[costello]

My son has been telling me for years what an awful mother I was - mostly due to our lousy relationship from when he was a teen and pre-teen. But just recently he's started saying how terrible he was when he was a teen and how I didn't deserve to be treated so badly. He keeps saying he wishes things could have been different. He even said yesterday that he was a delinguent - which isn't true at all. He was an unpleasant person to be around, but I can't say I made it much better by how I reacted to him. I wish I'd taken a few minutes to think it through and notice how unhappy he was and that he could have used some support from me.

Anyway this is his new thing. He's clearly depressed. And now there's this excessive guilt and apologizing - for things that are water under the bridge in my book. I mean I'm sure I was unpleasant to my folks with I was a teen too. I can't spend my rest of my life beating myself up about it.

I don't see this new train of thought going anywhere good, you know? For one thing he's rewriting history to make himself the villain and me the long-suffering victim. Frankly it's no more accurate than his previous version where I was a demon who made totally unprovoked attacks on him. Why does he have this black and white view of the world? None of us are demons, and none of us are angels. We're all human with all our strengths and blemishes. When there's trouble between two people, it's usually not all one person's fault. But between a teen and an adult, more of the blame falls on the adult because the adult should have more maturity and more emotion regulation skills.

Anyway it's not a question I guess. Just an observation. I'm a bit worried about it, because he tends to take things to the extreme, beyond all reason. I wish he would see the complexities and intricacies of things.

[fishsandwich]

I remember you saying that you had him lower his antipsych dose because it was making him depressed. So he is still depressed after that lowered dose, or did something else happen? I'm sorry he's so down.

[ickydog2006]

Have you told him you forgive him for how he acted as a teen and that you're sorry for how you reacted to things when he was that age. I can understand your concern though. Is this the first time he's acknowledging his teenage misbehavior. He may have just realized he had something to do with the problems in the relationship. Working through the guilt and acceptance of forgiveness is an important step.

[costello]

Originally Posted by fishsandwich

I remember you saying that you had him lower his antipsych dose because it was making him depressed. So he is still depressed after that lowered dose, or did something else happen? I'm sorry he's so down.

The lower dose helped for a while, but he's sinking again.

[costello]

Originally Posted by ickydog2006

Have you told him you forgive him for how he acted as a teen and that you're sorry for how you reacted to things when he was that age. I can understand your concern though. Is this the first time he's acknowledging his teenage misbehavior. He may have just realized he had something to do with the problems in the relationship. Working through the guilt and acceptance of forgiveness is an important step.

Those are some great insights, icky. No, I haven't actually said "I forgive you." I have said I'm sorry for not being helpful. I don't usually tell people I forgive them, because I don't usually feel like I've been wronged. Or maybe I just give people a blanket forgiveness, because I tend to think we're all human and make mistakes. It feels wrong to say "I forgive you," because it makes it seem like I'm the victim - when actually we're all just human.

But, of course, this ignores the other person's need to hear those words, doesn't it?

Funny story: Once my sister went off on me and yelled at me about something minor. Later, she said she was sorry. I said, "I know you are." She just laughed. But really I knew she was sorry without her saying so, and in my heart I forgave her. I would have been sorry if I'd acted that way. But I always hope people will judge me when I'm acting like my better self, not my worse self. So I try to extend the same courtesy to others.

What you say about this being the first time he's acknowledging his behavior and his role and working through the guilt is brilliant. I really didn't see that angle at all. I'm glad I posted this issue. I hesitated, but that nugget of insight is really helpful to me. Thanks.

[KUREHA]

I was trying to think of something to say - sorry I can't

[Gr3tta]

i wonder if in order for you son to view you as "good," then it meant he had to be "bad?" like maybe he began to see that you weren't just an evil person bent on tormenting him, so in order for things to stay balanced in his mind, it meant that he had to be the one who was the villain?
divvying up roles in this way is something i have been prone to at times. it may not be what your son is doing at all. it's an idea though.

[Queen.A]

Hi Costello,

Your son may not necessarily be falling into depression. I honestly do not think anything wrong with his statement. We all get our 'guilt trips' from time to time. Not unless he is starting to show self hate, it's probably nothing to worry about.
That said, why not share with him a few stories from your teen years with your parents. It might help him.

[costello]

Originally Posted by Gr3tta

i wonder if in order for you son to view you as "good," then it meant he had to be "bad?" like maybe he began to see that you weren't just an evil person bent on tormenting him, so in order for things to stay balanced in his mind, it meant that he had to be the one who was the villain?
divvying up roles in this way is something i have been prone to at times. it may not be what your son is doing at all. it's an idea though.

He does see things in black-white, good-evil, up-down ways. I think that's why I'm worried about this trend. When he starts to see himself as 'bad' it pushes him toward psychosis. He gets fixated on something that's troubling him and 'thinks' about it until he manages to turn reality on its head. His new version of reality lets him have a better view of himself. He just can't accept that we all have good and bad aspects. Seeing something bad about yourself doesn't mean you're all bad.

[costello]

Originally Posted by Queen.A

Hi Costello,

Your son may not necessarily be falling into depression. I honestly do not think anything wrong with his statement. We all get our 'guilt trips' from time to time. Not unless he is starting to show self hate, it's probably nothing to worry about.
That said, why not share with him a few stories from your teen years with your parents. It might help him.

Thanks, Queen. Hope you and your husband are doing well.

I agree that it can be a good thing to feel a bit bad or guilty when we've done something that violates our value systems. That can be motivation to change!

I do think he was depressed. He seemed better yesterday. More relaxed. I took icky's advice and told him I forgive him. I stuck my head in his bedroom door yesterday morning as I was leaving the house and told him I had mentioned this issue on the forum and the suggestion was made that I tell him he's forgiven. I don't know if that's why he was more relaxed yesterday.

I think I've shared stories with him already. I did mention to him Saturday that I was a jerk to my parents sometimes when I was a teen. Teens can be like that.

I did tell him this story Saturday: My youngest sister was going around a few years ago telling everyone that she was abused as a child. My other sister and I couldn't figure out what she was talking about. My parents weren't perfect, but they weren't abusive. Specifically my sister bore a lot of resentment toward my mother. Then all of a sudden she stopped talking about this alleged abuse. Recently she told me what happened. She was forced into treatment for alcoholism after she got a DUI. During group sessions she heard other people share stories of how they were abused by their parents. Eventually it dawned on her that she hadn't been abused. She hadn't had anything happen to her that was anywhere close to the stories she was hearing in group.

No parent is perfect. We're just human beings. Some of us do better than others.