[Katieissweet]

Does any else gain knowledge from their "Hallucinations" as in hallucinatory knowledge.

I was reading a book called the cosmic serpent by Jeremy narby and it discussed how the native shamans gain all their botanical knowledge of which plants heal and cure you from their hallucinations,that pharmaceutical companies later use.

my hallucinations/visions are fractured and alternating but as real as anything else you've ever seen in your daily life.when I was given pills to stop the hallucinations I dreamt days later that my "vision had been murdered"

hallucinatory knowledge is the wonderful idea that hallucinations have value and knowing,that there are other forms and ways of accessing knowledge.I've learnt hundreds of things from my episodes,knowledge about all manner of mysterious things will come to me in a tumbling way that doesn't fit in a tidy western frame or order,knowledge of the deep ancient past,knowledge from mythology,all sorts of weird iconography,symbolism and little secrets of the world ,come like they do for the shaman.

It's only in western culture that I'm a schizophrenic in my great grandmothers line I'm just an amiqurra (shamaness) I gain knowledge a different way through dreams and visions.

Why do we assume knowledge can only be gained from traditional alphabetic literacy that relys strongly on the left hemisphere of the brain only instead of the right,in the form of structured books and systemised science.

To give you a little example of what I mean I dreamt maybe nine years ago that I was in an isolated German village I was told that if I caught the plane back into time I'd be in Poland - the notion was that I was German but my deeper roots were polish ,I got this knowledge by having a sleep.

Six years later I took a DNA test - my results were overwhelmingly polish I had markers and repeats(DNA code) only found in polish populations this same knowledge required and relied on decades of funding,science and molecular biology.

two very different roads to exactly the same conclusion,can other things be gained from this second road.

Do you ever gain wisdom or knowledge from your visions as scary as they can be?

Hello Katieissweet: Thank you for sharing this perspective with regard to the discovery of knowledge. It's easy, in our technological age, to tumble to the idea that nothing exists except the nuts-&-bolts of day-to-day life. So it's good to be reminded this is not necessarily always the case. I don't personally have any hallucinations, & not even many useful dreams. So I can't share your insight with regard to their value. However, I'm glad to hear that you are able to derive benefit from them rather than to just be scared.

[Katieissweet]

Here is some more info on the importance of dreams and visions

Native way of knowledge. Spiritual Visions and Dreams

http://www3.brandonu.ca/library/cjns/13.2/goulet.pdf
" in such societies one often finds well-developed traditions for inducing visions and/or lucid dreaming, traditions that are available to individuals as part of their social development.1 Such traditions seem incompatible with the ethnographer's own society's low tolerance of fantasies and of the primary thought processes in general. Hence the reticence of ethnographers to cross over to others and “enter with them into dream- land, for to do so is to venture beyond the confines of civilized man,” into a realm of experiences which white men tend to hide in asylums.

, “the empirical and logical rationality that defines knowledge as knowledge of fact” is a rationality that is not hospitable to “the insights of art, religion, fantasy, or dream.”

I will interpret for you in plain language what he is saying,he says that in other societies visions and dreams are not suppressed or discarded but valued and infact encouraged and desired because they inform,that it is only here in our society that people with visions are locked into asylums.

we only value linear,left brained thinking,but Dreams and visions are the sphere of the right hemisphere(logic and order are of the left) so you see only one side of the brain is attributed to knowledge and the other is ignored and suppressed and infact locked up.

Dreams and Visions

Dream vision - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[SmileHere]

Interesting!

I don't remember that much of what my voices told me, it was in the context of seeking for world peace and a narrative that would help make a 'peace treaty' between different religions. Shamanism and 'totem' culture and such played a role too.

'A big bird spirit' from America (not sure if North or Latin) was happy that there was a bird (= symbol of Holy Spirit in Christianity) high up on the ceiling of our catholic church too. And I realized many symbols of 'previous beliefs' were incorporated into Christianity/Catholic churches and books especially.

A 'voice' of Native American from US once told me (I thought it was via telepathy) to use 'tea tree oil for protection', and I put some on my chest (though not sure how wise that was, cause I read undilluted tea tree oil can cause hallucinations too?)

Spirits (and people) from all over the world were interested in good profitable eco projects and world peace and such...

So it was little bits of wisdom and ideas, nothing so direct as your Polish ancestry - to which I can only say, Wow! for both interpreting it that way and finding it was correct.

Did your grandmother teach you how to interpret dreams and such?

I think native shamans get a lot of wisdom/knowledge from their ancestors/mentors too. Did you watch Sacred Science? The Sacred Science - Free Online Screening
This is the first time I hear they get knowledge of plants by 'dreaming' too..

[Ms.Beeblebrox]

Hi everyone,

I am not schizophrenic or psychotic myself, so can not speak from experience, but I did have a long and serious manic episode once, so I did go through an altered state of consciousness. I am very interested in the mechanisms of psychosis and I read this forum and publications on the topic a lot.

As far as I understand, people do not get committed for having dreams and visions. Many people hear voices daily and still never get committed or diagnosed with psychotic disorders. In my understanding the key to differentiation between healthy and pathological is level of functioning. If a person can go about their life without much disruption from visions, voices and premonitions, he will not be given any diagnosis and most likely won't seek treatment at all.

But if those visions overwhelm you to the point of not being able to lead functional life, then they need to be addressed by professional.

Again, just my understanding of the matter, I do not claim to be an expert on the topic.

[SmileHere]

Hey Ms. B!

Good to see you here! Official psychiatry would probably agree with you. In fact, it was said to me by a psychiatrist, 'You can go back to being a medium, once you're fully functional' (I thought I was talking to spirits, still not sure what it was)
I had no idea how to go about it either. Only later learnt some general tips online.

Thing is, in traditional communities where they still have shamans and such, people get trained to deal with such states.. if one is untrained and doesn't have a clue what one is doing, well, it can get disruptive.. Consider watching trailer for Crazywise, the documentary. And there are some accompanying videos on YouTube. For many shamans/medicine men/oracles, it began as 'psychosis' and they only later learnt to not let it get 'disruptive' - through help of a mentor or grandparent or such

As for hallucinatory knowledge, one part from my final 'disruptive' 'psychosis'/vision did come true, as I later found out. Again, at the time I thought it was 'telepathy', later realized it was probably a 'vision' and to be taken in a metaphoric sense... I'm thinking maybe it got 'disruptive' because I fell into anger/'revenge' mode - any thoughts on this, Katie? There are probably 'rules' and 'tips' for trance-like states, it's probably better to steer clear of 'negative' emotions?

And from a 'scientific' point of view, maybe the myelin sheaths or dopamine receptors or other parts of the brain got under 'stress' of negative emotions (or previous inadequate nutrition, stress etc) and went into overdrive/caused an 'extreme'/disruptive state and occasional breaks with reality?
I'm just guessing... Apparently fasting or thirsting can also induce trance-like state, and I don't know if I was drinking water much/eating much that day...

[Katieissweet]

Not true,I was locked up for saying I saw a man,that's all for saying I saw a man.you are woefully incorrect ,what's happening today in these horrible places where youre silenced into total submission and injected or medicated (total brain control) is not different from the witch hunts and murders in the 16th century.
At that time all those "wise women" and men and anyone who practiced or believed in anything supernatural that wasn't in the Christian doctrine was killed or tortured,now we have the scientific doctrine instead and if you believe anything outside it you'll be locked up and medicated.

Originally Posted by Ms.Beeblebrox

Hi everyone,

I am not schizophrenic or psychotic myself, so can not speak from experience, but I did have a long and serious manic episode once, so I did go through an altered state of consciousness. I am very interested in the mechanisms of psychosis and I read this forum and publications on the topic a lot.

As far as I understand, people do not get committed for having dreams and visions. Many people hear voices daily and still never get committed or diagnosed with psychotic disorders. In my understanding the key to differentiation between healthy and pathological is level of functioning. If a person can go about their life without much disruption from visions, voices and premonitions, he will not be given any diagnosis and most likely won't seek treatment at all.

But if those visions overwhelm you to the point of not being able to lead functional life, then they need to be addressed by professional.

Again, just my understanding of the matter, I do not claim to be an expert on the topic.

[Ms.Beeblebrox]

I'm really sorry you went through that. That should have been very traumatizing for you!

I personally never had such experience (thank God!). I didn't hallucinate though, but I did say some pretty strange things to my pdoc when I just started seeing him. I think it depends a lot on you treatment providers. If they really cared for your wellbeing they wouldn't commit you for just saying you saw a man.

By law, you can be involuntary committed only if you are a threat to yourself or/and others. If you were not a threat, I would submit an official complaint, if I were you. Hope you did.

Originally Posted by Katieissweet

Not true,I was locked up for saying I saw a man,that's all for saying I saw a man.you are woefully incorrect ,what's happening today in these horrible places where youre silenced into total submission and injected or medicated (total brain control) is not different from the witch hunts and murders in the 16th century.
At that time all those "wise women" and men and anyone who practiced or believed in anything supernatural that wasn't in the Christian doctrine was killed or tortured,now we have the scientific doctrine instead and if you believe anything outside it you'll be locked up and medicated.

[Katieissweet]

How do they know whether you're a threat, there was a woman on here who was locked up and handcuffed because she said she saw her dead father,it's a complete joke.