[Sometimes psychotic]

So I've been watching practicing mindfulness an introduction to meditation by Mark Muesse. He came up with 4 R's that remind me a lot of cbt/dbt.

The idea is you have thoughts that are negative or otherwise bad and get rid of them using the 4 R's.

They are as follows...replacement, reflection, redirection and reconstruction.

Replacing is just swapping out a negative thought for a positive. So let's say someone cuts you off in traffic instead of flipping them off you're supposed to replace it with something friendly or compassionate so maybe I'm sure they're running late perhaps there is an emergency or something else forgiving.

Reflection...the idea is you think about your thoughts themselves this is meta cognition. Do you want to be the kind of person who thinks the kind of thoughts that you are having or would you rather be different/better.

Redirection is just distraction this is the typical cbt/dbt technique where you do other things that you like better..in meditation you simply refocus on the breath.

Reconstruction is a lot like what we did in cbt for delusions.....so in reflection you think about consequences of the thought but in reconstruction you think of what lead to the thought and you can challenge those assumptions.

Anyway hope this helps someone....mindfulness has been shown to help with psychosis specifically.

[CANDC]

Thanks for sharing that. I use mindfulness as a way to stay in balance.

[junkDNA]

my T s degree is actually in contemplative psychotherapy with incorporates eastern traditions with western psychology. i think mindfulness is important and it has helped me with my psychosis. thanks for posting these i hope others find it helpful!

Originally Posted by Sometimes psychotic

So I've been watching practicing mindfulness an introduction to meditation by Mark Muesse. He came up with 4 R's that remind me a lot of cbt/dbt.

The idea is you have thoughts that are negative or otherwise bad and get rid of them using the 4 R's.

They are as follows...replacement, reflection, redirection and reconstruction.

Replacing is just swapping out a negative thought for a positive. So let's say someone cuts you off in traffic instead of flipping them off you're supposed to replace it with something friendly or compassionate so maybe I'm sure they're running late perhaps there is an emergency or something else forgiving.

Reflection...the idea is you think about your thoughts themselves this is meta cognition. Do you want to be the kind of person who thinks the kind of thoughts that you are having or would you rather be different/better.

Redirection is just distraction this is the typical cbt/dbt technique where you do other things that you like better..in meditation you simply refocus on the breath.

Reconstruction is a lot like what we did in cbt for delusions.....so in reflection you think about consequences of the thought but in reconstruction you think of what lead to the thought and you can challenge those assumptions.

Anyway hope this helps someone....mindfulness has been shown to help with psychosis specifically.

Just on mindfulness I think it has a place in helping problems. But people always move towards , dogma , procedure , rules based systems so they can package it so people 'understand' it. And this it seems is normal. To do something a person usually asks 'what should I do' or 'what steps must I perform' to complete a task. In fairness if someone wants to sell something they need to package it in a manner so that the consumer feels like the product or service 'does' something. Mindfulness for me , is just coming into the present moment and when it makes a judgement on how a person should act or behave then its defeating the purpose. Its just my opinion SP , it maybe right or wrong . good luck

[Sometimes psychotic]

Originally Posted by Materly

Just on mindfulness I think it has a place in helping problems. But people always move towards , dogma , procedure , rules based systems so they can package it so people 'understand' it. And this it seems is normal. To do something a person usually asks 'what should I do' or 'what steps must I perform' to complete a task. In fairness if someone wants to sell something they need to package it in a manner so that the consumer feels like the product or service 'does' something. Mindfulness for me , is just coming into the present moment and when it makes a judgement on how a person should act or behave then its defeating the purpose. Its just my opinion SP , it maybe right or wrong . good luck

In the early stages of mindfulness coming to the present moment is all that's offered....this guy has studied many years and there is something beyond that....rather than dismissing all your thoughts that pop up you can cultivate them enhancing the positive and using these four tools to get rid of the negative. Personally I'd rather have positive thoughts than a blank mind.

Originally Posted by Sometimes psychotic

In the early stages of mindfulness coming to the present moment is all that's offered....this guy has studied many years and there is something beyond that....rather than dismissing all your thoughts that pop up you can cultivate them enhancing the positive and using these four tools to get rid of the negative. Personally I'd rather have positive thoughts than a blank mind.

Yeah that would be ideal , I know that wouldn't work for me. Everyone is different though I get that. But to give you an idea what i m talking about , I was in my local book shop recently and there was a book called the mindfulness of silence( or something like that) , I thought silence and mindfulness , it could make sense. And then I scan read the book , and it spoke about embracing silence , looking for silence , expoused listening as if it was a religion. And I thought for a schizophrenic , this would be a harmful book , a load of clap trap , and where a sz should be encouraged to express , articulate and communicate , here was a book , if in the hands of a sz , would be no good for him/her.

[Sometimes psychotic]

Originally Posted by Materly

Yeah that would be ideal , I know that wouldn't work for me. Everyone is different though I get that. But to give you an idea what i m talking about , I was in my local book shop recently and there was a book called the mindfulness of silence( or something like that) , I thought silence and mindfulness , it could make sense. And then I scan read the book , and it spoke about embracing silence , looking for silence , expoused listening as if it was a religion. And I thought for a schizophrenic , this would be a harmful book , a load of clap trap , and where a sz should be encouraged to express , articulate and communicate , here was a book , if in the hands of a sz , would be no good for him/her.

Yeah I think we're already there as far as the silence part---this is part of a meditative practice and not just mindfulness and tbh I can't sit still long enough to meditate but I can see how the principles involved in controlling thoughts could be helpful and it struck me how like cbt they were and how it would likely be easier to remember the 4 R's even if I have to write them on a card. Anyway your mileage may vary but these techniques really mirror what I was taught in cbt for psychosis so I don't think they would be harmful.

All right, hope it works out. If you find a technique that works , all the better.

Mindfulness seems to me to be against trying to control your thoughts. At least that's how I understand it from my study of Acceptance & Commitment Therapy. My ACT teacher was very clear that attempting to control thoughts and feelings would only cause more problems, and that has been my experience. I've spent my whole life trying to stuff away unpleasant thoughts and feelings, but they resurfaced almost 8 years ago as whatever-this-is. In ACT they talk about 'clean pain' and 'dirty pain': clean pain is just regular physical/mental pain, but dirty pain is clean pain + suffering (suffering is struggling against the pain by trying to control it).

I find mindfulness very tricky when it involves awareness of physical sensations in my body, and not judging my thoughts, but very easy and helpful about noticing external things in the environment. I have not been able to meditate either for the same reasons.

*Willow*

[Sometimes psychotic]

Originally Posted by WeepingWillow23

Mindfulness seems to me to be against trying to control your thoughts. At least that's how I understand it from my study of Acceptance & Commitment Therapy. My ACT teacher was very clear that attempting to control thoughts and feelings would only cause more problems, and that has been my experience. I've spent my whole life trying to stuff away unpleasant thoughts and feelings, but they resurfaced almost 8 years ago as whatever-this-is. In ACT they talk about 'clean pain' and 'dirty pain': clean pain is just regular physical/mental pain, but dirty pain is clean pain + suffering (suffering is struggling against the pain by trying to control it).

I find mindfulness very tricky when it involves awareness of physical sensations in my body, and not judging my thoughts, but very easy and helpful about noticing external things in the environment. I have not been able to meditate either for the same reasons.

*Willow*

So that's why I think this is more like cbt than act.....basically this guy did all the focus on the breath if you have a thought let it go stuff but this was supposed to occur only after you learned to just let the thoughts pass. I'm not sure there really is a formal definition for mindfulness vs other meditation....anyway I think the key thing isn't whether it's mindfulness or not but whether it helps you get where you want to go and it looks really helpful to me, I need to make up a card....

Originally Posted by Sometimes psychotic

anyway I think the key thing isn't whether it's mindfulness or not but whether it helps you get where you want to go and it looks really helpful to me, I need to make up a card....

Very true. I hope you find it helpful

*Willow*

Thanks for posting these. I've been attempting mindfulness on and off over the past few months. You've explained it very clearly and it's easy to understand. Thanks