[AppinIsobel]

Forced medication saved my life

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2012/06/18/erin-l-hawkes-forced-medication-saved-my-life/

[fishsandwich]

As much as I'm glad that she got better, I wish she wouldn't go on in an national newspaper about how she doesn't mind the human rights violations that happened to her. :-/ It seems to take only one person like her who didn't mind being assaulted (and yes, it is assault, whether or not it helps) for the establishment to shut down hundreds of people who say they were seriously, permanently harmed.

Originally Posted by fishsandwich

As much as I'm glad that she got better, I wish she wouldn't go on in an national newspaper about how she doesn't mind the human rights violations that happened to her. :-/ It seems to take only one person like her who didn't mind being assaulted (and yes, it is assault, whether or not it helps) for the establishment to shut down hundreds of people who say they were seriously, permanently harmed.

you are right on fish!

here is a link, i hope it works.. succinctly describing the lies and inherent harms of psychiatry.

[fishsandwich]

Thanks! I just finished watching the film and it was really forceful!

Sadly, the format/style reminded me of "Ancient Aliens". Do you ever watch that show? I'm always well impressed that I have enough time in my life to watch such utter crap.

[fishsandwich]

Also, I wrote in a short reply to it, but I didn't post it in the comments -- I sent it directly to the editor. I'm Canadian, like that newspaper, and I have all kinds of qualifications to throw around, like that author, and I want there to be a counterpoint. I hope it gets published!

Now, if only I had written a book that needed press coverage, I'd be set!! :eyeroll:

[RunningEagleRuns]

i disagree with the vid. sure some docs are bad but some are good. they are just trying to do their job

[ickydog2006]

I actually like the article, but agree that there should be more articles on both sides. The sad truth is that the exact same treatment for two people, in seemingly the same situation, often causes very different results in the psychiatric field. I don't think there is a right answer. I definitely think forced medication does save many people's lives, but it also ruins other people's lives. There is no way to know what the result will be.

[costello]

Originally Posted by ickydog2006

The sad truth is that the exact same treatment for two people, in seemingly the same situation, often causes very different results in the psychiatric field.

I totally agree, ickydog.

I also think that this thing we call "schizophrenia" isn't one thing. There are a number of different things which can look like schizophrenia.

what you are saying is basically that people function at different levels. Most schizophrenics are higher functioning, but i have seen some who are not able to care for themselves and require outside supports. Meds, unfortunately, often make things worse, not better. Sometimes, we dont' see the adverse affects on dispostion and demeanor of being prescribed antipsychotics. This is called efficacy in treatment protocols. One must question, always, efficacy. i have been around schizophrenics all my life. I have seen thier conditons get worse as a result of forced medication.

[costello]

Originally Posted by guru2013

what you are saying is basically that people function at different levels.

I don't know if you're talking to me, but I was saying that this cluster of things we label "schizophrenia" is more than one thing IMO. Giving it one name creates the illusion that it is one thing. I agree that there can also be different levels of intensity and different levels of ability to cope. But I think there are more fundamental differences. And I suspect there are different underlying causes. Gluten intolerance seems to be a cause in a tiny proportion of cases, for example.

There's a case study floating around about an elderly woman who had been sz for her whole life - resistant to medications. She went on a low carb diet for weight loss and many of her psychiatric symptoms abated. I find this to be so tragic. What would her life have been like if they'd discovered this when she was 20 or 30 or 40? What a waste! You could poke pills down this lady's throat from here to eternity and it wouldn't help. It didn't help!

Of course, this isn't the answer for everyone, but for some people there are dramatic results.

Schizophrenia, gluten, and low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diets: a case report and review of the literature

Abstract

We report the unexpected resolution of longstanding schizophrenic symptoms after starting a low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diet. After a review of the literature, possible reasons for this include the metabolic consequences from the elimination of gluten from the diet, and the modulation of the disease of schizophrenia at the cellular level.

Case report

C.D. is a 70 year-old Caucasian female with a diagnosis of schizophrenia since the age of seventeen. Her diagnosis was based on paranoia, disorganized speech, and hallucinations. She reported both auditory and visual hallucinations, including seeing skeletons and hearing voices that told her to hurt herself. According to her history, she has had these hallucinations on almost a daily basis since the age of seven. C.D. has also been hospitalized at least five times over the last six years for suicide attempts and increased psychotic symptoms. She has attempted to overdose on medications, cut herself, and ingest cleaning agents. Her most recent hospitalization was five months prior to initiating the low-carbohydrate diet. She has discussed both her suicidal ideations and her hallucinations with her psychiatrist who has tried to optimize her medication regimen in an effort to improve her symptoms, but this has been largely unsuccessful. Her prior anti-psychotic and mood-stabilizing medication regimen has included lithium 900 mg qhs, olanzapine (dose unknown), ziprasidone 40 mg bid, aripiprazole 30 mg qhs, lamotrigine 100 mg bid, and quetiapine 900 mg qhs. She is currently managed on risperidone 4 mg qhs.

...

She was seen ... in clinic 19 days [after starting the low carb diet]. When asked how she was doing, she responded that she was no longer hearing voices or seeing skeletons. She first noticed this upon awakening about 8 days after starting the program. She had had no change in medication. The only change had been in her dietary intake which now consisted of beef, chicken, turkey, ham, fish, green beans, tomatoes, diet drinks, and water. She denied hunger. C.D. was very happy that she was no longer hearing voices, and believed that it made her calmer. ...

Over the course of 12 months, C.D. has continued the low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diet and has had no recurrence of her auditory or visual hallucinations. ... She acknowledged having 2–3 isolated episodes of dietary non-compliance that lasted several days, where she ate pasta, bread, and cakes around the winter holidays; however she had no recurrence of her hallucinations.

[Researchers' analysis of what in the diet caused this change. They conclude gluten was the most likely culprit.]

Conclusion

While more research is needed to confirm the association between gluten intake and schizophrenia and whether dietary change can ameliorate schizophrenic symptoms, health care providers could consider screening patients with schizophrenia for celiac disease and/or augment the medical regimen with a gluten-free or low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diet.

http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/6/1/10

[fishsandwich]

My problem with the article was not that she took the drugs, it was that she seems not to realise that she was assaulted. It's not the drugs, it's the human rights abuse involved in forced drugging and psychiatric imprisonment -- that can NEVER be excused, no matter how much drugs might help some people.

[ickydog2006]

Originally Posted by fishsandwich

My problem with the article was not that she took the drugs, it was that she seems not to realise that she was assaulted. It's not the drugs, it's the human rights abuse involved in forced drugging and psychiatric imprisonment -- that can NEVER be excused, no matter how much drugs might help some people.

I think she realized she was assaulted, but believes that she has benefited overall. I think whether this can be excused or not depends on if you believe a person has a right to kill themselves. Sometimes it really does come down to psychiatric imprisonment and abuse or death. Part of me feels that a person should have the right to end their own life, but maybe medication should be forced. I definitely don't think medication should ever be forced on someone who doesn't indicate any threat to human life though.

[fishsandwich]

I think people do have the right to kill themselves (not other people, obviously).

But regardless of whether they do have that right or not (or if they are a threat to others), it doesn't mean forced medication isn't assault and there aren't better ways to go about preventing injury.
Like, I'm sure there are people who fall in love with their rapists and decide that they're going to give their burglars even more than was already stolen -- hell there's even 'Stockholm Syndrome' for people who fall in with their kidnappers -- but that doesn't mean those people should be allowed to advocate that behaviour or that their attitude to their attack is somehow healthy and to be replicated.

[ickydog2006]

What better ways do you think there are to keep someone from causing injury; especially in the case where they have done so in the past and threaten to again?

edited to add: Just fyi, I'm not saying any of these things out of malice or anger or to be confrontational. i.e. Please don't hate me.

[fishsandwich]

Originally Posted by ickydog2006

What better ways do you think there are to keep someone from causing injury; especially in the case where they have done so in the past and threaten to again?

edited to add: Just fyi, I'm not saying any of these things out of malice or anger or to be confrontational. i.e. Please don't hate me.

I don't hate you

Well, first, I believe people have the right to kill themselves if they like. I actually don't think it's always a problem to take people who are actively psychotic or threatening to hurt others (not themselves) to a safe place to watch them . . . problem is, hospitals aren't safe. Forced druggings are just the start of problems there.

Also, there's the problem that not everybody who is forced into hospital, labelled, and drugged is necessarily a harm to anybody (themselves or others). I've experienced far too many warped definitions of "harm" - not taking drugs, not agreeing with labels, even once living in a polyamorous lifestyle -- that somehow justified the psych imprisonment.

[fishsandwich]

One more thing:

While I don't believe that psych drugs should ever be forced -- because they're unscientific and not proven to work -- I could accept a system whereby drugs could be forced if a person fully lost mental capacity, and not merely posed a threat of harm to self or others. Losing mental capacity means a person has lost all ability to understand their situation and any information provided; it's the basis on which doctors provide legal (non-assautative) medical care to people who are, say, in a coma or unconscious from a severe trauma.

It sounds like the woman who wrote that article had lost mental capacity at the time she was forcibly drugged -- so such a system would have "caught" her anyway. As I said, it's not my ideal solution, but it is more humane and rights-based than any that currently exist in the Western world.