[Bluebellacotta]

I written about this before. But my story is that I’ve been seeing my psychologist for a year plus. He’s youngish maybe 33-35. He’s attractive to me. I understand transference and countertranference. I also understand that clients can start thinking that their therapist likes them when they don’t.

I thought this when I first started, but I have a few theories. I should also note that I’m studying psychology myself, just started and I haven’t told him.

In my last session. While I was talking, he slowly ran his hands through his hair. He had a fresh cut, it was short, there wasn’t any hair out of place. I had stopped feeling uncomfortable months ago due to me thinking he was cute. But it happened again. He didn’t do it once, maybe three or four times and the eye contact - to me- seemed slightly sultry. Very very slightly...seductive that I had to look away.

My theory is that he knows that’s preening, but it seems conscious. I’m in sales and right before a customer has asked me out, they run their hands through their hair but nervously and I know it’s coming. This seems deliberate. I don’t mirror because I don’t want to. But I note his cheeks are blushing, it’s cold as well. He could be frustrated but he’s not short with me.

But as he does it, all I can think of is what is he doing. And when I leave, for the first time in a long time. My face was hot, but I don’t think he could see because of my makeup.

A few sessions ago he asked or in a way (the way I took it) was that maybe I was dependent or used these sessions to get a kick. I sometimes think that he does.

Any thoughts? And I’m aware it could be me wanting to see something. But it’s bugging me

[ZEN218]

You seem very astute at reading body language/expressions etc. I have similar abilities that i didnt really realize were heightened until a couple of yrs ago.

Im curious if you had a parent(s) who was often & unpredictably violent ( whether physically or emotionally )?

After some realizations took place, i discovered that this is why i automatically "read" people in the manner that i do.

Im sorry that i dont have anything to offer as to your original query, but i felt compelled to comment on the impressive read.

[koru_kiwi]

in the early days of therapy with my ex-T, i noticed him running his fingers through his hair quite a few times during different sessions. and during these brief moments, i experienced it as if i was seeing a 'younger' version (teenage?) of my T and, just for that moment, i could sense he was not really fully in the 'T zone'. to me, it seemed more like a nervous reaction or thought to what i had been discussing at the time and it seemed almost innocently flirtatious in nature too. i am not sure if he really was aware that he was dong it, but it did make me wonder if he was having some kind of 'erotic' counter transference towards me.

[Bluebellacotta]

Originally Posted by koru_kiwi

in the early days of therapy with my ex-T, i noticed him running his fingers through his hair quite a few times during different sessions. and during these brief moments, i experienced it as if i was seeing a 'younger' version (teenage?) of my T and, just for that moment, i could sense he was not really fully in the 'T zone'. to me, it seemed more like a nervous reaction or thought to what i had been discussing at the time and it seemed almost innocently flirtatious in nature too. i am not sure if he really was aware that he was dong it, but it did make me wonder if he was having some kind of 'erotic' counter transference towards me.

Thanks for the response. I’ve been and now over the roller coaster of transference. And I had this crazy theory before. The reason I thought he might be doing it on purpose is one: I’m really insecure and couldn’t accept that it might be attraction and two:I initially cane to him because I emotionally cheated on my boyfriend and maybe it was to recreate what I’d done and bring attention to it.

But I think it’s the simplest explanation that, as you said, he was not in his T zone which he sometimes drifts out of. I always felt like I needed to control myself or really exercise control and understand that it all ends in the room and the mind plays tricks. But I also felt like I was watching someone open up overtime and it was a bit intimidating. I’m not saying he was or is unprofessional, he just got under my skin and I didn’t want to show it

[Bluebellacotta]

Originally Posted by ZEN218

You seem very astute at reading body language/expressions etc. I have similar abilities that i didnt really realize were heightened until a couple of yrs ago.

Im curious if you had a parent(s) who was often & unpredictably violent ( whether physically or emotionally )?

After some realizations took place, i discovered that this is why i automatically "read" people in the manner that i do.

Im sorry that i dont have anything to offer as to your original query, but i felt compelled to comment on the impressive read.

thanks for your input. I hope I’m good at reading people.
Yeah my mother was unpredictability violent both physically and emotionally.
I think I watch people a lot more than I talk to them. I should tell my psychologist that actually

[TeaVicar?]

The hair thing is a classic sign of attraction in body language terms... though it might be a sign that he fancies himself

I think that this kind of body language tends to be unconscious and not intentional. In my experience men tend to be much less subtle with flirting!

It's an interesting question though - how does a therapist's desire affect the patient's journey through his/her own desire for the therapist. From papers I've read on the subject, it seems that the client's progress (of getting over/through the desire) often stalls when both parties are struggling with unconscious processes. This suggests that a therapist's desire towards their patient, and whether they are actively 'dealing' with it (either in their own therapy or supervision) can have an impact on the client's progress. Meanwhile the stalling in progress is put down to the client's 'resistance' to the process. This could go on for years and all the while the client is totally oblivious... unless they are good at reading body language!

[nicoleflynn]

My t led me on.....big time....you can pm me if you want to hear what happened.

[ZEN218]

Originally Posted by Bluebellacotta

thanks for your input. I hope I’m good at reading people.
Yeah my mother was unpredictability violent both physically and emotionally.
I think I watch people a lot more than I talk to them. I should tell my psychologist that actually

When a skill is learned at a very young age, it becomes exceptional in most cases due to the learning ability at play. Some kids learn the piano, a 2nd language or how to golf at toddler age & then become amongst the best/fluent.

Some of "us" learned how to do this other kind of stuff, im pretty confident that you are exceptional at sales.

[Bluebellacotta]

Originally Posted by TeaVicar?

The hair thing is a classic sign of attraction in body language terms... though it might be a sign that he fancies himself

I think that this kind of body language tends to be unconscious and not intentional. In my experience men tend to be much less subtle with flirting!

It's an interesting question though - how does a therapist's desire affect the patient's journey through his/her own desire for the therapist. From papers I've read on the subject, it seems that the client's progress (of getting over/through the desire) often stalls when both parties are struggling with unconscious processes. This suggests that a therapist's desire towards their patient, and whether they are actively 'dealing' with it (either in their own therapy or supervision) can have an impact on the client's progress. Meanwhile the stalling in progress is put down to the client's 'resistance' to the process. This could go on for years and all the while the client is totally oblivious... unless they are good at reading body language!

It’s a hard one. All that I’ve read points towards telling him and working through it. But I feel in knowing that loving, sexual feelings can be a “side affect” of therapy I’ve just put it down to that. But if I ever told him, I’d feel as though it would be put it back onto me. I think I spent a long time thinking he was this villain because I also found him attractive and felt he played on it. I actually think it was my way of putting the blame on him and not owning up to the fact I understood how I felt but still went back to him. Then again, I also think that had I just owned up to it, then everything would make sense to everyone

But I always felt like I was responsible for how I felt. But there’s a whole lot of guilt, I broke up with my boyfriend while he was helping me. Now I think a lot about him.

I feel like I’ve bonded with him now. It’s not like he’s super nice to me or we are friends, if anything Im Sometimes indifferent to him to keep my attraction at arms length. But I trust him. But my mind freaks out when he deviates a little from his role

[BudFox]

I'm male, and had a female therapist who did things to provoke me... body language, tone of voice, and one time did a subtle cleavage reveal when i walked in. She already knew at that point I had feelings for her.

I think it was not about me, it was her way of getting attention and praise. Maybe was unconscious. It was all disgustingly manipulative and there was nothing healthy about it and nothing to be gained.

I bet many therapists are junkies for client worship and longing, and use the therapy space to get high as a kite, even if they don;t know they are doing it.

[Bluebellacotta]

Originally Posted by BudFox

I'm male, and had a female therapist who did things to provoke me... body language, tone of voice, and one time did a subtle cleavage reveal when i walked in. She already knew at that point I had feelings for her.

I think it was not about me, it was her way of getting attention and praise. Maybe was unconscious. It was all disgustingly manipulative and there was nothing healthy about it and nothing to be gained.

I bet many therapists are junkies for client worship and longing, and use the therapy space to get high as a kite, even if they don;t know they are doing it.

I can see what you mean. Have you watched Gypsy? I think you may not like it or it may be upsetting but I think the main character in the show has this issue

[koru_kiwi]

Originally Posted by TeaVicar?

It's an interesting question though - how does a therapist's desire affect the patient's journey through his/her own desire for the therapist. From papers I've read on the subject, it seems that the client's progress (of getting over/through the desire) often stalls when both parties are struggling with unconscious processes. This suggests that a therapist's desire towards their patient, and whether they are actively 'dealing' with it (either in their own therapy or supervision) can have an impact on the client's progress. Meanwhile the stalling in progress is put down to the client's 'resistance' to the process. This could go on for years and all the while the client is totally oblivious... unless they are good at reading body language!

thanks for this info, it is very validating for me. there was a lot of stagnation in my progress in therapy and i have always wondered and suspected that it was because of my ex-Ts 'feelings' (conscious or not) for me. when i was tired of my therapy stalling, i did bring it up and discussed it directly with him and this resulted in him retreating (pulling away from me) and changing the boundaries without any discussion with me. it lead to one of our biggest ruptures and me eventually taking a six week break from therapy. i eventually brought it up again over a year later and talked of the rupture and what lead to my break and that is when he realised he had 'f@#cked up' and he apologised for mishandling the situation. i think he was hoping we could then address and work on that issue, but all i was seeking was the apology. The session after that, i told him it would be my last and that i was terminating.

when my therapy kept stalling before that rupture, similar to what you said, the blame was put onto me, but my gut kept telling me otherwise. it was incredibly frustrating and that is the only reason why i finally gained the courage to confront him. i was hoping for a much better outcome then the one i got. he definilty was not the mature T that i thought he was at that time. the experince definitely opened my eyes and forever changed my personal goals and direction in therapy.

[BudFox]

Originally Posted by Bluebellacotta

I can see what you mean. Have you watched Gypsy? I think you may not like it or it may be upsetting but I think the main character in the show has this issue

Thanks, no have not seen it.

[Two2]

Originally Posted by TeaVicar?

The hair thing is a classic sign of attraction in body language terms... though it might be a sign that he fancies himself

Really? Hmmmm..... I'm attracted to my new T and I was playing with my hair and looking at it a lot in my appointment with him. Do you think he knew I was attracted to him based on that? Or has suspicions? I don't normally play with my hair (he doesn't know my mannerisms either because this was my first appt with him).

[luvyrself]

So get a woman therapist. This is supposed to be about YOU so try to focus on yr own issues or give them a bill for analyzing THEIR problems. So many people are obsessing about their therapists. If we can’t even keep our focus on ourselves in therapy, how can we focus on whatever is the task at hand in any life transaction?

[Ididitmyway]

Originally Posted by luvyrself

So get a woman therapist. This is supposed to be about YOU so try to focus on yr own issues or give them a bill for analyzing THEIR problems. So many people are obsessing about their therapists. If we can’t even keep our focus on ourselves in therapy, how can we focus on whatever is the task at hand in any life transaction?

Couldn't agree more.

If in your therapy you start focusing more on the therapist's gestures ( like what he does with his hair or whatever else) than on your own problems you need to resolve, then either this particular therapist is not suitable for you or you have to ask yourself honestly whether you are really committed to your personal work.

In that sense, it doesn't matter if the therapist is attracted to you or not. Whether he is or he isn't, if you become more interested in whether he has feelings for you or not than in addressing your own problems, then your therapy is a waste of time.

Check your own motivations, and, if you are truly committed to work on yourself and you feel like this therapist's gestures, whatever they are, are too much of a distraction from your personal work, then get a different therapist. It doesn't have to be a woman. It may be a man whose behavior isn't confusing and you won't have to "read" him.

[BudFox]

I think therapy compels people to obsess over the therapist's gestures and behaviors, because therapists are obscure and evasive and their bizarre role playing disorients people. So the client becomes consumed with trying to figure out what the hell is going on. I see it as normal given the circumstances.

[SlumberKitty]

Originally Posted by BudFox

I think therapy compels people to obsess over the therapist's gestures and behaviors, because therapists are obscure and evasive and their bizarre role playing disorients people. So the client becomes consumed with trying to figure out what the hell is going on. I see it as normal given the circumstances.

I agree with that. Therapy can be mystifying.

[Girl from Europe]

Originally Posted by koru_kiwi

thanks for this info, it is very validating for me. there was a lot of stagnation in my progress in therapy and i have always wondered and suspected that it was because of my ex-Ts 'feelings' (conscious or not) for me. when i was tired of my therapy stalling, i did bring it up and discussed it directly with him and this resulted in him retreating (pulling away from me) and changing the boundaries without any discussion with me. it lead to one of our biggest ruptures and me eventually taking a six week break from therapy. i eventually brought it up again over a year later and talked of the rupture and what lead to my break and that is when he realised he had 'f@#cked up' and he apologised for mishandling the situation. i think he was hoping we could then address and work on that issue, but all i was seeking was the apology. The session after that, i told him it would be my last and that i was terminating.

when my therapy kept stalling before that rupture, similar to what you said, the blame was put onto me, but my gut kept telling me otherwise. it was incredibly frustrating and that is the only reason why i finally gained the courage to confront him. i was hoping for a much better outcome then the one i got. he definilty was not the mature T that i thought he was at that time. the experince definitely opened my eyes and forever changed my personal goals and direction in therapy.

Hi,
I think what You describe is what would happen if I decided to confront openly my T about his behavior with me. When I slightly confronted (very slightly) the topic, he was becoming very distant and closed to me. So I am afraid now of a rejection and that's why I don't say anything, even if he's is creating often some sexualized atmosphere between us. I try not to think about it, but it's not easy.

Could I ask what kind of therapy was it? I find this kind of behavior frequent in CBT therapies.

P.S. You had a real courage to confront Your therapist, congratulations to You.

[koru_kiwi]

Originally Posted by Girl from Europe

Could I ask what kind of therapy was it? I find this kind of behavior frequent in CBT therapies.

it was psychodynamic. so a lot of transference was encouraged in the therapy and the relationship.

Originally Posted by Girl from Europe

You had a real courage to confront Your therapist, congratulations to You.

thanks, that is one of the positive things i did learn from my ex-T, to be open and honest with my feelings. he often tried to model transparency and openness in the therapeutic relationship, so that is why this was so confusing for me, because at a time when i was at my most vulnerable with him, he backed down from his own values due to protecting his own interests first and foremost. when the original rupture happened it felt like a dagger had been thrust in my heart and a year later when i knew the end of therapy was near for me, it felt quite important for me to try to heal that wound before ending. i had nothing to lose by being completely honest and bringing those hurt feelings up to my T at that point. it definilty was an incredibly empowering achievement for me to end therapy with.