RE: suicidal posts

May you find peace.

I have tried helping people get over sucidal thoughts and it's taken a hell of a lot out of me.

Trying to find a way to say this that doesn't make me sound like a horrible human being...

Sometimes saying what a suicidal or depressed person wants to hear isn't really 'support'. I see this all the time in the depression forum, where people are having very negative dark thoughts and they seem to get a lot of support for having them. I know it can help to know you're not alone, but IMO when a person is already using the word 'suicide' and openly talking about how it seems like the best course, identifying with and supporting that line of thought does not seem to me to be helpful or responsible--even when it is meant to be. If you call a suicide hotline, for instance, they don't support your suicidal ideation, they let you know that the things that are going to help you are going to feel 'mean' and not be what you want. (I know because I've called.) Likewise hospital staff don't support that orientation. In hospital you learn fast that that kind of talk will keep you in there forever.

So anyway, that's why some of these posts disturb me.

I probably should just stop reading them. Thanks for all the clarification and comments. This discussion has been very helpful.

I agree with what you are saying. When i am like that i want help not understanding

It seems to be a trend lately on PC. I am not saying these people¨s feelings are not genuine, but what good is it rushing into private chatroom declaring you feel suicidal?

It is hard for a non-professional to help stranger when they don't know the story. and maybe the people in the room are not in the best place themselves...

The person can be told we are not professionals. If you are in crisis, call 911. If you would like to talk to someone and/or get help, go to the emergency room at the hospital. If there is no local hospital, to be safe you may want to call 911.

Some recommended resources and hotlines include:

http://www.suicidepreventionlifeline.org/
http://www.suicide.org/
http://www.hopeline.com/
http://www.suicideforum.com/

You may also want to check out Suicide and Crisis

Wow I wish someone would go out of their way for me like that when I've felt that way! (and I mean actually felt that way, not throwing a party and going on self help forums threatening to top myself). I had a break down for 8 months last year where I never talked to anyone or answered my phone, nobody really came running to my aid. What I wouldn't give for someone to do what you did.
What this person did was idiotic and cruel, and takes the help away from people genuinely need it. When one person who tries to help gets tricked, there are a number of people who genuinely needed that help who will now not get it.
Please don't beat yourself up over it, it's okay to be mad at this person and feel fooled, but that doesn't mean you didn't do the right thing that someone who needed it would have been forever thankful for.

As for suicidal posts, I do think it should be allowed. But there should be restrictions with the 'I'm going to kill myself right now' posts. Being someone who has been suicidal, I know full well how a person like that thinks. Support is very lacking these days. You look up suicide on the net and it will usually come up with posts on being punished by God if you do it, or posts from people calling someone and idiot who's looking for attention and telling them to just do it and stop complaining.
If you are in that frame of mind it's very hard to stay focused enough to look for proper help. You want help, then when you get it you don't want it, but you still kind of do, and you want to ask for help but you can't ask for help and you want to die but you don't want to die and every negative thing that has occurred in your life runs through your mind at once and you don't know what you want to do and you wish someone would just appear and make it all better but even if they came you would barely be able to share how you feel so that they can help you because you can't make up your mind and...... You just go nuts with confusion.

Someone who is in a suicidal frame of mind is NOT someone who can think logically. Every living thing has the instinct of survival, our mission as a living thing is to stay alive. It is an instinct programmed into the minds of every living thing from day dot. When someone is in such a mental state that they are literally going against their own instincts of survival, that person is NOT thinking logically or rationally. That person has a different thought process to someone who is not suicidal. They have a completely different thought process to THEMSELVES if they were thinking logically.
And it can be very hard to ask for help. How do you call a friend or relative and say 'I want to die'?
When I get down, and I have been a few times lately, I find it impossible to do anything more than go on Facebook and say 'I need a hug'. I cannot for the life of me ask for help, other than online. And part of that reason is because not many people are willing to go out of their way to help. I know WHY that is, because I've been on that end of the stick too, and it's frustrating as hell to deal with someone who is in that state. But better to go to someone who knows than someone who doesn't because all you ever hear about suicidal people from those who aren't is that they are being selfish. That infuriates me immensely. It is NOT selfish to be suicidal. 99.9% of people who are suicidal do NOT want to die, they are just emotionally exhausted and need things to end- death sometimes seems the only solution to a never ending torture. A lot of people who are suicidal think they deserve it, or they think people are better off without them, or they just want someone to notice them. We all need human interaction and understanding, so sometimes being attention seeking isn't about wanting to be centre of attention, it's about wanting someone to just see you.
But even as someone who has been suicidal and has a family filled with people who are the same, if someone comes to me wanting to die, I wouldn't know the first thing to say to them. There isn't really any right thing to say in that situation. It's scary, exhausting and frustrating to look after someone who's like that.
Don't try to help someone if you genuinely can't, as sad as it is nobody is obliged to look after someone like that. If you can’t, then don’t. But if you can, then do, because for some people this is the only place anybody has to go to. Some people don’t have phones to call a helpline. Some people don’t have friends or family who will rush to them. Some people find it easier to express how they feel impersonally rather than by speaking it directly. Some people have shut everyone out of their lives and can’t exactly call someone for help. Some people are just looking for others who relate. Some people just don’t know. Of course there is then the suicidal curse of nobody answering their phones and suddenly having a life when you so desperately need it.
This is the only place some people have.

do what you can when you can - thats all anyone can do thats all anyone can give

ive been in the situation whee someone said they were going to kill themselves - then signed off after i spent a few hours listening, suggesting and hoping i was helping - each time it happens .. and its happened more than once... i am out of my mind til i speak to them again or in one case ...dont

Most of us here jmo have been to that dark place they are at - its so hard all i want is for them to survive and get help.... pref wihtout being destroyed in the process - this has even happened on facebook to me so its not just here..

i guess we have to practice good self care while helpng if we can...

Another option for when things are going difficultly with a suicidal member is to pm a mod/admin that is online and let them know there is a problem. Even though mod/admin are not trained in suicide prevention, sometimes they can help the individual to reach out IRL and to help take some stress off of a member who is trying hard to assist.

Please remember that PC is not a place of trained professionals. We are all members who have our own issues that we are dealing with as well as those who are so depressed and feeling suicidal. No member should ever have to feel that they are the only link to help for that person. That is way too much of a burden for any member to take on. This is why there are no suicidal posts allowed either. Being an online community, we have no way of getting addresses and phone numbers or calling someone who can help someone IRL. The person who is going through the difficulty has to be willing to reach out IRL for their own safety. And we all hope that those members will do just that.

We have so many wonderful members here who are willing to help when they can. Please remember that first and foremost, each member must take care of themselves to the best of their ability. Self care is the way to go!

So where would it be ok to post when you are feeling suicidal but the door is still open - when you are trying to stay n are looking for help? I know you would need to post with a trigger. But I am not quite sure where to post?
thanks

Thank you for asking, calebsfire. The Depression forum is one of the best places for this.

In addition to what FooZe said there's also a sister forum called Neurotalk that's has a little more freedom if someone is having more than ideations.

http://neurotalk.psychcentral.com/

Hello,
I can understand why the PC guidelines state that. Here is my opinion, if it helps.

Saying what one feels in my opinion would be a different state of mind set than saying what one is going to be do.

To me the word feeling is a passive state of mind set (leaves room for discussing giving direction etc.), but for one to actually state that one is going to do with details etc. an action state of mind set (implies to me, already past the feeling part)

To me when one implies they are going to do, implies they are past the feeling state and now on to the action. Very scary I would think that none of us would want to underestimate this implied action and would want to direct the person to professional help.

Being in on the internet, chat room or forum requires all of us to express our emotions in written form, which is not the best form of really communicating effectively to one with the sensitivity of needing urgent and or immediate assistance. To state or mention doing implies action and I would agree that even with an implied action one should seek the attention of actually picking up the phone calling someone or go directly to someone professionally for assistance. It is too (easy) to misunderstand the mind set and emotions of one when your trying to type it and/or read it. Not the same as reaching out and communicating verbally.

so is it ok to say i feel suicidal? that i hate my life and wish i had the guts to kill myself?

its just a feeling.

where can i go to get support for suicidal feelings, when thay are not actions and dont require a hospital?

Yes, you can talk about your feelings. You can say you are having a hard time, you had a really bad day and feel like killing yourself.

That talks about feelings, it is open to support.

You just can not go into detail about how you plan to do it or say I'm going to do it on X day and good bye.

That kind talk is not allowed. It is very triggering and closed off and would upset people because there is nothing they could do to help. A few pages back page 2 I think, Sabby put it really well if you want to page back and see all of her answers.

would people even feel like they want to save the person who posts about suicide?

yes there are some people who feel like they want to save a person who is posting that they are suicidal. I have found many many postings by people who have posted they were ****feeling*** suicidal and many members go to bat with this person helping them to not continue forwards into the I am suicidal action plans mode.

I have also reported suicidal postings with the message ....is there any way you can help this person? so that those in authority here can find a way to help this person. that in its self is helping and possibly saving that suicidal person. Im not always in the right frame of mind to post with in suicidal feelings postings but hopefully by reporting the posting the moderators can help them in some way.