[Stefanian]

So many people I know keep telling me God is the only way to end my problems. When I've told my parents in the past about things I was hearing and seeing, as well as my anxiety, they told me it was because I didn't believe in God!!! Why would they say that?!? I've tried out religion (anything from the occult to Christianity) but it never helped me! So my parents have never taken me seriously, and neither have the few friends I've had. Someone on here awhile ago was talking about a program called MK-ultra, and I've looked into it a bit. Religion is how the governments around the world keep their people brainwashed. It makes sense right?

[costello]

Originally Posted by Stefanian

Someone on here awhile ago was talking about a program called MK-ultra, and I've looked into it a bit. Religion is how the governments around the world keep their people brainwashed. It makes sense right?

I looked up MKUltra after Kureha mentioned it. It doesn't seem to have anything to do with religion - unless I missed something.

Religion/spirituality is a huge issue for me. I always feel a pull toward the spiritual, but organized religion always turns me off. And the fact that the far right has coopted Christianity has made me feel a lot of anger about that religion. I've been drawn to Buddhist psychology and meditation, but not the religion itself.

Anyway I picked up a book about Martin Buber at the library yesterday, and it renewed my interest in developing a relationship with God. I've always been more interested in the mystical versions of religions.

Idk. I guess I don't have an answer for you. I don't know that believing in God will cure schizophrenia, but religious faith has provided strength to people facing many different kinds of challenges. And some people dx'd with sz see spiritual aspects to their experiences.

Good luck.

[newtus]

what people dont understand even christians is God doesnt do stuff for you its the faith in him and the faith that god will help you pull through. keyword is HELP.. he gave us free will to try to build our strength and knowledge and he GUIDES us towards the healing.

biggest mistake in the mainstream to believe that.

thats why i study religion.
most churches and preachers and followers preach that god cures stuff. he helps and guides us. he gave us FREE WILL. thats why we are allowed to choose between other religions. christianity is a lot more free and not as restrictive as most people are fed to beliieve.

most people havent read the bible back to front and studied it. even muslims study their religion.

im not preaching. and im not saying its whats right for YOU. just clearing up misconceptions.

[Stefanian]

MK-Ultra is government MIND CONTROL!!
A wise man once said Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful. The governments of the world need this sham to keep the populace in check.

I try to explain to the Christians I know: There's no point in believe in some invisible sky helper.

I would be lying if I said there was no emotional aspect to my leaving Christianity. I very nearly got expelled from my private High school because the fact that I'm gay almost got found out! Christians only seem concerned with telling you whats right and wrong. I want to experience a deeper darker purple. There's always collateral damage when opinions are expressed, because there's always someone offended. So I might as well stop now before I start offending. I wouldn't want to do that.

[RunningEagleRuns]

i believe in God and Im still ill...

[costello]

Originally Posted by Stefanian

The governments of the world need this sham to keep the populace in check.

I think there's probably more to it than that. It seems like some people have religious feeling and others don't. The ones that don't can't seem to understand what the ones that do are feeling.

Maybe it's as much due to brain chemistry as "mental illness" supposedly is. I heard of a man who didn't want his epilepsy treated, because the medications took away his mystical feelings. And I saw a post on a celiac forum by a guy who said he had a lot of religious feeling before he went on a gluten free diet. After he started eating gf, all of his religious inclinations disappeared.

I try to explain to the Christians I know: There's no point in believe in some invisible sky helper.

lol... I'm sure they appreciate that!

I would be lying if I said there was no emotional aspect to my leaving Christianity.

Of course, any break with an important aspect of your life is going to be disruptive.

I very nearly got expelled from my private High school because the fact that I'm gay almost got found out!

That must have been very painful. There are churches which will accept you. MCC, for example - the Metropolitan Community Church: http://mccchurch.org/. Or the Unitarians: http://www.uua.org/. And there are other religions besides Christianity. Not all of them require belief in an "invisible sky helper."

Christians only seem concerned with telling you whats right and wrong.

Not all of them.

I want to experience a deeper darker purple.

Purple, eh? Not entirely sure what you mean. Bruises?

There's always collateral damage when opinions are expressed, because there's always someone offended. So I might as well stop now before I start offending. I wouldn't want to do that.

I personally won't be offended. I was raised by an atheist dad and an agnostic mom who only attended Catholic church "just in case." I have far more spiritual feeling than either of them. Over the years I've gone from believing it's all hogwash to being very active in practicing religion. Up and down the scale, all my life. And I've been drawn to a variety of religions.

[insideout]

If you dont believe in yourself, you will find something else to believe in.
that might manifest as "God" for many people.

I for one, believe in myself.
and I think you should too.
<3

[newtus]

im so happy so many people want to dispel god. i was raised by a christian mother and father whos offended by that?

and gays running churches is an
oxymoron. its stupid even from a nonreligious aspect.

[newtus]

Originally Posted by Stefanian

MK-Ultra is government MIND CONTROL!!
A wise man once said Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful. The governments of the world need this sham to keep the populace in check.

I try to explain to the Christians I know: There's no point in believe in some invisible sky helper.

I would be lying if I said there was no emotional aspect to my leaving Christianity. I very nearly got expelled from my private High school because the fact that I'm gay almost got found out! Christians only seem concerned with telling you whats right and wrong. I want to experience a deeper darker purple. There's always collateral damage when opinions are expressed, because there's always someone offended. So I might as well stop now before I start offending. I wouldn't want to do that.

you are delusional. get meds. theyll help trust me.

[KUREHA]

Meds are mind control as well - isn't that what everyone is trying to avoid anyway.
Luckily mine are weak so my feelings are still with me and the truth.

[costello]

Originally Posted by newtus

you are delusional. get meds. theyll help trust me.

I don't see anything delusional in Stefanian's post. ???

[costello]

Originally Posted by newtus

and gays running churches is an
oxymoron. its stupid even from a nonreligious aspect.

I don't agree. Why would it be any stupider from a nonreligious aspect than nongay people running churches? From a nonreligious point of view, why would you care?

Gay people need a spiritual home too, and many of them were raised Christian and are drawn to that religion.

[newtus]

but so many want to badmouth the church. if they want to why are they running it? found your damn religion gays.

but you know what. ill be nice
i know not every gay person is like that.

and i care from all points of view. just because i am christian doesnt mean im close minded. thats how im able to be nice because i CAN see from many POVs

[Stefanian]

That's right Newtus! Meds are mind control, so why would I even consider taking them. I'm not delusional, but I think there's a reasonable probability that the governments of the world have active programs designed to keep people where they are. This is besides the point, but calling me delusional is rather a bit like the cat calling the kettle black. That's just my 10 cents.

[Stefanian]

Let me make it plain. I'm gay and I don't need religion. I sometimes use meditation to calm myself, and maybe reach some inner peace. I appreciate a lot of Buddhist teachings, and I use them to try and inch towards understanding myself.

I don't want to offend anyone, so I'm sorry if I have! Mea Culpa!

[costello]

Originally Posted by Stefanian

Let me make it plain. I'm gay and I don't need religion.

I'm guessing your young, and I see some of myself in your comments. I'm just saying if you change your mind and decide you need religion after all, and you're interested in Christianity, you can find fellowship.

I sometimes use meditation to calm myself, and maybe reach some inner peace. I appreciate a lot of Buddhist teachings, and I use them to try and inch towards understanding myself.

Same here, but I'm finding its not enough. I'm 50, and I've been working on this since I was 15. Still no answer. Maybe that's the point - to keep looking.

I keep coming back to this:

[fishsandwich]

Originally Posted by Stefanian

I try to explain to the Christians I know: There's no point in believe in some invisible sky helper.

I would never tell somebody that they have sz because they don't believe in God. That's inaccurate information. Nobody knows why people hear voices or have the other symptoms of sz. But I wouldn't go so far as to say that there's "no point" in believing in God, either -- if it suits you personally, anyway.

My (Christian) faith helped me (and only "me", personally) with my psychosis. Some of the basic things that religion does are helpful to most (probably all) people -- putting structure and ritual into your life, connecting you with a community, encouraging service to others (at least in the nicer versions of faith). It helped me to get up every Sunday and Wednesday and go to church and meet a group of nice, like-minded people in a calm environment and sing some songs about That Guy in the Sky. But those are things you can get in a lot of places--clubs, sporting societies, a local cafe even--I just chose to go to church.

As for the more spiritual side of things . . . actual belief in spiritual forces . . . I think that helped me too. I find it really comforting to pray/talk to God when I'm having a rough day . . . and you know, when I think about it it's really a lot like ringing a crisis hotline (like the Samaritans in the UK, if you know them). You can just talk and talk to somebody and they don't really answer (or they don't answer at all, if it's God you're talking to ) but at the end you feel like you've had a chance to vent; I at least feel better for that. And my faith reminds me of all the other people in the world who suffer; it reminds me to send my focus to those who have it worse than me. It's a nice outlook to have (even though I don't quite manage it most of the time!).

I rely a lot on a verse from Paul's Epistle to the Corinthians that says that when you have problems, God has already given you the tools to solve them--you have to look inside yourself and search your powers for a way to fix things. Again, I think that's something that people can get outside of organized religion--I just happen to be a religious person.

[fishsandwich]

Incidentally, I belong to an Anglican/Church of England church, which I like to describe as being "atheist with ritual". They're reasonably relaxed about everything--other religions, women, non-white ethnic groups, gay people, etc. I kinda-sorta grew up in the Latter Day Saints (Mormon) faith and it put me off religion for a loooooong time because of how extreme it was.

[fishsandwich]

Originally Posted by newtus

and gays running churches is an
oxymoron. its stupid even from a nonreligious aspect.

My priest is a lady with a kick-*** wife. (Yeah, wife.) They were leaders of the movement to get civil marriage legalised in this country and are continuing to fight for full marriage equality (i.e. religious same-sex marriage recognised by the state), as well as being spiritual leaders. I have a lot of respect for them

[Stefanian]

I'm glad to hear from so many people about their own perspective on religion and how they use it in their lives. I'm sorry if I came off as condescending, I really am sorry.

If religion helps you to find peace, then who am I to argue against it.
Again sorry for causing commotion, and as my mom used to say "Two things you never talk about in public: politics and religion." Leastways, I guess I have other serious things to consider first.

[fishsandwich]

Don't worry hun I'm ashamed of some of the batshittery that people do in the name of religion, including my own. Also, I talk about politics in public all the time: I'm more than happy to tell all and sundry that US Republicans are craycray.

[costello]

Originally Posted by Stefanian

"Two things you never talk about in public: politics and religion."

Oh, you can get me way more angry talking politics than religion!

[newtus]

Originally Posted by Stefanian

I'm glad to hear from so many people about their own perspective on religion and how they use it in their lives. I'm sorry if I came off as condescending, I really am sorry.

thanks for the apology because i was quite pissed.

here my 2 cents: its not your place to tell others about God either. best just to leave it be. and your right thats really not something you mention in public: religion and politics unless you have position to start and end a civil debate civilly and convincing christians of something that you have no proof of just like you think christians dont is mediocre and hypocritical.

you wanna believe in anything else. fine.
this forum isnt a religious forum nor a debate forum.
its a mental health support forum.

to speak kindly - please keep it to that.

per forum rules - FYI - religious talk here is not allowed.
spiritual is fine.
theres a spiritual subforum on here but this is the schizophrenia subforum.

[Stefanian]

Don't get yourself so worked up Newtus! I was merely speaking my mind, and after all isn't that to be encouraged. Simply getting thinks off my chest.

I'm more than sure religion HAS had a far reaching impact on my mental health. I've suffered much at the hands of people claiming a hotline to God, but I don't expect you to understand that. Nonetheless, thanks for "Speaking kindly"

[Stefanian]

Before this gets even more out of hand, let's just stop while we're young. I profusely apologized for mentioning god, so I think this conversation is about over.