RE: suicidal posts

If suicidal posts are prohibited, why are they permitted to remain? i noticed in the depression forum a "gentle reminder" that suicidal posts aren't permitted yet there is one. It's very disturbing. i don't like the powerlessness it invokes nor the resulting anxiety. i want this person to get help and feel supported but it's not a position any of us should be put in. Thank you.

Hi Meso. This just my thinking, but I do think it's determined by the way it's phrased?

There are many suicidal members here at any one time. To post anything to denote active ideation and possible attempts is not allowed, as it does trigger others and we can't do anything directly for the member in crisis. They need to call their therapist or emergency workers or go to the ER.

However, feeling depressed enough to feel like dying, and posting for support to get through the lousy feelings is another matter. That's what PC is all about: support when you most need it.

I hope I showed the difference.

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Yes, i do get that. i suppose the post i'm referencing without naming names is a bit vague and, again, i want people to get the support they need. It's just that, in this case, it's not "i feel this way", it uses words that sound more final. Anyway, i appreciate the input, thanks muchly.

Just for future reference:

If you EVER see a post that you think may be against guidelines, or you find offensive or is a member in clear crisis - PLEASE click the "report post" button found on all posts. That way all of the members of the Community Team are informed and can act. Otherwise, please PM an online moderator or administrator with your concerns and a direct link to the post in question.

If there aren't any of the Community Team online, feel free to PM me or whomever you're most comfortable with on the team and we'll deal with it as soon as we can.

Thank you for caring about another person's well-being.

Have a good day!!

Thanks very much. It didn't occur to me to use the report post option. i should have done that so that the person in question could perhaps get quicker support. Man, i hope i didn't mess up in that regard. i think i dissociated and froze a bit...i know i spaced out quite a bit trying to figure out what to say, do, think, feel. i guess i'm doing my best here just as everyone else here. Thanks again!

MeSo, I love your tagline. I have lived a lie for so many years. You are so brave! You inspire me to do better. Thanks! Susan

I have a question about Psychcentral policy and rather than start a new thread I thought it might fit well with the discussion already in progress.

I don't really understand why messages containing suicidal thoughts or suicidal actions are not allowed but messages about cutting and self mutilation is okay.

Obviously if somebody is thinking seriously about suicide it can upset other people but if I am hurting so badly that I am considering suicide then maybe sharing my thoughts could help me get help before it is too late.

For the record I am not suicidal today but I have been in the past and made one attempt twenty years ago. I would like to think that if I were suicidal again that I could share my desperation but that is not allowed here.

I just don't understand why we have a forum dedicated to discussing self harm but discussing the ultimate self harm, suicide, is banned.

((((((((((( Yoda ))))))))))))

Can you not see how distressing it would be if members were allowed to do suicide posts and then went ahead and did it and died? We are not in a position to help someone in that sort of distress. It's not really possible to stop someone from committing suicide on the internet. Someone who is suicidal needs (irl) immediate care and attention. Psych Central is a wonderful support site but it is not a hospital.

Hey Yoda,

I'll try to explain it for you and hopefully my words will make sense.

Cutting and self mutilation are far from the ultimate of taking ones' own life. There is a big difference there.

We do have members here that are feeling suicidal at any given time. If they post that they are feeling that way and what emotions they are going through at the time and looking for support, that is one thing. For a member to post that I'm going to do it xxx and this is how I will do it.....that is against our guidelines.

Our guideline states - A threat would be along the lines of "I'm done, tonight's the night" or "Goodbye cruel world, I won't be back PC".

If you are discussing that you are wondering why you should continue....that leaves the door open for conversation and support. See the difference?

I hope what I have said has helped.....feel free to pm if you have further questions ok?


sabby

I think the issue in question is triggering.
Sometimes when people read about suicide it might trigger thoughts of their own and unfortunately action on said thoughts.
While I understand talking something out sometimes helps people, I think the intent here is for those who are really in a bad way they need to be encouraged to find local tangible support to help prevent any actions rather than just typing away and getting themselves more emotionally "bound up".
Does this make sense?
do I have it right?
And does anyone have any comments on what I've said?
Please let me know if I'm
"confuzzed"
about all this....

I have come across some posts with the titles suicide, suicidal ideation, suicidal...etc. Some of them do have a trigger icon beside the title. I would appreciate if members would use a less triggering word or phrase other than the ones that I have mentioned. Even with the trigger icon beside the title...it is still triggering. And with the Internet it is easy to search for trained mental health professionals in your city/country that are better able to help you if you are suicidal or having suicidal ideations. It is even as simple as going to the front of most phone books and calling a crisis network phone number...etc.

Nothing personal or disrespectful here but I don't know what words to substitute for suicidal. Sometimes I am dense so please forgive my ignorance.

I have tried to seek help when I have felt suicidal but for me it was not simple nor effective.

An example - in 1989 I had postpartum depression and called my gyn/ob doc and told him I was severely depressed. His response - drink a beer. Seriously, that is the advice he gave me. Two days after I called him I attempted suicide but it failed.

In 2007 I was very manic for a few days and then within several hours my mood went from flying high to rock bottom. I called my psychiatrist's office and then went to his office to wait until he could work me in. After waiting awhile his office worker told me to go home and he would call me later that evening. He never called. The next day I returned to his office and they said he would not be in the office that day. I felt abandoned. So I bought some orange juice and vodka and started drinking which was a part of my suicide plan. I was then in progress toward my suicide since I mattered to nobody. I decided to see if my therapist was in the office since her office was en route to my suicide destination and if she was not there then that would just be one more sign that I should end it all. But she was in and she sent me to an emergency dept nearby and I was admitted.

Although I was a member of PC I knew I could not post about my intent. I felt totally alone and my mood was grim. Personally I think if somebody is that far down they need support anywhere they can find it. I know others disagree and that is fine but I wish PC could be part of my support network if I am suicidal again. Surely I could find better advice here than a doc telling me to drink a beer.

These are my thoughts and I respect that others here will disagree with me.

Just a thought, but I know there are self-help forums out there for those who are suicidal, who DO allow discussion. I remember one specifically but do not remember the name of it. You might google for something like that though.

Just because we cannot allow it here doesn't make it inherently "wrong". Its just that we are not set up to take care of something like that in these parts.

Yet self harming threads are just as triggering, and can actually lead to accidental death.

I think we should be allowed to express how we feel, whether that's suicidal, sad, depressed, lonely, triggered, hurting, suffering, happiness, etc.

Being heard is important and being less alone and feeling related to is important, too.

But yeah.
It's doubtful the rule will be changed.

Jmo...
There is obviously a big difference in an accidental death and a planned one.
Struggling with SI is absolutely dangerous, and much support and understanding is given. It can give the poster time to think before acting, or seek medical help if they have already SId and it's serious.
There is a chance to prevent, to guide and direct someone.

With suicidal posts, there is nothing anyone here can do.
Oh wait, there is...we can worry and weep and wonder if that person did it.
Sharing feelings of despair and needing comfort is vastly different from an announcement of "here I go..."
What the heck can anyone do with that kind of post??
Nothing.

I have seen it happen on another forum where someone will post about their detailed plans on their final exit. Nothing is heard from them despite pleas to get help, numbers for the Hot Lines, numerous offers of personal phone calls...

There is a void, but there is also a question of whether that person was serious and did it; or was it an attention getter.
Crap like that stirs up a lot of guilt, fear, and sadness from those who tried to help.

There has to be some kind of boundary about these things.

Sharing most feelings and reaching out for help has never been discouraged here at PC.

For the protection of the community as a whole, yeah, it's been asked that members do not make suicidal posts.

Jmo, of course

Catherine

that was a really helpful clarification, sabby, thank you. do you think that bit you quoted could be put in the depression forums instead of the current message? or maybe a link to that quote? because i have been reading it like meso - that suicidal content is inappropriate, not just threats/plans.

Whether an "attention getter" or seriously considering, they should be heard and supported.

I've tried to attempt suicide more than 30+, I've just lost count now, times in my life, since age 9, through to last year in December, almost succeeding many times, I think people do understand suicidal idealization, suicidal feelings, suicidal thoughts, as well as SI/SH. I just think people should be heard and should say how they feel/what they are thinking for a chance to open the door to help/being supported.

But I know this one opinion won't matter to change a rule like that. Just my opinion, and that's it. Cheers.

I agree with you that people deserve to be heard Pupp....most definitely. Thank you for your input

While we have a lot of leeway to speak our minds here, there are some things that we just cannot help members with, and that is real life, real time assistance to a member who is actively suicidal. This needs to be dealt with between a member and a professional who can help and treat immediately for that member's safety. DocJohn created this guideline to help keep our community safe and to aid those who are suicidal to look IRL for support and help.

Many members have suicidal ideation every single day. It's not against guidelines to discuss that one is feeling like this, and as long as there is no plan or discussion of how they would accomplish it, one can reach out for support and help.

Pupp, if you feel really strongly about your thoughts on this, you are more than welcome to pm DocJohn and let him know. I can't speak for him as to if he would or would not change this guideline, that's up to him.


sabby

Thanks sabby, I also agree that people deserve to be heard.

I too wondered about this when I first signed up - I did think to myself that even talking about contemplating suicide could be conceived as a threat & would therefore be inappropriate & unwelcome. I do fully understand the reasoning for the rule & sabby's clarifications make absolute sense to me.

I did wonder if the resources links under the depression forum & maybe a link back to the appropriate section of the main site's Resources pages, might be duplicated somewhere on the main forum index page - just so they're more immediately available for somebody in crisis? (My reasoning for that, is that when I visit the site, the main forum index is nearly always the 1st page I hit.)