[Sometimes psychotic]

Canadian Woman denied entry into US by Border Agent who Referenced Confidential Medical History : worldnews

This woman was not allowed into the US from Canada just because she had been hospitalized due to mental illness. She missed out on a $6000 cruise because of this. For the most part comments on this site (reddit)are very supportive of MI, in her case she was depressed and suicidal...the main question is how the US government got ahold of her medical records and whether this is the case for those of us in the US as well. Watch yourselves if tough abroad.

[cybermember]

If you are on disability in the U.S., the government already has all your medical info. So it's too late as it's already out there.

[dillpickle1983]

Wow, that's crazy. I had documented mental illness when I was a flight attendant, and I was allowed into Canada and vice versus and Mexico with no problem. This must be something new, or a case by case basis. With my extensive mental illness history now I wonder if I could cross the borders again.

[IndieVisible]

Very disturbing indeed! How ironic when the border patrol was asked how they knew about her 2012 hospitalization they declined to comment because of privacy laws. Just outrageous!

[IndieVisible]

Originally Posted by dillpickle1983

Wow, that's crazy. I had documented mental illness when I was a flight attendant, and I was allowed into Canada and vice versus and Mexico with no problem. This must be something new, or a case by case basis. With my extensive mental illness history now I wonder if I could cross the borders again.

Every thing changed after 9-11. Now we have the Homeland Gestapo Security running the show.

[dillpickle1983]

I was a FA from 2007-2009 well after 9/11.

[Sometimes psychotic]

Originally Posted by cybermember

If you are on disability in the U.S., the government already has all your medical info. So it's too late as it's already out there.

Well I think they have to let you back in as a citizen....it's just we have this bizarre standard with people from other countries and so it's only a matter of time until this becomes the norm...it's just a disgrace that we're treating people who are sick and getting professional help like terrorists.

[The_little_didgee]

Yikes. Why the **** do border guards have assess to medical records? This isn't right. Grrrrrrrrrrr!

This also happened in 2011:

Canadians with mental illnesses denied U.S. entry - Canada - CBC News

[Rose76]

Like someone said above, there had to be the cooperation of someone in Canada for U.S. authorities to get the medical record. I'ld like to know exactly how that worked out.

With Canada having a national healthcare system, then I guess the Canadian government can easily see what is going on medically with any Canadian citizen. But to then turn over info to a foreign government with no compelling reason . . . . ? That surprises me.

I like to hear more about how this played out.

Okay, I read didgee's link, and I better understand. It seems that Canadians are being punished for coming from a country where access to mental health care is readily available and used. Truly worrisome individuals can come over from less enlightened countries (I'm thinking of Eastern Europe and the Middle East, just for starters) and perhaps have no psych history because their countries don't have great health care infra-structures. It's backwards.

Weird. I've never been stopped.

[The_little_didgee]

I just heard Ontario's privacy commissioner is going to investigate this.

OHIP's electronic medical records are supposed to be secure and accessed only by medical professionals, not border guards.

Privacy is slowly eroding.

[venusss]

Okay, I read didgee's link, and I better understand. It seems that Canadians are being punished for coming from a country where access to mental health care is readily available and used. Truly worrisome individuals can come over from less enlightened countries (I'm thinking of Eastern Europe and the Middle East, just for starters) and perhaps have no psych history because their countries don't have great health care infra-structures. It's backwards.

What is wrong with Eastern Europeans? Or middle easterners? One is born somewhere, just like they are born "crazy".

*feels somewhat offended by this*

[The_little_didgee]

Originally Posted by VenusHalley

What is wrong with Eastern Europeans? Or middle easterners? One is born somewhere, just like they are born "crazy".

Nothing. You misinterpreted the post.

[venusss]

Just that I had a share of custom officers holding my passport in two fingers like it was contagious, been searched and called "comunist", because of being Eastie. So worry not, MI is not the only reason people get harrassed for on the borders.

And now imagine you are a crazy Eastie. Yes, there's shrinks and MH system in former Eastern Bloc... or Middle East. So people from there may have such record as well. Plus those kinky passports from hard to spell countries (my country has nothing to do the checks, thank you very much).

[Rose76]

Originally Posted by VenusHalley

What is wrong with Eastern Europeans? Or middle easterners? One is born somewhere, just like they are born "crazy".

*feels somewhat offended by this*

I do not assume that coming from Eastern Europe, or the Middle East makes anyone more likely to have mental health issues than coming from anywhere else. I do admit that I was under the impression that the healthcare infrastructure in those areas of the world was not the best. Maybe I'm wrong on that.

So I just did some on-line research to see if I am wrong. (See links below.) From what I've read . . . I am not wrong. Here is a sample of my reading: The Dying Breed - Healthcare in Eastern Europe
Mental health care still poor in eastern Europe : The Lancet

My point was that a person suffering from a serious mental health issue might be less likely to get appropriate support in dealing with that, if the person came from Eastern Europe, or the Middle East.

We in the USA are looking to improve our own healthcare infrastructure, which is not the best in the world. We look to see what other countries are doing that seems to be working. I haven't heard anyone saying, "Gee, too bad we couldn't be more like Eastern Europe." Here is another relevant link: Mental health in post-communist countries | BMJ

None of this is a slander against the very good people of Eastern Europe. It is just a recognition of the problems that come out of the history of that region, which is a very troubled history. At least that's what the people who've lived there tend to say.

[venusss]

My point was that a person suffering from a serious mental health issue might be less likely to get appropriate support in dealing with that, if the person came from Eastern Europe, or the Middle East.

okay, I get what you mean.

But I do not think that recieving or not recieving treatment has any impact on how the person is.

But honestly? One of the reasons I stay OUT the MH system is cause I don't wanna be kept OUT of countries when I travel.



And well, have the US visa questionaier is stupidly lolzy.

[Rose76]

But I do not think that recieving or not recieving treatment has any impact on how the person is.

originally posted by VenusHalley

If you're saying that being treated for depression, as the Canadian woman cited was, should not be seen as an indication that the person is a possible hostile, dangerous visitor, I would totally agree.

On the other hand, we have had some terrible things done in the USA by persons with serious mental health issues who seem not to have had appropriate help in dealing with their distress. They happen to have been natives to the U.S. (As I said, our healthcare infrastructure is not the boast of the world, particularly in terms of "access.")

[venusss]

On the other hand, we have had some terrible things done in the USA by persons with serious mental health issues who seem not to have had appropriate help in dealing with their distress. They happen to have been natives to the U.S. (As I said, our healthcare infrastructure is not the boast of the world, particularly in terms of "access.")

If you are refering to the shooters... some of them were receiving "help" or on psychmeds.

So I stand by my point. (not receiving help and not dangerous).

[Rose76]

Some people who get psychiatric help are dangerous and remain so, even after being put on meds and given counseling.

Some people who have distressing mental health issues and do not get any help are still not necessarily a danger to anyone.

So whether a person is getting psych treatment, or not, can't be taken as an indication of whether or not the person is dangerous.

I don't think any of the posters on this tread have said otherwise. Nor have I.

Possibly, there are some disturbed people who are dangerous and who might be less dangerous, if they did get appropriate psychiatric care. I think this might be true of some people with psychotic conditions who become out of touch with reality. (I'm not saying that being psychotic necessarily makes a person dangerous. It makes some people dangerous.)

[venusss]

But you can still go psychotic all of sudden or go psychotic when you are treated... so I really see no relevance to this when entering the country. It's a hassle as it is.

[Rose76]

Getting psychiatric treatment is no guarantee that a dangerous person will no longer be dangerous. I think we are both saying that.

Getting psychiatric treatment is no more an indication that a person is dangerous than not getting psychiatric treatment. I think that is what everyone on this thread agrees. That's why it seems so unfair that the Canadian lady in the linked article got denied entry.

What I was pointing out is that some dangerous people might be less of a danger if they did get psychiatric treatment. So that makes discrimination against people who have gotten treatment even more silly.

[venusss]

Well, some studies say some psychmeds make you more prone to violence... hence why I see it as totally irrelavent as indicator of person's danger. And we don't wanna any discrimination based on "non-compliance" with the treatment.

I am saying it's unfair. It's actually kinda funny (in effed up way) that one is denied entrance to Prozac Nation based on MH issues.

But the US has been paranoid for some times.

[Rose76]

I totally agree that it's unfair.