[Simone70]

Recently I finished a course of EMDR with a clinical psychologist. It helped me a lot, and I feel much more able to weather the inevitable stresses of life, than I have in the past. I still think I find it more difficult to cope with stress than your average person without mental illness, but for me, I'm a lot better.

The psychologist told me that he thought my problems mainly stemmed from trauma, not mental illness. I was taken aback at first. I have grown used to seeing myself with that label, accepted it. That label being schizoaffective disorder. I have been thinking about this for the last 12 months, since the psychologist first brought it up, and I finally came to the conclusion that I should at least try and see how I go without meds - or at least Lithium and Paliperidone. Because my major issue is severe depression, I don't want to go off Lexapro.

I spoke to the local mental health service who along with my GP, will support me to do this. I see my GP next week.

But, I have to admit I am nervous. I really don't want to take another trip down the rabbit hole. If I do this, I want to do it really slowly. It will be nice not to be so fuzzy headed, maybe I'll even lose some weight?

Has anyone been in this position and survived? I would love to hear stories about how this worked (or not) for people. Please do share if you can. Thank you.

Simone, Lithium is basically sodium is it not? And we need it to function. Some people can produce it in their bodies and others cannot. I know someone who was taken off their Lithium after 15 years. They moved from NV to VT and the people here would not honor their meds there. I have seen them come unraveled and it is not pretty. I don't think they ever got more Lithium. Really think this through. You are on it for a reason. Lithium is one of those drugs once on it it is for life. Please ask an expert first. tc and blessings

[marmaduke]

Yes your mental illness could come from trauma as IMO trauma at an early age changes the brain.
Can therapy change the brain? Possibly I guess.
Not sure about coming off meds, that would worry me.
Maybe worth a try under supervision.

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[marmaduke]

There is inherited mental illness like scizophenia, and mental illness that is inflicted by abuse.

Continuous stress particularly at an early age when the brain is still developing changes neuro pathways. Stress pathways become bigger more active, stress hormones increase. The fight or flight response is frequent.

Can those pathways change back to normal with therapy? maybe, sometimes.
It will depend on the individual, there are so many variables.

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[Aviza]

I think mine is also induced by trauma and stress. I have been without meds for the better part of a year, actually according to records nearly 2 years. Aside from the month of major feelings of anxiety and emotional ups and downs (during the divorce) I think I'm doing really well honestly and no really sure I want to go on meds now. I mean I made it through the big time stress, and kind of feel like it's a crutch more than a necessity thinking about it. I need to learn how to manage my stress not hide it or bury it with medication. Same diagnosis btw.

[Simone70]

Originally Posted by omegalamed

Simone, Lithium is basically sodium is it not? And we need it to function. Some people can produce it in their bodies and others cannot. I know someone who was taken off their Lithium after 15 years. They moved from NV to VT and the people here would not honor their meds there. I have seen them come unraveled and it is not pretty. I don't think they ever got more Lithium. Really think this through. You are on it for a reason. Lithium is one of those drugs once on it it is for life. Please ask an expert first. tc and blessings

I was first prescribed lithium to augment an anti-depressant for treatment-resistant depression. It wasn't prescribed as a mood stabiliser because I don't have huge swings into mania. I have never had a manic episode, but possibly a hypomanic one. I wasn't in treatment at the time of the queried hypomanic episodes, so can't be sure. My major problem is severe and/or psychotic depression. I don't want to stop the anti-depressant for this reason. I am planning to seek advice from my Dr. I hear your thoughts, and I'm still thinking it's worth a try. I have been on lithium for 15 years, so if I do it, it will be very slow and straight back on it if depressive symptoms surface. Thanks for your thoughts.

[Simone70]

Originally Posted by marmaduke

There is inherited mental illness like scizophenia, and mental illness that is inflicted by abuse.

Continuous stress particularly at an early age when the brain is still developing changes neuro pathways. Stress pathways become bigger more active, stress hormones increase. The fight or flight response is frequent.

Can those pathways change back to normal with therapy? maybe, sometimes.
It will depend on the individual, there are so many variables.

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

I tend toward believing that we have a genetic predisposition toward mental illness, and stress/abuse/trauma flicks the switch. I don't know that once triggered, we can go back to how we once were. I wonder how much the neural pathways can be changed after years of illness and medication. But I feel like I have to at least try to find out.

[Simone70]

Originally Posted by Aviza

I think mine is also induced by trauma and stress. I have been without meds for the better part of a year, actually according to records nearly 2 years. Aside from the month of major feelings of anxiety and emotional ups and downs (during the divorce) I think I'm doing really well honestly and no really sure I want to go on meds now. I mean I made it through the big time stress, and kind of feel like it's a crutch more than a necessity thinking about it. I need to learn how to manage my stress not hide it or bury it with medication. Same diagnosis btw.

I'm glad to hear that you are going well Aviza. Happy days! I too wonder how much of my normal range of emotions and stress management skills I am burying with medication.

[avlady]

i also think simone said it right about burying it with the medication. one thing i always wondered too.

[Simone70]

Saw my GP today and I now have an appt to see a consultant psychiatrist in 6 weeks for review. So, I'll wait and hear what this Dr has to say before I make up my mind. If she recommends that I stay on meds, then that is what I'll do.

[PISCES 71]

This struck me:
"I tend toward believing that we have a genetic predisposition toward mental illness, and stress/abuse/trauma flicks the switch. I don't know that once triggered, we can go back to how we once were. I wonder how much the neural pathways can be changed after years of illness and medication. But I feel like I have to at least try to find out. "

I totally agree. I was 58 when Dx'd as bipolar by doctors who didn't even mention PTSD following a near death, life altering trauma. It definitely "flicked the switch" and I did experience both mania and depression but that ended 10 years ago. Last April, I quit smoking and quit my meds in a fit of disgust and mistrust...disgust with my habits and mistrust of established mental health guidelines. I know me better than anyone. I've had no bad side effects from quitting. On the contrary, I feel sharper than ever. I still use 50 mg of Seroquel occasionally for sleep. A morphine drip and two weeks of sleep deprivation, along with the initial trauma...supplied the "switch". Never go too long w/out adequate sleep.

I was scared for weeks after quitting the Depakote (Divalproex)...waiting for symptoms that never arrived. I didn't ask permission to do this cold turkey...I just did it. However, your case sounds more complicated than mine...I can't recommend what I did. We're all different, with different abilities and different tolerances...insist on being treated that way.

Keith

[Simone70]

Thanks for sharing your story Keith. I'm really glad you had a good outcome. I'm hoping I have a good outcome too! It's funny you should mention sleep deprivation. I haven't been sleeping well for a couple of months and have tried Seroquel again for sleep but find it makes me too groggy the next day. Off to the pharmacist today to see about something else, was up 'til three this morning.

[PISCES 71]

What Seroquel dosage are you using? I find 50mg is about right for me. I get eight uninterrupted hours with just a slight hangover. By the time I've showered and coffeed, the groggies are gone. The stuff is reliable....25mg will get me 4-5 hrs with virtually no aftereffects.

I will admit to having a pretty regular mild BP symptom...I work my jaws a bit. For the life of me...I can't recall when that trait first occurred in me. But I do remember it's presence during my mania. It's a small thing but it's telling me I'm not entirely free of symptoms. None of the heavier ones have manifested since quitting....no delusions, no rapid thoughts or speech, no inappropriate spending, no hyper sexuality, etc.

Winter brings out my SAD (seasonal affective disorder) and that alone can cause mild depression so I'm not concerned about the occasional blahs and blues. If there's sunlight...I flat out smile...for no other reason.

A little story: Twelve years ago while in the grip of a pretty intense mania episode, I laid on my back (outside...during winter...in the snow) and stared at the noon Sun for what seemed to be minutes. There should have been some ocular damage...there wasn't. There was some overcast but not enough to block the Sun's disc. My behavior made no sense...the results made no sense. Just a weird spooky experience relating to SAD, Sun, and sanity.

Do I feel more creative and confident since quitting? Yes, but again, what I did was pretty risky and I'm not 100% so.....

[Simone70]

I've just realized there is actually a coming off meds sub-forum in the psychiatric medication forum. Maybe one of the mods should move this thread there if they come along? I don't want to seem like I am espousing a no meds approach and I definitely don't want to upset anyone here. I understand that meds are a necessity for a lot of us.

Pisces, I was taking 25mg. Not much, but enough to make me dopey all the next day. I really hate that feeling, so I tried a herbal sleep remedy from the chemist last night and actually got to sleep at 12.30, rather than 3 am. The pharmacist says it has a cumulative effect, so I hope that it will continue to work.

It sounds like you are going quite well in staying free of major symptoms. It is a pretty risky thing to stop cold turkey. I hope that you continue to stay symptom free. How long has it been for now, since quitting meds?

[PISCES 71]

This came from that sub forum you mentioned:

"In bipolar disorder, Baldessarini and his research team found years ago that the rate of discontinuing ongoing treatment determines the risk and timing of relapse, he said. Initially, their research found that risk for relapse after discontinuing lithium was reduced by one half or more when slow dose-reduction over several weeks was compared to abrupt discontinuation (Baldessarini et al., 2006). Gradual discontinuation of antipsychotic drugs also resulted in lower risk of relapse in schizophrenia (Viguera et al., 1997). In a recent study, he and his colleagues found that stopping an antidepressant abruptly or only over several days resulted in a much greater risk for depression or panic than gradual discontinuation over two weeks or more (Baldessarini et al., 2010)."

They sound fairly positive about discontinuing meds (gradually and under supervision). I lost a long post here last night...don't know how that happened.

I wanted to ask: Can you tell me a bit more regarding transcribing? I read about it on a work forum you contribute to and looked up the link. You're simply transcribing audio to print... with grammatical editing? I'd like to give it a shot. I have Google chrome and Adobe Acrobat Reader DC.

[Simone70]

Pisces, I like the study you quoted. Thank you. I was actually thinking about going more slowly than that and reducing over a couple of months.

Regarding transcribing, yes it is transcribing an audio recording into a text file. With Transcribe Me and Rev, which are the two companies I recommended, they have a platform which you would use to do the transcribing, so you wouldn't need to use separate transcribing software or Microsoft Word/Adobe. Transcribe Me has a workhub which you log in to from which you would transcribe. It is equipped with it's own audio player, spellcheck, text expander and many other features. You can also plug in a foot pedal and use that to control the audio so your hands are free for typing.

With TM, the base rate is $27 per audio hour. Keep in mind that an audio hour translates to approx. 3-6 hours of actual typing, depending on typing speed and audio quality. With more experience, you can earn more as a QA (quality assurance) and on special projects. I currently earn $50 per audio hour. It won't make you rich, but it helps pay the bills.

Hope that helps!

[Aviza]

I've decided to go to a different provider and basically be retested to see if my diagnosis has changed. I cried out to God at my worst, I strongly believe healing has occurred. My previous doctors have dismissed that but meds didn't even cure me at the time. I was so afraid to be without them when they finally seemed to be working, that the fact I'm off them at all is His work.

Yeah I know it sounds crazy but I'm the sanest crazy person you'll meet.

[PISCES 71]

Thank you Simone. Yes, the info helped. You clarified the situation perfectly. I'm a two finger typist...my left hand caught hell when I was young and typing normally is impossible for me. I'm quite fast with those two index fingers but...nowhere near professional. The (audio hour) time/earnings ratio sounds discouraging. I appreciate your honesty...I had a different concept.

That lost post included an answer to your question...it's been 10 months since quitting my major meds. So far...so good.

I'm new on the site. If you don't mind, I'll come to you here with my questions. You seem knowledgeable and clear.

-------------

Aviza,
Strong faith can accomplish what mere will cannot. If you truly believe in a given power that can affect your life...it's a great advantage over someone who has no such faith. As I see it, the subconscious mind doesn't quibble...it reacts to a sincere cry for assistance and our recognition of something beyond our egos. When asked properly, it can lift us. Simone has the right idea about the meds...easy does it.