[alpot]

My 16 yr old on Latuda and Zoloft is adamant that he is going to be the next Edgar Allen Poe. So here's an excerpt from his latest "Works".

Is this a poem/word salad/loose connection?. I can't tell. I've told him it's a poem, but I'm seeing signs of unorganized thougt? or maybe I'm making too much out of this?

Violet Garden
-------------

Brambles and bushes,
I crawl through
To reach a forbidden
Land, binded by truth
Through mazes of apricots,
And fields of bloom,
I climbed one-hundred
Mountains, to see this tomb
A horror, a massacre, of
Endless corposes,
Organized neatly
To meet her golden touch
A pool of blood, a stream
Of sorrow, spite and vain
And no tomorrow
Too soon, or too late?
I could not see, tell,
Or know this truth
But I see that truth
Is hidden past all the
Dark deeds
That have occured, in this
Vast garden, with a violet
Shade of time, over it,
And violet flowers and
A purple atmosphere, the
Clouds were fluffy, and decent
And the curtains of time, rippled
And opened, to what seemed like
A cryptic temple
It lied there, in time
Abandoned, a wind of lonliness
Blew through the threshold
And the stench of greed
Emitted from the pits of glory,
Tarnishing the once corrupted
Gory, nasty, place at large.
It was a fine, elegant maneuver
The temple had simple architecture
And darkness loomed outside, in
An abnormal and unnatural manner.
What was more odd,
Though
Was how the sky glowed a ruby
Red, the closer you got to the grounds
of the temple, it was a faint, seen
Hopefully an illusion, but this was
Likely, a beautiful nightmare
So it doesn't count.
I entered the temple,
A menacing growl
Erupted from behind a large, stone door
It seemed impetrable, like some force
Was holding an untamable beast
Awaiting to break free
Of this evil prison,
The temple grew dark,
The stain-glass windows shadowed,
With darkening smoke, dust and ash,
Covered the walls.
The purple carpet was red at first
And the truth broke free with blood
At thirst.

Originally Posted by alpot

My 16 yr old on Latuda and Zoloft is adamant that he is going to be the next Edgar Allen Poe. So here's an excerpt from his latest "Works".

Is this a poem/word salad/loose connection?. I can't tell. I've told him it's a poem, but I'm seeing signs of unorganized thougt? or maybe I'm making too much out of this?

Violet Garden
-------------

Brambles and bushes,
I crawl through
To reach a forbidden
Land, binded by truth
Through mazes of apricots,
And fields of bloom,
I climbed one-hundred
Mountains, to see this tomb
A horror, a massacre, of
Endless corposes,
Organized neatly
To meet her golden touch
A pool of blood, a stream
Of sorrow, spite and vain
And no tomorrow
Too soon, or too late?
I could not see, tell,
Or know this truth
But I see that truth
Is hidden past all the
Dark deeds
That have occured, in this
Vast garden, with a violet
Shade of time, over it,
And violet flowers and
A purple atmosphere, the
Clouds were fluffy, and decent
And the curtains of time, rippled
And opened, to what seemed like
A cryptic temple
It lied there, in time
Abandoned, a wind of lonliness
Blew through the threshold
And the stench of greed
Emitted from the pits of glory,
Tarnishing the once corrupted
Gory, nasty, place at large.
It was a fine, elegant maneuver
The temple had simple architecture
And darkness loomed outside, in
An abnormal and unnatural manner.
What was more odd,
Though
Was how the sky glowed a ruby
Red, the closer you got to the grounds
of the temple, it was a faint, seen
Hopefully an illusion, but this was
Likely, a beautiful nightmare
So it doesn't count.
I entered the temple,
A menacing growl
Erupted from behind a large, stone door
It seemed impetrable, like some force
Was holding an untamable beast
Awaiting to break free
Of this evil prison,
The temple grew dark,
The stain-glass windows shadowed,
With darkening smoke, dust and ash,
Covered the walls.
The purple carpet was red at first
And the truth broke free with blood
At thirst.

Its in the medium of art , it would be entirely different if he was using this type language to communicate in every day terms. Why would you tell him that this is disorganised though , is he becoming sympthomatic otherwise?

[kaliope]

I don't know if you want to take this as good or bad...lol...but it seems fairly organized to me...sounds like many of the poems I read here on pc

[Sometimes psychotic]

Loose connections is more like this. Word salad, did you know salad tongs are really handy. I have two hands...the handle to the door is needed to open it. Did you see the US open last week? That guy looks weak he is so skinny. My skin is very pale....I used to have a pail at the beach....beached whales are sad....sad(students against drugs) is one of my favorite clubs....seals get clubbed....I got a seal of approval at school today...fish swim in schools...I like tuna best....best buy had a special on laptops....my cat really likes sitting in my lap.....babysitting is a good way to make money...etc basically it's confusing words with dual meanings or that even sound somewhat alike.

Word salad sounds like a sentence but doesn't make sense...it's not an attempt at poetry but an attempt at communication that does sound poetic at times. I'm going to give to a try but it's not one of the symptoms I had so it might not be the most accurate representation....

I went a field of yellow birds flying purple grass water rushing sandals music dinner softly mowing triangular phrases.

[Atypical_Disaster]

Word salad and loose associations... ah I am very familiar with this topic as it was one of my symptoms when I was very psychotic.

For me personally it went like this:

Words flying around the equation of time beyond the zone known shown grown. Everything is nothing but the wind over the see beyond the sound round found across the board bored I need feed do it with something time. Over the crossroads you will bill find the meaning raining time this runs no boundless energy flowing around the hear there nowhere.

(I wrote that while psychotic.)

Originally Posted by Materly

Its in the medium of art , it would be entirely different if he was using this type language to communicate in every day terms. Why would you tell him that this is disorganised though , is he becoming sympthomatic otherwise?

Have a look at the poetry of gerald manley hopkins .

Dont get me wrong im very much a realist, if your son is obsessing then it cant be good for his condition , but if its a fleeting thing , it could be just a way to express rather than make obvious sense , like art therapy.

[Sometimes psychotic]

Originally Posted by Atypical_Disaster

Word salad and loose associations... ah I am very familiar with this topic as it was one of my symptoms when I was very psychotic.

For me personally it went like this:

Words flying around the equation of time beyond the zone known shown grown. Everything is nothing but the wind over the see beyond the sound round found across the board bored I need feed do it with something time. Over the crossroads you will bill find the meaning raining time this runs no boundless energy flowing around the hear there nowhere.

(I wrote that while psychotic.)

Thanks AD for providing a real example....

[costello]

It doesn't look like word salad or loose associations to me. It looks like a poem.

[costello]

Elyn Saks has an example of loose associations in her book The Center Cannot Hold and in her TED talk: http://www.ted.com/talks/elyn_saks_s...mental_illness

Derailment (thought disorder) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I remember watching my son being evaluated for a hospitalization once. He was asked a question, and he began to answer on a seemingly unrelated topic. I thought, "Uh oh, he's off on a tangent." Then a couple of minutes later, after I'd forgotten the original question, he brought his narrative back around and responded to the question. And the whole thing made absolute sense. From the first sentence he was responding, and he never wandered off topic at all.

[Side note about my son which you may or may not find interesting: My son just has an obsessive need to lay the whole groundwork to anything he says. Frankly it's because he has a habit of telling stories and leaving out important details, so his listener can't follow or understand what he's saying. In reaction, he's taken to giving way too many details. Unfortunately it tends to make people stop listening to him, because he's talking too long and giving too much detail. That's frustrating to him, because he's defeated his own goal - to communicate - by turning off his listener.]

My point is to be careful applying these terms to your son unless you're an expert at recognizing them. It's very, very easy to write off everything a mentally ill person does or says as nonsense. Trust me. Been there, done that. Even the professionals do it. It's a hurtful and damaging thing to do. I always start with the assumption that what my son is saying makes sense if I'll just listen thoroughly. I'm seldom wrong about that. He needs to be listened to with respect. When he's stressed, he sometimes makes no sense at first. When he realizes his listener is going to stay with him and make an effort understand, he calms and becomes clearer.

[kenshin99]

Poetry has become a hobby of mine and helped with my treatment. I have read a lot of poetry and experienced word salad. This seems well thought out and seems to run smoothly to me. It seems descriptive and and like there was a plan. Maybe i think in a word salad i don't know but to me this is a good poem.

[lil-angel-wings]

It makes sense to me. I think it is a good poem.

[alpot]

The similarities between your son's symptoms and what my son is showing continue to amaze me!. You are right about the excessive detail part. He has to back up every statement with some justification, in the event that I don't believe what he is saying. It could be a simple fear of being misinterpreted and hence the constant need to make your position clear all the time.

Originally Posted by costello

Elyn Saks has an example of loose associations in her book The Center Cannot Hold and in her TED talk: Elyn Saks: A tale of mental illness -- from the inside | Talk Video | TED.com

Derailment (thought disorder) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I remember watching my son being evaluated for a hospitalization once. He was asked a question, and he began to answer on a seemingly unrelated topic. I thought, "Uh oh, he's off on a tangent." Then a couple of minutes later, after I'd forgotten the original question, he brought his narrative back around and responded to the question. And the whole thing made absolute sense. From the first sentence he was responding, and he never wandered off topic at all.

[Side note about my son which you may or may not find interesting: My son just has an obsessive need to lay the whole groundwork to anything he says. Frankly it's because he has a habit of telling stories and leaving out important details, so his listener can't follow or understand what he's saying. In reaction, he's taken to giving way too many details. Unfortunately it tends to make people stop listening to him, because he's talking too long and giving too much detail. That's frustrating to him, because he's defeated his own goal - to communicate - by turning off his listener.]

My point is to be careful applying these terms to your son unless you're an expert at recognizing them. It's very, very easy to write off everything a mentally ill person does or says as nonsense. Trust me. Been there, done that. Even the professionals do it. It's a hurtful and damaging thing to do. I always start with the assumption that what my son is saying makes sense if I'll just listen thoroughly. I'm seldom wrong about that. He needs to be listened to with respect. When he's stressed, he sometimes makes no sense at first. When he realizes his listener is going to stay with him and make an effort understand, he calms and becomes clearer.

[costello]

Originally Posted by alpot

The similarities between your son's symptoms and what my son is showing continue to amaze me!. You are right about the excessive detail part. He has to back up every statement with some justification, in the event that I don't believe what he is saying. It could be a simple fear of being misinterpreted and hence the constant need to make your position clear all the time.

Yep. There are definite similarities.

It sounds like you're an intelligent and caring parent. I'm really glad you're working so hard to understand your son. I think that alone will help him in the long run.

[Lillybird90]

I am really into poetry this just seems like a very good poem to me he is talented I would say.Sometimes poems use words together that are supposed to reflect an image in your mind edgar allan poes poems sometimes might not make sense to some people because you have to think about the meaning behind the words to get the point that hes trying to put across.Its not word salad.poetry is both a art and a science that you have to be familiar with for it to make sense.I could say something like this,The sun is going down it burns red like the autumn leaves upon the rustling ground the wind is howling like a thousand ghosts my face feels cool from their icy hands as they brush by my face.basically these words are to set a surreal image in your mind that its a fall evening the sun is going down there is a cool breeze going by and there are leaves on the ground.the bit about the ghosts is to reflect about how the chilly breeze is sending shivers through the person.its all about imagination and perspective.your mind is the canvas and the words are painting the picture on it.

[Lillybird90]

here is one I wrote when I was young and going through My Edgar allan poe phase lol
I was 16 going on 17 when I wrote this.

is this how it ends? Come Let Darkness put an end to endevoring grace
and send it to a dark and silent place were sorrow is the only one who shows
its face where there never is a tomorrow oh sorrow it cries out loud and covers
you in a shroud of burning lace and even if YOU could survive the deadly
wines it still wouldnt take away the fear from sorrows solemn minds! so flee
to dark corners were you think your free but only find more MISERY!come back
to me my dear brother we shall burn and learn fears that no other mortal shall see
a Face you have never seen before!! so enter the CHAMBER door and step over my bloody body on the floor so you wont fall into darkness to be seen never more! in cells of darkness only the damned can tell the stories of the misery of hell...they know what real misery is none forget after they have been burned in this damned place!! so let darkness put an end to endeavoring grace and cover you with your well deserved shroud of Disgrace! oh darkness covers your soul alas i hear deaths bell tole for thee! run away only to be overpowered by your Misery I see a fire burning in the night its so bright it finds the darkest candle in your heart put it on fire tear your heart apart bleeding Bright this light Bleeding so bright it sets you Ablaze for all to gaze at your pain for all to see. Bleeding Bright through the night this dark horrid torture this dark light Burning bright inside you Can NOT escape there is no place to Hide this light burns Bright BLEEDING inside!! eternally burning for all to see internal pain INFERNAL BURNING shall not stop!! BURNING MISERY!!! so you wanna make it stop?? to make it go away? you cant take the pain YOU SAY!! RIPPING AT YOUR FEAR tear after tear RIPPING AT YOUR SOUL tearing a hole in your heart ripping YOU APART!!!!! gun shots fired at the head of the dead of night a horrid bloody sight a blood stained body laying on the ground dead silence not even a sound.... your body lays on the ground as it decays Yes you put an end to your pain ...you were stained and now you body lay out for all to see but still haunted you will never end your misery.... Haunting your grave you will be forever lost now you learn that pain shall fallow you even to your grave no one can save you now.....no now no one can save you..


See its kind of like a horror story only its in verse I was into a lot of Edgar allan poe during this time and read all of his poems and stories I can see reflections of His style in your sons poem as well as my own.