It has come to my attention

sky dancer · 12:17 AM

that discussing spirituality is restricted at this forum. I want to say that for me, it makes using this site as a resource limited.

Some of what hurt me as a child is related to my experiences growing up as a Catholic. Now that I am Buddhist, and going through healing from PTSD, these past issues from Catholicism affect my ability to use my Buddhist resources and community temporarily.

I just wanted to mention this because I had a post edited for content when I put in a wishing prayer that is quite expansive for the well being of all others.

That I mentioned the source as a prayer by Shantideva, and said by HH the Dalai Lama daily seemed to be problematic for the forum.

I also find prayers by St Francis of Assisi and Hindu prayers and all other manner of spiritual resources--especially when shared by someone who has faith in them inspiring.

I'm just sharing this. Take it for what it's worth. It's just a comment about what I see as a potential missed opportunity. Anyone who has survived a religious cult will have spirtual trauma too. It's just another area--out of traditional psychotherapy perhaps--but increasingly important in mind-body-spirit and psyche holistic healing.

I work with a psychologist who does EMDR and he is open to using the images that arise from my faith traditon as a source of healing.

Thanks for hearing me out. I'm sorry but I cannot post in this forum any longer. I am on a path to wholeness and that includes the truth of my being, and what gives me strength.

As long as people can say God and Holy Spirit I don't know why I can say the word Buddha or credit the author of a prayer. None of this was intended as proselytizing.

sky

Rhapsody · Mar 06, 2009 at 12:08 AM

Please know that your words have been heard and that you are not the first member to bring up this very good point......

sky dancer · Mar 06, 2009 at 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhapsody

Please know that your words have been heard and that you are not the first member to bring up this very good point......

Thanks Rhapsody. I'm sad about this. This is otherwise a good forum, but I'm on a path to wholeness and I won't let anything stand in my way.

It's too bad, because I think I have something to offer, as a woman who has spent over 25 years meditating and working as a social worker and counselor and who is taking that level of awareness into my healing from PTSD.

Taonuviel · Mar 06, 2009 at 12:35 AM

have you looked into the social groups here? they allow for discussions that don't fit so well elsewhere... you might find All Faiths a good place for what you want to talk about. and you may like some of the other groups, too. you can find them under My Profile, Social Groups.

Rapunzel · 02:12 AM

You are right. Spirituality is an essential part of healing, and is a very appropriate topic to share with others who are healing. The spirituality forum here is not a real spirituality forum. That was taken away from us some time ago, and many of us were wounded (again) when that happened. There is a vocal minority who have an agenda to silence expressions of religion and true spirituality. That minority won, and the rest of us suffer for it.

However, there are social groups, and forums that you can only access and view if you join the groups. You will find others there who have given up finding a place in this non-spirituality forum, and some who still try to make the best of this one too. The prayers and beliefs that you want to share would be welcome there, if you would like to join us.

I'm sorry that we aren't more visible. It became too painful for me to maintain a presence here, so I retreated, but the group that I started accepts all who want to share and talk openly about spirituality and learn from others who also want to share. You are welcome, as is anyone else who accepts those terms. I don't know if the powers that be here mention that there are options available, like the social groups, and blogs, or if we are a secret that they would rather hide. I have mixed feelings. I want anyone who needs us and wants to be a part of this to be able to find us, but I also don't want to be attacked anymore by those who want us not to exist.

We're there. To find us, go to your own profile (click your own screen name) and click the section that says "Social Groups." (or is it "Group Memberships?") The group that I started is called "All Faiths." There are also groups that are more specific to particular religions. Mine is essentially what I thought that this forum was created for when it was originally created. A place for everyone to share beliefs and spiritual support. It's not supposed to be a secret, so if there are others who want to be a part of it, feel free to pass it along.

Locust · Mar 06, 2009 at 03:25 AM

Sky_dancer,

I respect your beliefs. I don't think discussing spirituality is so much restricted as discussing religious things. Of course, some people consider Buddhism a spiritual path, but others see it as a religion. But I do see your point, that to simply credit the author of a piece, seems to be nothing more than good manners.

I understand that religion and spirituality can be important to MI for multiple reasons. 1. Sometimes, they cause pain, 2. Sometimes they help healing, and 3. Sometimes certain mental illnesses revolve around religion a lot, such as delusions, paranoia, and OCD. In fact, I don't know how it is possible to avoid it when discussing the third. But anywho....

Sadly, not everyone is so open to accepting others and their beliefs. I think religion is seen as something that can divide people, and that is prob. why it is restricted. But at the same time, a person's preference in mates is also something that divides people. Many things divide and start fights. I don't know if this one is any worse. I understand the reasons they think it needs to be restricted somewhat, but perhaps it is restricted more than some of us would like. I hope you will stay here, though. You can post about your beliefs in All Faiths. Also, to some degree in the Spirituality forum.

Hunny · Mar 06, 2009 at 09:55 PM

((((((((( sky dancer )))))))))

Perhaps, you are meant to stay then...I hope you can find it within youself to 'be free' to stay.

The prayer was most lovely. My interpretation was mine anyway, so I didn't even know it was from one faith or another. Didn't matter one bit.

What mattered and matters to me is that I get to heal using all of myself, including my spiritual self.

Take care

Safron · Mar 07, 2009 at 12:20 AM

I have been on boards that restrict religious discussion but not spiritual discussion. I’m surprised that spirituality is restricted because we are all on a personal and spiritual journey. Personal and spiritual growth has nothing to do with religion. Or have I misunderstood the threads main topic?

Mar 07, 2009 at 12:25 AM

Posts of a spiritual nature are allowed.

Posts referring to specific religeons are unfortunately not.

The reason for this is because it is such a sensitive issue, that it simply most often leads to arguments and fighting. The same thing goes for politics. We are asked to keep these to a minimum.

Under the heading of the Spiritual Forum, we see the following:
This Sanctuary is a place for people of all spiritual beliefs and faiths to offer support and compassion to each other in the form of prayers, meditation, and expressions of spirituality. This forum is for support, not religious debate.

Unfortunately in the past when we had this forum open to religeous discussion, it often became negative and led to many bad feelings on the part of multiple members.

DocJohn has this to say:

We're going to move forward with a new plan for this forum, for better or worse, because the current state of affairs is simply untenable. We have lost members over hurt and upset caused by this forum and by some members' focus on specific religious doctrine and dogma over the more general spirituality we've always intended here.

Some members have chosen to use this forum as a place to express their point of view, sometimes trying to drown out others'. Other members see this as a soap box to evangelize.

We need to go back to the original mandate of the forum -- that it is about spirituality and not specific religions. Discussion -- even positive discussion -- of specific religions or religious doctrine will not be allowed going forward. It is the specific religious talk that seems to cause the most trouble.

For members who cannot or will not stick to discussions of spirituality, after a warning, and if the member continues, they will be placed into a "no access" to this forum group. They will still be able to access all other forums here, but just not this one.

If, after a few weeks with the renewed emphasis of this forum, we still see too many members struggling to keep topics to spirituality and not specific religions or religious doctrine, we will move this forum to a "Requests for Prayer and Thoughts" format instead, and do away with a spirituality discussion forum altogether.

I'm sorry it has come to this, but there has be a change here in the interests of the entire community.

DocJohn

Originally posted here

I hope that we can all understand why this change was made, and move forward with the new forum ideals.

sky dancer · Mar 07, 2009 at 10:00 AM

I'm ready to quit if I must. I'm on a path to wholeness. That includes being who I am fully.

I don't understand why saying I was raised a Catholic and currently practice Buddhism is forbidden.

It makes no sense to me. My Buddhist path since 1982 has been the source of most of my world views, and the most complementary skill building for mental health I've had. Research clearly indicates that meditation alters the brain.

Why would that be an unacceptable topic in a psych forum?

Why is the word God and Holy Spirit allowed but Buddha or Allah is not?

I'd like to stay because this website has resources that I can benefit from and I think I can benefit from others--but even asking questions about this policy seems to be threatening to the administration and moderators.

Please don't make psych central a 'cult' by censoring topics that are important to healing. Please allow discussion of policy.

Even in the social services programs I worked in--funded by government money--faith based resources were in our care plans.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rainbowzz

Posts of a spiritual nature are allowed.

Posts referring to specific religeons are unfortunately not.

The reason for this is because it is such a sensitive issue, that it simply most often leads to arguments and fighting. The same thing goes for politics. We are asked to keep these to a minimum.

Under the heading of the Spiritual Forum, we see the following:
This Sanctuary is a place for people of all spiritual beliefs and faiths to offer support and compassion to each other in the form of prayers, meditation, and expressions of spirituality. This forum is for support, not religious debate.

Unfortunately in the past when we had this forum open to religeous discussion, it often became negative and led to many bad feelings on the part of multiple members.

DocJohn has this to say:

We're going to move forward with a new plan for this forum, for better or worse, because the current state of affairs is simply untenable. We have lost members over hurt and upset caused by this forum and by some members' focus on specific religious doctrine and dogma over the more general spirituality we've always intended here.

Some members have chosen to use this forum as a place to express their point of view, sometimes trying to drown out others'. Other members see this as a soap box to evangelize.

We need to go back to the original mandate of the forum -- that it is about spirituality and not specific religions. Discussion -- even positive discussion -- of specific religions or religious doctrine will not be allowed going forward. It is the specific religious talk that seems to cause the most trouble.

For members who cannot or will not stick to discussions of spirituality, after a warning, and if the member continues, they will be placed into a "no access" to this forum group. They will still be able to access all other forums here, but just not this one.

If, after a few weeks with the renewed emphasis of this forum, we still see too many members struggling to keep topics to spirituality and not specific religions or religious doctrine, we will move this forum to a "Requests for Prayer and Thoughts" format instead, and do away with a spirituality discussion forum altogether.

I'm sorry it has come to this, but there has be a change here in the interests of the entire community.

DocJohn

Originally posted here

I hope that we can all understand why this change was made, and move forward with the new forum ideals.

scoobywho · Mar 07, 2009 at 10:58 AM

I'm with you as well sky dancer, I will support you all the way. Being slightly discriminated against and feeling afraid to speak of the philosophy that could help so many.
You are in my prayers on this one.
Warm regards scoobywho.

sky dancer · Mar 07, 2009 at 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scoobywho

I'm with you as well sky dancer, I will support you all the way. Being slightly discriminated against and feeling afraid to speak of the philosophy that could help so many.
You are in my prayers on this one.
Warm regards scoobywho.

Out of respect for the TOS, and my own interest in wholeness, I started a new social group called Seekers of Truth.

Any and all folks who want to share their past or present spiritual experiences or resources are welcome to participate.

I'm hoping the rules are relaxed enough there that the words; buddha, goddess, allah, g-d, pagan, witch, shiva, shakti, etc etc are ok to be said there.

I'm working through some issues in the present from past trauma with my church of origin which affects my current spiritual practices and community and there appears to be no other place to discuss that openly here.

I'm hoping DrJohn and the admin crew find it within their hearts and TOS to allow us to discuss real issues of concern to us that include how we are spiritually as well as physically and psychologically and socially recovering from past trauma and present psych issues.

bluenarciss · 11:40 AM

I don't see why this seems to be such a big thing to avoid any special referring to organized religions.

I very much share the sight of the board administration that this should stay a place for sharing personal thoughts and feelings, but not a place for being on any mission of convincing others of whatever it may be.

The reason given is absolutely understandable: It will sooner or later disturb this place that is designed to be a peaceful retreat and refuge.

Whoever thinks he is on his right way finally - congratulations. But a solution that works for one may be a complete failure for the next one. Or at least misleading.

Spirituality is a very personal and individual matter. And it should remain so. The TOS here, as I see them, guarantee exactly that. I can neither see fault nor any harm in that.

sky dancer · Mar 07, 2009 at 11:49 AM

What I think we all share who have a form of personal spirituality is some kind of open spacious presence. It is direct experience. What we label that experience is nominal. It is not the healing presence in the now. It is just a label, a convenience.

I understand that some forms of organized spirituality have 'missions' involving proselytizing and that comparing paths can lead to hurt feelings, and comparisons and debates.

What I've found, is that it doesn't matter to me the source of a person's spirituality--but it does seem silly to me, to not be able to use a term-like buddha--but it's ok to use the term God and Holy Spirit.

One of the most beautiful chants I ever heard was in an ancient indian language and it was the thousand names of God.

I'm just interested in hearing about and sharing whatever is uplifting to myself and others.

Mar 07, 2009 at 12:11 PM

The only reason why spirituality is restricted because back in the day when it was more open people started getting into arguments because both people believed that they and nobody else was right

Mar 07, 2009 at 12:54 PM

sky dancer,

It might help you to understand why the rules are so strict if you go back and read some of the locked threads in the Spirituality Forum.

Mar 07, 2009 at 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluenarciss

I don't see why this seems to be such a big thing to avoid any special referring to organized religions.

I very much share the sight of the board administration that this should stay a place for sharing personal thoughts and feelings, but not a place for being on any mission of convincing others of whatever it may be.

The reason given is absolutely understandable: It will sooner or later disturb this place that is designed to be a peaceful retreat and refuge.

Whoever thinks he is on his right way finally - congratulations. But a solution that works for one may be a complete failure for the next one. Or at least misleading.

Spirituality is a very personal and individual matter. And it should remain so. The TOS here, as I see them, guarantee exactly that. I can neither see fault nor any harm in that.

Couldnt of put it better myself, if you feel you are missing out why not go to another site for your 'religion' then no one is made to feel upset. Religion causes rows that is a fact and this is a supports site also a fact.

DocJohn · Mar 07, 2009 at 03:00 PM

And let me be very clear here -- spirituality discussions are most definitely allowed on the Spirituality forum.

Religious discussions are not allowed because when we allowed them, many of the moderators and admins spent a great deal of time trying to smooth over the hurt that was caused by some people who couldn't let others be with their own religious beliefs and felt they had to try and "convert" everyone to their belief systems. Sadly, not all religions are compatible with one another (especially when they suggest that non-believers in their particular religion need to be "converted" or otherwise suffer).

Being that we're primarily a mental health support site -- not a spiritual or religious support site -- we changed the guidelines to emphasize the spirituality component and de-emphasize the religious component. That doesn't mean you can't say, "Oh, I was raised as a Catholic but am now a Buddhist." It just means you can't have in-depth discussions about the pros and cons of the two religions.

As others have pointed out, however, we do have social groups that do not fall under this restriction, and so we have a few religiously-oriented social groups that anyone is welcomed to join and discuss religion until your heart's content. But we will not moderate any interpersonal differences that arise from such discussions, so you're on your own if you find someone who vehemently disagrees with your own religious beliefs.

DocJohn

PS - For the record, I've been accused of being a heathen, atheist, Christian-lover, satanist, and worse throughout the years because of the various religious arguments that have gone on here. I find it amusing that no matter what I say or do in this regard, nothing seems to be good enough or sufficient for some members here. Luckily, I've also received a lot of positive feedback for our policies in this regard, so I guess it all evens out in the end.

bluenarciss · Mar 08, 2009 at 01:57 AM

I feel the need to explain my statement above by adding a very personal report. Here it is:

I have been a seeker. And I am still looking for help and relief in order to feel better, which might mean that I am still in need for support in what I would call a healing process.

In the last years I made progress, and now I feel a lot better than before. And I want to share not only my downs, setbacks, flaws and myseries, but also my small successes, improvements, step-aheads and ups.

The most important insight I had during this phase of recovery (or healing, although this is not completed and may never be) is this:

Spiritual support was one of the sources on the helpful side. I consciously avoided anything that was or could have been mentally disturbing or harmful. Instead I tried to preoccupy myself mostly with strengthening and encouraging things.

But going for good influences and avoiding bad influences and environments is only one step, a good first step I would say.

More important and finally most effective (to me) was what I would stress out as the decisive second step: To let the healthy part within oneself grow.

Spirituality given from others, coming in from outside, only helped me when I "responded". To me, the search for balance, peace and harmony in the teachings and scriptures of others, finally proved nothing else than a search for a way to my own inner sources and resources.

I thought I was looking for guidance. What I found instead was that there is no guidance necessary, because all I need is already there, and always has been, like a kind of a inner sanctum or a inner core that never was hurt or spoiled.

To all those who seek I want to say just this: don't forget to look deeply into yourself. That what resonates within might be what you are looking for.

I knew that my search was successful when I could stop desperately looking for external wisdom. So there is no more need to follow other voices. I admit, this has always been my aim, because I appreciate my personal freedom very much. Seeking is not the whole thing and not the only point. Finding is very important, too. That's all.

That is what I wanted to point out in order to make my point of view given in my posting above a bit more understandable. And maybe this is a little help for all those who are still in phase one (search), on the way to phase two (having found).

Best wishes,
bluenarciss

sky dancer · Mar 08, 2009 at 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tishie

Couldnt of put it better myself, if you feel you are missing out why not go to another site for your 'religion' then no one is made to feel upset. Religion causes rows that is a fact and this is a supports site also a fact.

I don't need this site for my 'religion'. I do have issues I am working through that involves my 'religious roots' and how my PTSD interferes with and affects my connection to my spiritual community now.

This is what I'd like to be able to discuss here, without having to worry about anyone thinking I want to 'debate religion'.

There are cultures within spiritual communties, and if I am not free to discuss how mine worked in the past and works now in the present, then I have one less resource for exploring something that is key to my healing.

I doubt I'm alone in this.

I have started a Seekers of Truth support group and everyone is invited. I'm hoping the rules are relaxed enough in that part of the forum that I and others can discuss topics related to our healing that touch on our past and present experiences, and either help or harm.

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Rhapsody Wise Elder Member Since Jan 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 9,946 18 1 hugs given	Mar 06, 2009 at 12:08 AM #2 Please know that your words have been heard and that you are not the first member to bring up this very good point......

Taonuviel Poohbah Member Since May 2004 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,455 20 15 hugs given	Mar 06, 2009 at 12:35 AM #4 have you looked into the social groups here? they allow for discussions that don't fit so well elsewhere... you might find All Faiths a good place for what you want to talk about. and you may like some of the other groups, too. you can find them under My Profile, Social Groups. __________________ I'm not into South Park, I just thought the generator made cute avis.

Safron Member Member Since Feb 2009 Location: London UK Posts: 217 15	Mar 07, 2009 at 12:20 AM #8 I have been on boards that restrict religious discussion but not spiritual discussion. I’m surprised that spirituality is restricted because we are all on a personal and spiritual journey. Personal and spiritual growth has nothing to do with religion. Or have I misunderstood the threads main topic?

scoobywho Member Member Since Dec 2008 Location: Australila, Melbourne Posts: 48 15	Mar 07, 2009 at 10:58 AM #11 I'm with you as well sky dancer, I will support you all the way. Being slightly discriminated against and feeling afraid to speak of the philosophy that could help so many. You are in my prayers on this one. Warm regards scoobywho. __________________ DON'T WORRY BE HAPPY

Anonymous29368 Guest Posts: n/a	Mar 07, 2009 at 12:11 PM #15 The only reason why spirituality is restricted because back in the day when it was more open people started getting into arguments because both people believed that they and nobody else was right

Orange_Blossom Guest Posts: n/a	Mar 07, 2009 at 12:54 PM #16 sky dancer, It might help you to understand why the rules are so strict if you go back and read some of the locked threads in the Spirituality Forum.