afterlife thoughts

I consider myself an agnostic atheist, and I don't have any belief in an afterlife. I don't necessarily deny the existence of one; it would certainly be nice for something to be after this. But I don't hinge my life on one existing either. I prefer to live as if an afterlife doesn't exist, which gives this life infinitely more meaning (not out of a bias against religion, but simply by virtue of this life being finite). If there's an afterlife, it comes as a welcome bonus.

I believe after death we either go to Valhalla or Hel (neither of which are bad places to be).

First of all I think there is no such thing as “immutable truth.” That’s my opinion and I’m sticking to it.

I’ve had a near death experience that lasted 45 minutes on a clock. (Car crash) To me it just seemed like a few minutes. I just remember feeling calm and peaceful. From this experience I believe that conciousness can exist outside the body. Whether my spirit would have moved on somewhere else I don’t know. I didn’t see any tunnel of light or hear ancestors calling or see the flames of hell. I was just watching the medical staff wondering what they what they were were going to do with my body because they decided I was dead. I certainly looked dead. My skin was completely white, my lips were blue, and I was covered in blood. Not a good look for me.

They all left the room and I thought well hmmm, maybe I am dead? What am I supposed to do now? After a while a nurse came in the room and began to wipe the blood off my face. As soon as she touched me I slammed back into my body and started screaming because I was in pain. It scared the living crap out of the poor nurse.

I think that we atheists are more reviled than the poor agnostics! And it’s true that we don’t believe in garden fairies or spirit worlds and there are those — Richard Dawkins comes to mind — who not only rebuff ‘believers’ but engage in debate with spiritualists in an attempt to elucidate our views: And there’s nothing bad or wicked in that.

I’m not certain why you’ve concluded that spiritualists are any more careful or eloquent in what and how they write than atheists? Spiritualism can certainly lend itself to much more flowery prose because there are no restraints upon the imaginations of spiritualists. If you allow yourself to believe that spirits exist you have to allow that others could be right about the existence of those pesky garden fairies and spirit dimensions, alternate planes of spiritual existence, misogynist afterlife’s where men are administered to by a dozen virgins, etc. Every notion and fancy becomes ‘possible’ because nothing can be proven or disproven—feelings (vague, strong, esoteric) have to be accepted as facts because there’s absolutely no way to prove the existence of spirits.

I think that I can say with a high degree of certainty, and without resorting to the use of folksy aphorisms, that spirits and afterlives and extra spirit-filled dimensions, etc., do not exist. I’ve no need to ‘keep an open mind’ about spirit-dimensions because I don’t believe in spirits and the only extra theoretical dimensions I know of are found in higher mathematics (9, 10, 11 dimensions? I gotta say, I don’t know!).

Neuroscience is poised to explode in the next 100 years, I believe, but it’s adequate now in offering proofs — factual data — about the functions of the brain. You’re right about science some respects, we can’t with any finality disprove invisible spirits, but we know so much more today about brain functioning that all of the current data means that ‘brain death’ is the death of consciousness — even though our dinosaur-brain-bits might, at some level, continue to function.

Finally, I think that debate over spiritualism can be healthy only if it remains civil and that both sides bring their “I cannot prove” cups. I can’t disprove the non-existence of the invisible any more that you can prove existence. I think that there are more important matters to discuss, really.

P.S. I interact with dead people frequently. Sometimes I know that I’m delusional, sometimes not. The dimensional plane of these interactions are in my brain. If they began to leave cookies for me I could say that they’re real. No cookies yet.

I think that we atheists are more reviled than the poor agnostics! And it’s true that we don’t believe in spirit worlds and there are those — Richard Dawkins comes to mind — who not only rebuff ‘believers’ but engage in debate with spiritualists in an attempt to elucidate our views: And there’s nothing bad or wicked in that.

I’m not certain why you’ve concluded that spiritualists are any more careful or eloquent in what and how they write than atheists? Spiritualism can certainly lend itself to much more flowery prose because there are no restraints upon the imaginations of spiritualists. If you allow yourself to believe that spirits exist you have to allow that others could be right about the existence of those pesky garden fairies and spirit dimensions, alternate planes of spiritual existence, afterlife’s where men are administered to by angels or virgins, etc. Every notion and fancy becomes ‘possible’ because nothing can be proven or disproven—feelings (vague, strong, esoteric) have to be accepted as facts because there’s absolutely no way to prove the existence of spirits.

You’re absolutely right: belief is not a certainty. I think that I can say with a high degree of certainty that spirits and afterlives and extra spirit-filled dimensions, etc., do not exist. I’ve no need to keep an open mind about spirit-dimensions because I don’t believe in spirits, and the only extra theoretical dimensions I know of are found in higher mathematics (9, 10, 11 dimensions? I gotta say, I don’t know!).

Neuroscience is poised to explode in the next 100 years, I believe, but it’s adequate now in offering proofs — factual data — about the functions of the brain. You’re right about science some respects, we can’t with any finality disprove invisible spirits, but we know so much more today about brain functioning that current data means that ‘brain death’ is the death of consciousness — even though our dinosaur-brain-bits might, at some level, continue to function, the ego/us/essence is dead. Brain functioning — or lack of it — can be measured with a simple EEG test or even more complex brain imaging devices.

Finally, I think that debate over spiritualism can be healthy only if it remains civil and that both sides bring their “I cannot prove” cups. I can’t disprove the non-existence of the invisible any more that you can prove existence. I think that there are more important matters to discuss, really.

P.S. I interact with dead people frequently. Sometimes I know that I’m delusional, sometimes not. The dimensional plane of these interactions are in my brain. If they began to leave cookies for me I could say that they’re real. No cookies yet.

I dont really think there is and that scares me to death on so many levels. 1) its like sleep but no dreams and you will be that way forever. 2) your body will be poked and prodded after death (embalming) or burned 3) in 100 years no one will even know you existed unless youre famous4) after time even your family members dont miss you much 5) you never get to see anyone you loved again. The list could go on and on.

Then to me the secret is to be happy in your life and grab all the fun and enjoyment you can. I can honestly say I don't know. I have had some really strange experiences...but then the scientific side of me says something different. So I am just going to "go with it" as it were.

The very fact that we simply can't know...makes 'living' our life so very important.

I won't say I know or I don't know. I will, however, say I believe.

It sounds as if you’re more scared of death than to death.

Death isn’t like sleep and, yes, you will cease to exist forever. No point in worrying about your decomposing corpse or the two or three generations of family members who may recall you — you’ll no longer exist.

You needn’t add to your list; best that you accept the reality of life and work on that rather than pondering the ‘down sides’ of death!

If I believe and I turn out to be wrong, nothing is lost or gained.
But if you don't believe and you turn out to be wrong, what then?
Purely rhetorical...

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I am sympathetic to this argument, but there are some responses to it. It's up to you to decide whether these responses are valid.

One response is that people need a way to pick between many religions and they don't have one. Take just two religions - Islam and Christianity. A standard view of Islam says you have to worship Allah as the only god. If you worship anyone but Allah, you have a low chance of being saved. On the other hand, a standard view of Christianity says you have to accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior to be saved. It might not be impossible to be saved in both Islam and Christianity but it's at least quite difficult. Now when you add in all the religions throughout the world and throughout history, how are you to know which religion will lead to your salvation?

Another response is if a person does not believe, there's no choice that person can make to cause the person to believe. Presumably, the belief we are talking about is something at a person's core. There's a lot a person can fake, but can a person fake the feelings at the core?

what i 'know', i know; what i don't 'know', i don't know; i don't do 'believe'.

I do believe. I do have faith. I'm not blind in either one. I am not clever or entertaining in my testimony, but I am steadfast and the result is joy and peace. I don't need others' approval, nor am I swayed or weakened by ridicule. I live to be an example, show love and compassion to others, and I have never found a life more worth living than that.

I consider myself a gnostic Christian. I do believe in afterlife. I had a near death experience.

Near death speaks of that something exists after life. If you think of a day going from day to night from sleeping to waking, what is always present is consciousness. The near death experiences seem to confirm that for me. So how can we know our consciousness and learn to focus on it? That is a question I ask myself.

I've lived, died, and been reborn. I sort of remember a state in between. It was restrictive, static and brightly contrasted with yellow, black and red colours. I think I was the yellow and black, but I sort of bled into the red like it was all stitched together. It wasn't physical, but it wasn't ethereal either. It was more like I and everything else was made from plasma. I was the only thing that existed in that plane of reality, but not the only thing that existed "everywhere"; like there are multiple planes and this was just a pocket of this reality and not really outside of it. It felt like been inside an egg and I remember feeling feverish and tormented. It was also lacking spacial dimensions... maybe. It's hard to comprehend or remember.

Our son died on January 12, 2018. Immediately upon his death, we all started feeling his presence. I could smell his cologne at the airport when we went there the day he died to pick up our daughter. His best friend could feel him. We could all sense him there. None of us have had this experience before our son passed. One day, I was thinking about a happy memory of him and I could feel him smile. It's feel-seeing or feel-see. It's when you feel something, but you also have a vision of what you feel. I wasn't seeing his smile from the memory, I was seeing the smile on his face at knowing I was remembering a happy time. My husband has never believed in the afterlife, until now, because he can feel-hear our son speak to him. Or perhaps he's just feeling what our son is feeling in that moment. He firmly believes in the afterlife now. It's also little things that happen. Our son spent a day with his best friend in the weeks before he left us in a garden where there were a lot of butterflies. There are photos of him with a butterfly on his hand. Those butterflies were in an enclosed garden type arboretum. A week after our son passed, that friend was seeing butterflies everywhere they went. Real butterflies, butterflies on t-shirts, butterfly decorations for your home, etc. And when that friend is sad, she frequently sees a butterfly. Those on the other side communicate with us, but we are conditioned to not notice that communication. And I think the deceased can re-direct things to us. I see dragonflies on my patio frequently. I believe my son re-directs them there to me.

So the next life I can become an ET? I wish that were true, but honestly have no idea what my own conscious perception of reality will bring me when I cease to live. That I can say is the universal messages of my world are trying to tell me. Though I do question this since I once had a strange dream, as if it were a recollection of a past life. Then again I have to take everything with a grain of salt. I'm open to the many possibilities of the many theories that we hold, but then I have my teeter totter doubts in believing.