RE: suicidal posts

Nothing personal or disrespectful here but I don't know what words to substitute for suicidal. Sometimes I am dense so please forgive my ignorance.

I have tried to seek help when I have felt suicidal but for me it was not simple nor effective.

An example - in 1989 I had postpartum depression and called my gyn/ob doc and told him I was severely depressed. His response - drink a beer. Seriously, that is the advice he gave me. Two days after I called him I attempted suicide but it failed.

In 2007 I was very manic for a few days and then within several hours my mood went from flying high to rock bottom. I called my psychiatrist's office and then went to his office to wait until he could work me in. After waiting awhile his office worker told me to go home and he would call me later that evening. He never called. The next day I returned to his office and they said he would not be in the office that day. I felt abandoned. So I bought some orange juice and vodka and started drinking which was a part of my suicide plan. I was then in progress toward my suicide since I mattered to nobody. I decided to see if my therapist was in the office since her office was en route to my suicide destination and if she was not there then that would just be one more sign that I should end it all. But she was in and she sent me to an emergency dept nearby and I was admitted.

Although I was a member of PC I knew I could not post about my intent. I felt totally alone and my mood was grim. Personally I think if somebody is that far down they need support anywhere they can find it. I know others disagree and that is fine but I wish PC could be part of my support network if I am suicidal again. Surely I could find better advice here than a doc telling me to drink a beer.

These are my thoughts and I respect that others here will disagree with me.

Just a thought, but I know there are self-help forums out there for those who are suicidal, who DO allow discussion. I remember one specifically but do not remember the name of it. You might google for something like that though.

Just because we cannot allow it here doesn't make it inherently "wrong". Its just that we are not set up to take care of something like that in these parts.

www.suicideforum.com is good.
& www.recoveryourlife.com/forum too.

Thanks all for your thoughtful comments and questions about suicide and related topics. These are not things we've taken lightly, but it is primarily a question of helping keep community members safe -- both those who are considering suicide and everyone else who may be triggered by specific method talk. Being online in a good support group can be of great help to someone who is suicidal, which we recognize. And as long as the talk is just about the general thoughts and such that a person is experiencing about suicide, that's fine.

We draw the line in posts that say they are going to die tonight, or tomorrow, or whatever, and this is how. That's not what we're setup here to do or to help with. Throughout the world, there are suicidal helplines (click the button on our homepage to find one near you), and we recommend members make use of these free resources. Online there are other groups where such discussion is allowed (but we don't vouch for those groups, nor what you may find there).

As for homicidal ideation about wanting to kill one's abuser, I fairly certain we've allowed such discussions, as long as they are fairly limited and well defined, because they fall into the same category about thoughts. Each case is different however. And so while we may allow such discussion about wanting to end the life of one's abuser, we wouldn't allow discussion about someone wanted to end the life of a person for some other reason. We have to balance individual member's needs versus those of the entire community, and so we usually have a discussion about such threads as they arise and make decisions on a case by case basis.

DocJohn

hi docjohn,

thanks for clarifying & explaining your thoughts behind the community guidelines.

in the depression forum there is a reminder saying "no suicidal posts" (or something to that effect) - i was wondering if it might be possible to add a link next to it to this post of yours (or maybe add it to the suicide resources stick you already have there)? it might clarify that suicidal thoughts are ok, but that talk of intent/method is not. and also provide a useful reminder that there are suicide helplines one can contact in crisis also.

just a suggestion .

Hey Tishie - in that situation, please PM an administrator with a copy of the chat (if you don't know how to do that, I can tell you). Please also do tell the person that they MUST call emergency services right away. If they don't choose to do that - here's a good page on our website you can give to them: http://psychcentral.com/helpme.htm

Please do take a look at the "Who's Online" list at that time and see if a moderator/administrator is online and PM them asking them to help. (Even though I've received PMs after I disappeared offline and still appeared "online").

Beyond that you do NOT have to put yourself into a situation you're not comfortable with. You are more than allowed to put another member on "ignore" if you're in that situation. It can be really triggering and upsetting dealing with someone who is suicidal.

We are not equipped, nor trained to deal with someone in that sort of a crisis so please only help out as much as you can.

I had this situation where a guy in chat was talking about killing himself that night. I was trying to be supportive, but got frantic when he signed off with grim words. I actually managed to FIND THE GUY & CALL HIM AT HOME. (I also notified an admin. here at PC). This guy when he answered the phone was quite jovial. I asked for the guy who had posted by name & he said it was him. I expressed my deep concern about what he had been saying & can you believe it, this guy was laughing & having a party! He had just written this stuff & then forgot about it & went on in a happy-go-lucky way.

I was frantic & spent a lot of time worrying until I could locate him.

Those kind of posts definitely shouldn't be here. Talking about thoughts or previous experiences is one thing, but when you are posting like it is imminent is totally irresponsible & scary to those who read it.

Thankfully, he didn't seriously mean what he posted, but I didn't know that! It was awful to go through that experience as my mother did commit suicide & I've had attempts of my own & am working so hard to never do that kind of thing again & I certainly can't ignore a post like that.

((((((trying & caring))))))

i'm so sorry you had to go through such a frightening experience. you did the right thing in notifying admin, and you are such a caring person for finding this person's number to call and check up on him. it touches me so much that we have people on PC who would do that for a stranger they've spoken to over the net.

just a suggestion (should it ever happen again - here or elsewhere on the web, which i sincerely hope it won't) - is that you call the police/emergency services in your area and turn the chat transcripts over to them. they will have the resources to track the poster down, assess them and provide support if it is required.

it is a difficult balance between being someone who is concerned and desperately wants to help, and also knowing that you need to look after yourself. i used to volunteer for a suicide crisis line (phone & online) and this is what we would do (try to talk the person out of those thoughts, but once it became apparent that the threat was immediate - refer on to emergency services who had better and more appropriate services & personnel to deal with an critical situation like that). there was a case recently where someone in america made a report about someone they were concerned about, and it became an international thing - i think they were able to find & help the girl involved in time, but i can't remember the details of which countries were involved or anything.

Would it be helpful to have a forum for survivors of loved ones that have committed suicide? Maybe when we get over the top we could look at the aftermath and rethink??

Personally, I would like to see that on PC being a survivor of a parental suicide. jmo...

My sister killed herself and my parents killed themselves 15 years later. It's been 10 years but it continues to weigh so heavily on my heart and soul.

I an so sorry for your loss. I hope we can keep in touch...it would be so helpful to have someone who's "been there" to talk with. I find that so many others are "fascinated" by the situation that they don't hear my pain.

Ho, ho, ho...happy holidays

~ Melanie

Be the kind of woman who, when your feet hit the floor in the morning, the devil says...
"Oh Crap. She's up!"

May you find peace.

I have tried helping people get over sucidal thoughts and it's taken a hell of a lot out of me.

Trying to find a way to say this that doesn't make me sound like a horrible human being...

Sometimes saying what a suicidal or depressed person wants to hear isn't really 'support'. I see this all the time in the depression forum, where people are having very negative dark thoughts and they seem to get a lot of support for having them. I know it can help to know you're not alone, but IMO when a person is already using the word 'suicide' and openly talking about how it seems like the best course, identifying with and supporting that line of thought does not seem to me to be helpful or responsible--even when it is meant to be. If you call a suicide hotline, for instance, they don't support your suicidal ideation, they let you know that the things that are going to help you are going to feel 'mean' and not be what you want. (I know because I've called.) Likewise hospital staff don't support that orientation. In hospital you learn fast that that kind of talk will keep you in there forever.

So anyway, that's why some of these posts disturb me.

I probably should just stop reading them. Thanks for all the clarification and comments. This discussion has been very helpful.

I agree with what you are saying. When i am like that i want help not understanding

It seems to be a trend lately on PC. I am not saying these people¨s feelings are not genuine, but what good is it rushing into private chatroom declaring you feel suicidal?

It is hard for a non-professional to help stranger when they don't know the story. and maybe the people in the room are not in the best place themselves...

Glory to heroes!

HATEFREE CULTURE

The person can be told we are not professionals. If you are in crisis, call 911. If you would like to talk to someone and/or get help, go to the emergency room at the hospital. If there is no local hospital, to be safe you may want to call 911.

Some recommended resources and hotlines include:

http://www.suicidepreventionlifeline.org/
http://www.suicide.org/
http://www.hopeline.com/
http://www.suicideforum.com/

You may also want to check out Suicide and Crisis

Wow I wish someone would go out of their way for me like that when I've felt that way! (and I mean actually felt that way, not throwing a party and going on self help forums threatening to top myself). I had a break down for 8 months last year where I never talked to anyone or answered my phone, nobody really came running to my aid. What I wouldn't give for someone to do what you did.
What this person did was idiotic and cruel, and takes the help away from people genuinely need it. When one person who tries to help gets tricked, there are a number of people who genuinely needed that help who will now not get it.
Please don't beat yourself up over it, it's okay to be mad at this person and feel fooled, but that doesn't mean you didn't do the right thing that someone who needed it would have been forever thankful for.

As for suicidal posts, I do think it should be allowed. But there should be restrictions with the 'I'm going to kill myself right now' posts. Being someone who has been suicidal, I know full well how a person like that thinks. Support is very lacking these days. You look up suicide on the net and it will usually come up with posts on being punished by God if you do it, or posts from people calling someone and idiot who's looking for attention and telling them to just do it and stop complaining.
If you are in that frame of mind it's very hard to stay focused enough to look for proper help. You want help, then when you get it you don't want it, but you still kind of do, and you want to ask for help but you can't ask for help and you want to die but you don't want to die and every negative thing that has occurred in your life runs through your mind at once and you don't know what you want to do and you wish someone would just appear and make it all better but even if they came you would barely be able to share how you feel so that they can help you because you can't make up your mind and...... You just go nuts with confusion.

Someone who is in a suicidal frame of mind is NOT someone who can think logically. Every living thing has the instinct of survival, our mission as a living thing is to stay alive. It is an instinct programmed into the minds of every living thing from day dot. When someone is in such a mental state that they are literally going against their own instincts of survival, that person is NOT thinking logically or rationally. That person has a different thought process to someone who is not suicidal. They have a completely different thought process to THEMSELVES if they were thinking logically.
And it can be very hard to ask for help. How do you call a friend or relative and say 'I want to die'?
When I get down, and I have been a few times lately, I find it impossible to do anything more than go on Facebook and say 'I need a hug'. I cannot for the life of me ask for help, other than online. And part of that reason is because not many people are willing to go out of their way to help. I know WHY that is, because I've been on that end of the stick too, and it's frustrating as hell to deal with someone who is in that state. But better to go to someone who knows than someone who doesn't because all you ever hear about suicidal people from those who aren't is that they are being selfish. That infuriates me immensely. It is NOT selfish to be suicidal. 99.9% of people who are suicidal do NOT want to die, they are just emotionally exhausted and need things to end- death sometimes seems the only solution to a never ending torture. A lot of people who are suicidal think they deserve it, or they think people are better off without them, or they just want someone to notice them. We all need human interaction and understanding, so sometimes being attention seeking isn't about wanting to be centre of attention, it's about wanting someone to just see you.
But even as someone who has been suicidal and has a family filled with people who are the same, if someone comes to me wanting to die, I wouldn't know the first thing to say to them. There isn't really any right thing to say in that situation. It's scary, exhausting and frustrating to look after someone who's like that.
Don't try to help someone if you genuinely can't, as sad as it is nobody is obliged to look after someone like that. If you can’t, then don’t. But if you can, then do, because for some people this is the only place anybody has to go to. Some people don’t have phones to call a helpline. Some people don’t have friends or family who will rush to them. Some people find it easier to express how they feel impersonally rather than by speaking it directly. Some people have shut everyone out of their lives and can’t exactly call someone for help. Some people are just looking for others who relate. Some people just don’t know. Of course there is then the suicidal curse of nobody answering their phones and suddenly having a life when you so desperately need it.
This is the only place some people have.

do what you can when you can - thats all anyone can do thats all anyone can give

ive been in the situation whee someone said they were going to kill themselves - then signed off after i spent a few hours listening, suggesting and hoping i was helping - each time it happens .. and its happened more than once... i am out of my mind til i speak to them again or in one case ...dont

Most of us here jmo have been to that dark place they are at - its so hard all i want is for them to survive and get help.... pref wihtout being destroyed in the process - this has even happened on facebook to me so its not just here..

i guess we have to practice good self care while helpng if we can...

Another option for when things are going difficultly with a suicidal member is to pm a mod/admin that is online and let them know there is a problem. Even though mod/admin are not trained in suicide prevention, sometimes they can help the individual to reach out IRL and to help take some stress off of a member who is trying hard to assist.

Please remember that PC is not a place of trained professionals. We are all members who have our own issues that we are dealing with as well as those who are so depressed and feeling suicidal. No member should ever have to feel that they are the only link to help for that person. That is way too much of a burden for any member to take on. This is why there are no suicidal posts allowed either. Being an online community, we have no way of getting addresses and phone numbers or calling someone who can help someone IRL. The person who is going through the difficulty has to be willing to reach out IRL for their own safety. And we all hope that those members will do just that.

We have so many wonderful members here who are willing to help when they can. Please remember that first and foremost, each member must take care of themselves to the best of their ability. Self care is the way to go!

So where would it be ok to post when you are feeling suicidal but the door is still open - when you are trying to stay n are looking for help? I know you would need to post with a trigger. But I am not quite sure where to post?
thanks