[lucozader]

Hello. Sorry about the terrible post title, but that's basically how I'm feeling at the moment.

I just had my tenth session with my therapist. I've been experiencing extremely powerful erotic transference towards him over the last week, along with something that feels like an obsessive schoolgirl crush.

I spoke to him about it today, but my embarrassment was so strong that it made things very difficult. I felt the urge to run away or hide almost the whole time I was there.

I feel like I have a good insight into why I feel this way - I want to know that he cares about me, and in the past I used sex to feel validated in that way... Rationally I think it's completely ridiculous and that makes me feel so angry at myself. I kept using the word "pathetic" - I AM pathetic - he noticed it and said he'd like me to stop using it.

I've spent the whole of last week in a state of excitement, anxiety and arousal. It was torturous but I think it made a great distraction from the other problems in my life. Tonight I feel... Weirdly deflated. Fifty minutes doesn't seem like much at all and a week feels like a very long time to wait to see him again.

Sorry, I'm not sure exactly what I'm looking for here. Just needed to share my stuff.

[Moment]

I can really relate to what you've written. My transference waxes and wanes and can at times be really intense. I think it's good you're thinking about how this fits into past patterns in your life, and also how it can serve as a distraction. And that you're talking about it with your therapist. It's a totally natural and normal thing and it's no reason to feel pathetic in any way.

[WrkNPrgress]

You are NOT pathetic. This is pretty common and understandable reaction to having someone really focus on YOU. It touches all kinds of nerves in our brain and our body.

Take care of yourself and don't beat yourself up for it.

[lucozader]

Thank you both for your replies!

I guess I'm not very good at not beating myself up at the moment... It's like I can see your points, and his, that I'm not pathetic, but some other part of me screams it so much louder... "You ARE pathetic, stupid, ridiculous, crazy"...

[Moment]

What is "pathetic, stupid, ridiculous, crazy" about responding emotionally to someone who shows caring to you? It's very understandable.
I find that having these feelings point me to realize things about myself that I did not realize, and see needs I have in my life outside the therapy room that are not being fulfilled.

[lucozader]

Originally Posted by Moment

What is "pathetic, stupid, ridiculous, crazy" about responding emotionally to someone who shows caring to you? It's very understandable.
I find that having these feelings point me to realize things about myself that I did not realize, and see needs I have in my life outside the therapy room that are not being fulfilled.

Thank you Moment ❤️ I really appreciate your reassurance.

What makes me so angry with myself is how irrational I know I'm being - it's the same struggle I have with my anxiety.

I definitely think that this is leading to some really important realisations for me too - though rather than it being about wanting him because he cares, I think it might be kind of the opposite... I can't be sure that he cares (he's not one of those therapists who oozes empathy and kindness) and so I want to sleep with him to prove that he does. I've been using that tactic completely unsuccessfully since I was a teenager!

It's so ironic because rationally I know that if he slept with me he would not be caring about me at all - in fact he'd be a using me.

Sorry, unexpected ramble there. Again, I really appreciate your responses here. Thank you.

Edit: just realised I've basically repeated myself here quite a bit too, hah!

Instead of thinking it's pathetic, could you possibly use this state and the feelings as a source of positive energy? This may not be general but I always find having a good chemistry with someone and sexual tension very energizing and a great source of motivation to do things that often serve me well. Boost up my self care, get work and other chores done, make the changes that I procrastinate... even the sheer anticipation of seeing the person whose presence triggers this can be used as inspiration for me. And it does not have much to do with what actually happens between us in reality except having a good and respectful relationship. In fact, "making it real" would often kill the effect because it dampens the tension. I felt this way a bit about my last T and about quite a few work colleagues, teachers etc previously in my life and for me it always enhances the experience in a positive way even if unspoken. Just some ideas...

[lucozader]

Thank you for your input Xynesthesia. I think that's a really interesting point - I have definitely had more energy in the last couple of weeks, and been more cheerful, which is quite special considering how irritable and miserable I've been in recent times!

I'm not sure I can channel this energy quite as successfully as you have - some of the time I'm too distracted to do anything other than daydream - but it's definitely something I'll have a go at. There's also the question of whether I can use my rediscovered sex drive to do something about the lack of sexual intimacy between me and my partner... I feel like that might be wrong somehow? But that's a whole other story, hah!

[nicoleflynn]

Feelings aren't right or wrong....they simply....are. xo

Originally Posted by lucozader

There's also the question of whether I can use my rediscovered sex drive to do something about the lack of sexual intimacy between me and my partner... I feel like that might be wrong somehow? But that's a whole other story, hah!

I personally think that would be the healthiest use of these feelings and IMO a really constructive approach. Transfer the transference back to where it truly belongs and get your needs satisfied Of course I know it's only this simple talking about it...

Ramonajones had a similar story here although the more recent state of it is unclear as she has not updated for a while. I would recommend reading her threads in this subforum if you have not done so yet.

[Moment]

I don't know if it's as simple as "putting transference where it belongs" although I get what you are saying. The reason I think it is difficult is that I think when there's a lack of sexual intimacy in real life, coupled with sexual daydreams about the therapist, you've got to look for the meaning there.

Could the transference tells you the intimacy you feel in the therapy room is lacking in your outside life, and that you really need to feel alive?

Or, could it be a fear of intimacy? As in, you only let yourself feel these needs in the consulting room because you know nothing will actually happen there (assuming your therapist is ethical) so it is "safe"? If your therapist feels "safe" when what it is about people outside that feels "unsafe"?

Could it be revealing a deep sense that you must "pay" for someone's interest in you with sex? Or that you would only be interesting as a sexual/romantic object so there's a feeling that you have to try to get the person to be romantically interested in you?

Don't get me wrong, I think there can be a lot of real affection and even sexual energy between therapist and client because they are two normal adults and all of that is pretty hard-wired into us. But when it becomes sort of obsessively ruminating...Most people (myself included) who end up in therapy have issues with relationships, and therapy truly is a "love lab" where your approach to intimacy can be analyzed.

[lucozader]

Thank you again for sharing your thoughts, Moment and Xynesthesia.

Originally Posted by Xynesthesia

I personally think that would be the healthiest use of these feelings and IMO a really constructive approach. Transfer the transference back to where it truly belongs and get your needs satisfied Of course I know it's only this simple talking about it...

Ramonajones had a similar story here although the more recent state of it is unclear as she has not updated for a while. I would recommend reading her threads in this subforum if you have not done so yet.

I think it feels wrong to me because, well... I wouldn't be thinking of my partner. Rather than putting the transference back where it belongs (where does it belong? Interesting thought!) I think I'd actually just be using him as an... outlet for my misplaced feelings. I don't feel that would be fair on him, even if he would probably enjoy it!

I have read all of ramonajones' story - in the week or so before I actually posted here I read pretty much every post in the forum because I was so obsessed with understanding my feelings - or maybe just encouraging them! I found her posts upsetting to read because I felt that her therapist was not behaving ethically and was encouraging her feelings. Thankfully (or terribly, if you ask another part of me!) my therapist does not and is handling all this amazingly. In a way that just makes me love him more...

Originally Posted by Moment

I think when there's a lack of sexual intimacy in real life, coupled with sexual daydreams about the therapist, you've got to look for the meaning there.

I certainly agree with this, and working out exactly what's going on here is something that I'm putting a lot of work into. I'm not sure if your suggestions for possible reasons are directed at me, or just more general examples of what might be going on for someone in my position? None of them are true for me, though they're all very plausible and interesting possibilities! As I have talked about a bit in this thread, my habit in the past was to sleep with men in order to feel loved, and I suspect that I want to sleep with my therapist for this reason. My partner, on the other hand, well, I already know he loves me... so why bother? Yes, I realise how sad and horrible that sounds

[lucozader]

We had such a good session yesterday and my obsession is really bad today. I can't think of anything else. Argh argh argh

[lucozader]

I wish I could see him more often

Originally Posted by lucozader

We had such a good session yesterday and my obsession is really bad today. I can't think of anything else. Argh argh argh

I had experiences like that with both of my therapists but my intense preoccupation did not last long, in fact just one day after the critical session. I told the Ts about the thoughts and fantasies afterward and we derived some interesting meaning from them.

[lucozader]

Originally Posted by Xynesthesia

I had experiences like that with both of my therapists but my intense preoccupation did not last long, in fact just one day after the critical session. I told the Ts about the thoughts and fantasies afterward and we derived some interesting meaning from them.

Yeah, the day after I see him always seems to be the worst. Still going fairly strong today though...

If you don't mind me asking, what kinds of fantasies and thoughts did you share with your Ts and what were their reactions? Obviously you don't have to go into detail...

Yes I compared those days to a day of strong cravings for a drug. The thoughts just kept flooding my mind and I felt possessed. I enjoyed it though and the fantasies really boosted a real sexual experience for me once. I actually told my partner about the fantasies, not during sex but after. That turned into an interesting discussion as well.

Some of what I shared were similar to the kind of stuff people posted on this thread:
https://forums.psychcentral.com/roma...session-t.html

I also told them (and analyzed with them) what triggered the thoughts at those particular times as I did not otherwise have super intense ET. And in detail what sorts of visions came to my mind, what was happening in my fantasy stories, described the environment, how I felt about them. My first T was asking for a lot of detail, even stuff like how exactly we would get to physical interactions in my fantasies and how exactly we touched each-other. I think that T got a kick out of listening to and discussing that stuff, it was pretty clear to me that he had some countertransference going on but we never discussed that with him. The interesting bit was that I did not find him attractive at all in an erotic sense, it was triggered by a particular event that usually brings out this transference pattern for me: teachers, mentors etc - I took some classes with that T in addition to my individual therapy and the erotic fantasies came after the first class. It was weird telling him, looking at him, as I really did not find him appealing physically. It was a beautiful example for how transference works, I think. I got those feelings without any real physical attraction, just like I did with some of those mentors in my youth.

With my last therapist I did not go into so much graphic detail because I actually did find the guy very attractive and liked him a lot and we had some of this mutually (discussed it as well a bit). Again, I told him the actual fantasy scenes and stories. He listened to it and discussed it as any other topic but it definitely generated a certain vibe and sexual tension, which I enjoyed a lot with him and did not mind it was mere fantasy as I would never want to get involved with my therapist.

An example for what therapy material came from the sharing was that I normally tend to have quite a lot of adventurous, kinky fantasies but when I had that day with my first T, I somehow only imagined pretty conventional erotic scenes. The conclusion we made was that I probably desire more conventional relationships at this point of my life than earlier and what I am more used to.

My experiences with the ET discussions in therapy were pretty good but I've looked at that stuff earlier on my own and with friends a million times before so it wasn't a very new experience. I think that looking into what excites us in these fantasies can be informative, as well as how we behave in the fantasy scenes.

[lucozader]

Thank you so much for sharing that with me Xynesthesia. That thread is certainly interesting to read - though my fantasies are nothing like most of those romantic, caring scenes! My T knows now that my sexual preferences are fairly unconventional, but we haven't got into how that might link with my ET. The thought of being more specific about my fantasies with him is exciting (rather too exciting I think) but also terrifying...

I'm so scared that he might have any number of bad reactions to it, and therefore run away and refer me to someone else... he might be embarrassed, disgusted, scared that I'll stalk him or sexually assault him... or he might like it way too much, as it sounds like your first T did.

So far he hasn't given me an indication that he'd do any of these things, he seems to be handling it well... and he's a relationship therapist, so I imagine he's used to frank discussions about sex. There was one thing that happened last week though. The week before I'd had a bunch of topics on my mind at the end of the session, and he'd written them on his whiteboard to help me get my head in order a bit. He brought that up at the beginning of the next session, and managed to remember them (impressive - I certainly felt special!) and write them down again. But the only one he didn't remember was erotic transference! With some awkwardness from me and a proclamation of "I can't say it" (I'm not able to say those words out loud with him) he did work it out, and said "oh, I didn't think we'd written that one on the board"... but don't you think it says something about his attitude towards it? Perhaps he is afraid to explore it too deeply, maybe not even consciously... What would Freud say about his 'forgetting it', eh?

[lucozader]

Originally Posted by Xynesthesia

Yes I compared those days to a day of strong cravings for a drug. The thoughts just kept flooding my mind and I felt possessed.

Ah, yes, that's very accurate to my experience too! One of the things I wrote down about it in my random-thoughts diary was that I felt like my mind and body had been 'hijacked'!

It might also be that your T did not forget the ET at all but did not want to bring it up himself and just pretended that he forgot it. I think therapists often believe that sex is a generally more sensitive topic than many others and they would not initiate such a discussion but wait for the client to do so. The other thought I had is that they listen to sex and relationship stuff all the time and perhaps for them it's not that special and not harder to forget that other topics if there is a bunch.

My second T actually seemed to kinda avoid talking about ET even when I brought it up just as my past experiences and pattern. I got curious as to why and kept pushing him and that's how we finally got into discussing that we both found each-other attractive. I always hear and read here on PC that it's not good for a T to share such feelings with a client but for me it was quite illuminating regarding what features men may typically find attractive in me (focused on the mental/personality aspects of course, not much on physical) or are drawn to in "inappropriate" situations (like I had a lot with colleagues, those mentors etc), what triggers them in me and my behavior. How it works on both sides. It was interesting that both of my Ts were triggered as well and I was grateful to the second one for explaining. I got into so many complicated situations due to my ET pattern earlier in my life, nothing abusive or destructive for me, but complicated.

[lucozader]

Originally Posted by Xynesthesia

It might also be that your T did not forget the ET at all but did not want to bring it up himself and just pretended that he forgot it. I think therapists often believe that sex is a generally more sensitive topic than many others and they would not initiate such a discussion but wait for the client to do so. The other thought I had is that they listen to sex and relationship stuff all the time and perhaps for them it's not that special and not harder to forget that other topics if there is a bunch.

Yes, you're right - either of those could be true. It did also occur to me that perhaps he just doesn't want to seem too eager to discuss it - in case I find that arrogant or worry that he's too into it. If I'm honest it would upset me to think that he just finds the topic so everyday and mundane that he genuinely forgot it - I'd rather he felt something in response to my passionate feelings! It would also make him a bit of a rubbish therapist I think, because it would have been clear to anyone with any sensitivity that the topic was very much on my mind during the previous session.

Originally Posted by Xynesthesia

My second T actually seemed to kinda avoid talking about ET even when I brought it up just as my past experiences and pattern. I got curious as to why and kept pushing him and that's how we finally got into discussing that we both found each-other attractive. I always hear and read here on PC that it's not good for a T to share such feelings with a client...

I'm glad it worked for you but I agree with the general opinion that it's usually very unethical and untherapeutic for a T to do that. I know that it would be pretty devastating for me if my T admitted returning my feelings - my obsession and frustration would ramp up to an unbearable level. It's my ultimate fantasy that he shares my feelings, and yet on a rational level I know it would be terrible.

Thanks again for sharing your thoughts, I really appreciate your input - this forum has already become such a great support to me!

I think my therapist only shared his feelings when/because it was very clear that it did not affect me in any harmful way or triggered anything potentially negative. Or that it would not tap into some painful unresolved issue. We often talked about our similarities in many ways (he would usually mention some of his interests and experiences in response to my stories, but nothing intimate) and talking about the shared feelings were sort of like part of that. It wasn't some huge consuming passion or longing, our relationship was always very professional and I liked it that way. I discussed my ET flare-up with him in a very calm, analytic way and he did so, too. It was all very respectful and nothing needy or manipulative. It was quite therapeutic for me and provided useful information, otherwise I also agree that in most cases it's unethical for a T to reveal feelings like this, although I am not sure it's better when they let it show through their reactions and behavior and the client senses it anyway but it's never clarified and affects everything as an undercurrent. Very individual thing, I believe.

Based on all you were describing, your T probably did not really forget it

[lucozader]

Originally Posted by Xynesthesia

I am not sure it's better when they let it show through their reactions and behavior and the client senses it anyway but it's never clarified and affects everything as an undercurrent.

Oh definitely, I think that could sometimes be worse, particularly if the T isn't very self-aware. Reciprocated ET is definitely a really tricky area for a T to navigate. I think that often results in a referral to another therapist... which is another thing that has to be executed very carefully and ethically to avoid emotional damage to the client!

Let's hope my T doesn't fancy me eh?

Well I would have been sad if my T referred me out because of this as I was quite happy with him as a T. I believe it wasn't a big thing for him, more just the kind of attraction when we simply acknowledge to ourselves that we feel good in the company of someone and they are pleasant to look at and just being in one room with. Not in the range of falling in love with someone. Or if it was more intense/complex for him, he certainly did not let that show.

More on the ET discussions: I think if you have unconventional sexual and relationship interests and your fantasies reflect that, it might be quite good material to explore where your interests come from and what needs they reflect. I would be interested in digging into that sort of stuff at least.

[lucozader]

Originally Posted by Xynesthesia

More on the ET discussions: I think if you have unconventional sexual and relationship interests and your fantasies reflect that, it might be quite good material to explore where your interests come from and what needs they reflect. I would be interested in digging into that sort of stuff at least.

Yeah, I feel very strongly that my sexual preferences and fantasies are important here, that's why I started to bring them up last session - though I didn't talk about them in relation to him. I told him that I feel they are a piece of the puzzle, but that I'm not quite sure where they fit in yet. I definitely don't know where they come from or what needs they reflect but I would like to work that out.

Do you think I should tell him my fantasies?! Am I capable of that...?