Therapist/client exploitation- the early days

I’m putting this in the ‘romantic’ folder, but none of my posts about this are about ‘romance.’

When you first suspected you might have been exploited by a doctor or mental health professional, was it hard for you to decide who you would ask about it? Was it hard to trust and ask the other doctors or mental health professionals around you?
Or, maybe this was just my issue?

Pdoc told me what we were doing (sexual intimacies) was therapeutic for me. (For reals, that’s what he said.) He also told me not to talk to others about it because it might be ‘frowned upon.’

When I first started having questions about whether what Pdoc was doing was ethical or accepted, Pdoc and I were still in that relationship...and I didn’t know who to ask. I didn’t want to ask my family, I doubted they would know any more than I did. I didn’t want to ask my family doctor or one of Pdoc’s colleagues because I didn’t know if they would back each other up, whether they could be objective or whether the entire situation would be taken out of my hands in case it was ‘bad.’

It didn’t occur to me that it was a felony in that state...
(and *not* against the law in some other states).


I wanted to ask someone out of Pdoc’s sphere of influence.

First, I researched what I could in our library (this was before we all had computers) and I found the phone number of a PHD who had written about this subject. He practiced two thousand miles away. I thought that might be far enough away so, I called him. We talked a bit about therapist exploitation without me admitting that it might be happening to me. I wouldn’t even give him my name. It’s surprising he took my phone call.

He was helpful and gave me some names of therapists who knew about the subject in my state and in an almost neighboring city. They were far away enough for me.

Can anyone else relate to this? Did you have as much worry or concerns deciding who you would tell what was going on? I mean, when you feel a therapist may not be acting correctly with you....who do you trust to ask...another therapist?

I guess I’m looking for some validation that this isn’t an easy situation to be in.
Or, if it was easy for you, I would be interested in hearing about that.

It’s not like you can easily find a support group or even a crisis line with people who might understand your issues. Or is it?

Nowadays we have computers and message boards- all with their own sets of privacy issues but probably easier than my experiences.

I contacted TELL..(therapist exploitation link line)..they were/are amazing....I have also spoken with therapists....pm me if you like.

Possible trigger:

I had something happen to me in the late 90's. I went to this doctor for a physical. I hadnt had one in years and I was still in my 20's and naive. During the exam he decided to fondle my breasts. It wasn't a breast exam because he wasn't my GYN and he did it from behind me. I was like numb, talk about triggered! I was shocked and I was like a deer in headlights. I didn't say anything I just sat on the exam table stunned. I left and blamed myself because I hadn't said anything. I am a very friendly person who is not afraid of talking to new people but this doctor was the "authority" and it had never happened before. I was ashamed when I went home. About 6 months later I decided to have a consult with a lawyer about it. I told him what happened and he proceeded to tell me that if I went through with it my name would be published. He asked me if I had ever been promiscuous. He asked me if I had mental health problems and told me all this would be brought up if it went to trial. My name would be smeared. I couldn't believe it. There was no MeToo movement where people actually believed you. In fact I am not sure the lawyer believed me. He seemed like he wasnt really considering taking the case and didnt tell me to call the police.

I was so devastated. Its terrible when no one believes you. I didnt tell my husband or even my mother! I have a history of abuse and I felt like a child all over again. Here's the thing: I have never told a single person about it. THIS is the very first time I have spoken of it. Thank you for this topic I hope I have the strength to let it go.....

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Originally Posted by precaryous I’m putting this in the ‘romantic’ folder, but none of my posts about this are about ‘romance.’ When you first suspected you might have been exploited by a doctor or mental health professional, was it hard for you to decide who you would ask about it? Was it hard to trust and ask the other doctors or mental health professionals around you? Or, maybe this was just my issue? Pdoc told me what we were doing (sexual intimacies) was therapeutic for me. (For reals, that’s what he said.) He also told me not to talk to others about it because it might be ‘frowned upon.’ When I first started having questions about whether what Pdoc was doing was ethical or accepted, Pdoc and I were still in that relationship...and I didn’t know who to ask. I didn’t want to ask my family, I doubted they would know any more than I did. I didn’t want to ask my family doctor or one of Pdoc’s colleagues because I didn’t know if they would back each other up, whether they could be objective or whether the entire situation would be taken out of my hands in case it was ‘bad.’ It didn’t occur to me that it was a felony in that state... (and *not* against the law in some other states). I wanted to ask someone out of Pdoc’s sphere of influence. First, I researched what I could in our library (this was before we all had computers) and I found the phone number of a PHD who had written about this subject. He practiced two thousand miles away. I thought that might be far enough away so, I called him. We talked a bit about therapist exploitation without me admitting that it might be happening to me. I wouldn’t even give him my name. It’s surprising he took my phone call. He was helpful and gave me some names of therapists who knew about the subject in my state and in an almost neighboring city. They were far away enough for me. Can anyone else relate to this? Did you have as much worry or concerns deciding who you would tell what was going on? I mean, when you feel a therapist may not be acting correctly with you....who do you trust to ask...another therapist? I guess I’m looking for some validation that this isn’t an easy situation to be in. Or, if it was easy for you, I would be interested in hearing about that. It’s not like you can easily find a support group or even a crisis line with people who might understand your issues. Or is it? Nowadays we have computers and message boards- all with their own sets of privacy issues but probably easier than my experiences.

Thanks for this. I’m so sorry you were hurt and exploited.

But how did you find T.E.L.L. at first? Did you look the topic up online?

You also spoke to therapists- did you have a difficult time deciding who to trust? Were you afraid to give the abusers name? Were you afraid the matter would be taken out of your hands?

We don’t need to pm, the abuse in my instance happened years ago. T.E.L.L didn’t exist way back then and people weren’t readily online at that time.
I’ve already reported it and went through criminal, civil and licensing board cases about it. I’m mostly wanting to process (for me) how difficult it was to know who to trust and know who to tell. I wondered if anyone else had similar difficulties or not.

Thank you so much for sharing you experiences here. I’m sorry that doctor acted unprofessionally.

I don’t have a lot of experience with lawyers but your meeting with the lawyer sounds like it might have been almost as traumatic as the initial abuse. My complaints went through civil and medical board cases. It was also reported to the police and the Deputy Attorney General considered filing criminal charges since three of us victims came forward- but he decided not to prosecute.

I went through all that and, yes, some authorities did read about what happened to me and knew my name, medical and mental health history but I don’t recall my name ever being published. I read the medical licensing board accusation, findings and decision and they only used my intitials. Maybe the laws are different where you live. Maybe it would be different if it went to trial but I was told most cases like this are settled long before they go to trial.

What I want you to know if your lawyer didn’t mention it is I learned that cases are won more by what you can prove vs. the truth of what happened.

It is terrible when no one believes you. Lawyers can be jerks, too. I had a male lawyer tell me in my own case, “Well, I hope at least you had good sex.” He was a freakin’ lawyer on *my* team and he had the nerve to say that to me! My lead lawyer was a woman and she was livid when I told her about it. She got off the phone right away and I assume she chewed him out.

I’m sorry you were treated that way and I ‘get’ that it’s difficult to tell people about it. First, it can be extremely embarrassing to talk about - to anyone- especially family. People may judge or try to shame you. People might even defend the doctor or therapist. We just can’t depend on how people will react to information like that. But we need and deserve to be believed. We deserve to be heard. Thank you for sharing your story.

Oh gosh, yes, absolutely. It was so hard to decide who to talk to.

Mostly, it was because I knew what someone would say. In the first case when the abuse was "only" emotional, no formal lines were crossed, I knew that anyone I would talk to would just tell me to get the heck out of there and to find a new therapist. As many therapy clients know, this is easier said than done. When I was finally "terminated" I contacted APA of which my T was a member and they just told me to file a compliant with the board if I felt his behavior was improper. I didn't do it because I didn't have any evidence of what went on, and, even at that time, with all my ignorance, I knew that even if I had evidence, most likely no one would find him guilty of anything. That was back in 2003. I don't know if TELL existed at that time and it didn't occur to me back then to do an online search. I wouldn't even know which search words to use because the terms like "therapy abuse", "unethical therapist" weren't even on my mind at that time.

The second time when the formal ethics were breached it was even more difficult to decide who to talk to. I tried to see several therapists about this. I could see clearly that they were all uncomfortable with my situation and, specifically, with the fact that I was seeing my T outside of the office and that they had no interest in helping me work through it.

At some point, my ex-T and I went to a "couple's counseling" with one guy from the psychoanlytic center I got my training from. I wish I'd never gone to that meeting. The guy interpreted the situation by giving an analogy of a brother and a sister (me being a "sister" and my ex-T a "brother") where the "sister" loves the "brother" so much that it's almost incestuous. Then the "brother" gets engaged and later married and the "sister" is left to accept the reality. I could not believe what I was hearing. I could only stare at that psycho thinking WTF??!!! WTF WAS THAT ABOUT?! This was so crazy that I didn't even want to analyze what he was trying to convey.

Then there was another "couple's counselor" who immediately made me a focus of "investigation". He was not interested in understanding why my T did what he did, let alone condemning his actions. What he wanted to get to was the "source" of my anger towards my T. My T's behavior apparently was not a problem, but my anger about it was!

But I had a couple of good experiences, very brief though.

The last "couple's counselor" was a woman, who, at some point, worked with me and my husband in couples therapy. She put the blame right where it belonged immediately. My T sat their embarrassed, with the red face, which, I admit, I enjoyed watching.

Then there was a very old guy, a psychoanalyst from the same center, whom I saw individually. That meeting was very empowering for me. He didn't, actually, put much emphasis on my T's behavior though he clearly acknowledged that the T's behavior was unethical. But, instead of spending much time validating my anger, he simply said that I could decide if I want to keep the relationship with him going or not. Such simple observation opened my eyes to the reality that I do have the power to make a choice here, that that power is in my hands and I could use it if I want to. That snapped me out of the victim mentality in an instant and it felt very liberating.

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Originally Posted by precaryous Thank you so much for sharing you experiences here. I’m sorry that doctor acted unprofessionally. I don’t have a lot of experience with lawyers but your meeting with the lawyer sounds like it might have been almost as traumatic as the initial abuse. My complaints went through civil and medical board cases. It was also reported to the police and the Deputy Attorney General considered filing criminal charges since three of us victims came forward- but he decided not to prosecute.

Yes, it was a slap in the face, like throwing cold water on me. I cant believe I shared it here- my husband doesnt even know!

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I went through all that and, yes, some authorities did read about what happened to me and knew my name, medical and mental health history but I don’t recall my name ever being published. I read the medical licensing board accusation, findings and decision and they only used my intitials. Maybe the laws are different where you live. Maybe it would be different if it went to trial but I was told most cases like this are settled long before they go to trial.

This happened in the late 90's before they had the law that protects victims and when the doctors/lawyers/investors were all in the same good ole' boys club. I imagine it would be different now.

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What I want you to know if your lawyer didn’t mention it is I learned that cases are won more by what you can prove vs. the truth of what happened.

Yes this is true. Many times even a district attorney for the state wont prosecute if they do not think they will win a conviction. Attorneys like to win.

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I’m sorry you were treated that way and I ‘get’ that it’s difficult to tell people about it. First, it can be extremely embarrassing to talk about - to anyone- especially family. People may judge or try to shame you. People might even defend the doctor or therapist. We just can’t depend on how people will react to information like that. But we need and deserve to be believed. We deserve to be heard. Thank you for sharing your story.

Thanks.

Hugs to all of you who have endured harm from a doctor. I too was molested by a hand surgeon when i was 4 years old. I remember what happened to me very clear after all these years he is still practising in another province. No one believed me not even my parents. Today i get horrible panic attacks if i have to go to my gp or any doctor. Going to the dentist is horrible still.

I knew its against ethics. I could say he crossed the line when I was inpatient and after few months we became lovers. Fact that it was against ethics didn't bother me though he was little bit paranoid. Thing that hurt me was that he was married and I was only a lover.
His wife found out he cheats on her and he decided to save his marriage and left me. But he still was my doc but we didn't have sessions, he simply continued prescribe medication for me and listened to me when I was so broken because he left me and then tried to stop me from killing myself.

I think I could never go inpatient again because it will remind me of us and make everything worse.
But I have very nice T now and I told her about it, its one of most discussed topics with her.

Lunatic soul:
Was it difficult for you to find a new therapist? Was it difficult to trust her and tell her about what happened with the male psychiatrist?

I had trouble finding and trusting a new therapist. I still have trouble trusting her.

My experiences were similar to what you describe here:

The psychiatrist tried to continue ‘therapy’ after he stopped the intimacies, too. But we could never return to the topics that brought me to therapy again. Therapy became about (mostly me) talking about the ‘relationship.’

It kills me he was paid by me and my insurances for all of these visits.
It kills me that he could have done *nothing* therapy-wise and that would have been tons better than what he elected to do.

He didn’t have to cure me. He could have done nothing. He could have just not HURT me.
Now I still have the issues that brought me to therapy plus the new traumas he gave me.

It was difficult to trust T because when I was inpatient all docs and Ts talked to each other about patients, I didn't trust anyone there.
When I started to see my current T I was afraid she could know any of hospitals workers and talk to them, I also was afraid that she could find out who he is and report him but she said that it's against her ethics to do it.

I have never paid my doc, it's miserable for man to ask money for session which is date

I can't say that my relationship with him influenced anything about therapy to others. I don't regret that I was his lover, it hurts that it's over.

I hope this is the right place to mention this.

Sometimes if a previously upstanding older citizen starts talking dirty, or worse, it could be an early sign of dementia. Disinhibition, Inappropriate Sexual Behavior ISB, quite common in geriatric patients, and unfortunately might appear when someone still functions in a professional context. I’m throwing this in the mix in case you encounter it like I did. It’s still jarring and creepy no matter the cause.

Treatment of Inappropriate Sexual Behavior in Dementia | SpringerLink

Thank you for mentioning this.

This is a very important thing to keep in mind indeed. Dementia sufferers often are not cognizant of when the illness starts creeping on them. It is, usually, more obvious to outsiders. My both parents suffered from dementia, which manifested more heavily in my mom, so I've seen how unaware people with this condition may be.

When this is the case, people who are close to the person-family, friends, colleagues should have a conversation with them as soon as they see the signs of illness. The sooner it happens, the greater the chance is that the person would be able to be receptive to the feedback and to take some protective measures for the future that would prevent potential harm they could inflict on others and on themselves if their mental health continues to deteriorate.

In psychotherapy, for better or for worse, age is not considered a limitation but rather an asset, as the old age is often associated with wisdom. Because of that and because the work is not physically or intellectually demanding, many therapists are old, and, I mean, REALLY old. And, since they often practice in isolation, oftentimes, there aren't many people around who could let them know that they are starting to lose it..

In the ethical code it says that it is ethical responsibility of each professional to have an honest and compassionate conversation with a colleague, who is becoming or has become incapacitated and unfit to practice. Unfortunately, ethics don't mandate professionals to report such colleagues in case if they are not receptive to the feedback and not willing to address their condition.

That seems to have happened to another Pdoc I saw prior to the exploitation. He was always eccentric. Several years after I saw him he was arrested for over-prescribing and selling prescriptions. He was never like that when I knew him (that I know).

His family also noticed other odd behaviors, hypersexuality, detachment, odd decisions, arriving at a formal dinner dressed but without a shirt..but they didn’t connect it to any type of dementia at the time. At least, not early enough.

The last I heard, he was serving a ten year sentence in federal prison:

A Criminal Mind — The California Sunday Magazine

I'd lived with therapist/lover/partner/abuser ( you get the idea) for a few years when she decided I was having trouble with depression again. She referred me to the therapist that she had sent many of her old clients to after she "retired". In retrospect, a large part of why she wanted me to see a therapist was because I hadn't gotten a formal divorce from the father of my children. She wanted me to be divorced, and was hoping there was some money involved. She prepped me on how to avoid disclosing who I was living with, even to the point of omitting pronouns. I was unbelievably good at the secret keeping - the new therapist told me later she didn't even suspect. I'm thinking now that exploitative therapist created a great scenario for me, because once I revealed the secret the new therapist felt betrayed as well. Watching her going through processing steps was very validating. This totally makes my experience with subsequent therapists very different than that of others here. I've seen two other therapists since because I've moved. Both times I disclosed a lot to potential therapists, watching for their reactions and listening for certain keywords like betrayal of trust, asking if I had reported etc. I also think there is an element of lucking into the right people.

Can you explain a bit more about your experiences with subsequent therapists? If I’m reading correctly, you have trust issues with them? Are you afraid they won’t ‘get it?’ or afraid they will make you report?

It’s not unusual to have trust issues of subsequent therapists after exploitation no matter whether the exploitation was emotional, sexual, financial..

I had a particular difficult time trusting the two subsequent therapists. I don’t think I trust my current T 100%.

The first was really more of a simultaneous - I saw her for two years while I was living with ex T. Who said I should trust the new therapist. So of course I did.

I think with the next therapist, and the current one, I screened them well, but was also prepared to back out. I reported with the 2nd. The first would have liked me to.

I think what I had to learn to trust was my ability to protect myself.

I hear that!

I continue to feel /fear making bad decisions for myself.

Does anyone have any articles on the types of clients that therapists tend to target for this most often (understanding of course that it can happen to anyone but In curious). Obv they feel like they have to be very careful. Pedophile priests target the lonely kids with bad homes or previous abuse and it feels maybe similar here?

What is Therapist Abuse? | Odenton, MD Patch