I'm never going to see him again is just too much for me now.

It might be too late. He might not even have me back since I sent that email.

I was thinking I've got to extricate myself more slowly and carefully. I went down to once a week. Then I skipped this last week, so I'm capable of doing two weeks. If I get to see him on Friday I'm going to tell him I need to come every other week from that point on. Maybe after a month of that I can go down to once a month. And then maybe I'll be ready to leave after a couple months of that.

It's more of the "harm reduction" approach to addiction rather than cold turkey. I don't have enough support for cold turkey right now. I'm just trying to figure this out as I fumble along. It's going to be painful any way it shakes down. Thanks again to you all for listening and responding with your honest feedback.

I agree with this post. The fact that a T is an authority figure makes this very different from, say, if you just had feelings for a coworker who was on the same level as you. T's have ethical and professional boundaries for a reason--to protect the client. Ramona, your T is not protecting you. This isn't your fault. And it's not a sign of weakness.

I can't seem to edit my post but I did not mean to imply that it is Ramona's fault in any way. Just trying to empower her to break away.

Ramona, I didn't mean to hurt you in any way. I wish you the best as you try to figure this out.

I know. I appreciate the feedback. I am split RIGHT down the middle here. I can feel it. I do a daily log of my thoughts for T2 so I can see at the end of the day how my brain is working. It goes something like this:

-I hate T1 and what I've let him do to my life; I am so enraged that he's taken my money and energy and time and that he lied to me and violated my heart and mind
-I go to yoga and think about him the whole time
-There has to be a way to work this out; I know he means me no harm; I'm not ready to leave; I know he's a kind man and we can find a way to work this out; I deserve to feel these good feelings I get from him; please don't tell me to leave him
-I'm hurting so much T1 hasn't written me back; this whole situation is sick, I have to get him out of my life
-I don't want him out of my life; I can handle this; I just need to not be so needy; I can just go a couple times a month and explore these sexual feelings; if I'm cut off from him completely it's unbearable

etc etc etc etc.....