Years ago in hospital i was sat on the toilet in the ward, & i had a deep & clear realisation that i was Jesus. i challenged it all & decided that i wasn't.

During my first episode for a short while i also had the same experience for an afternoon. i have at various times believed that i am the reincarnation of St Paul, the Creator of the Universe, the Devil & the anti-Christ. There has been a lot of religious themed delusions.

i was raised with quite a religious upbringing in Christianity.

The past 10 years i have been relatively stable on a medication. i have tried to 'de-program' from religious thinking & instead focus on spirituality & in working through a lot of the delusional thinking & experiences.

Hard to put a lot of all this into words. For quite a few years i keep getting thoughts/feelings that i'm Jesus - i can challenge it all, entertain & play with it all, & put it all into different perspectives. i don't think it is literally true.

i read this the other day -

The Expected One

i think it's very good little web site - It really resonated with me. Going with the more archetypal, symbolic, metaphorical, mythological & other understandings, maybe we all have aspects of Christ consciousness?

'He was despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows and familiar with suffering. Like one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not.' - Bible NIV

And in Islam, in the Nahjul Balagha, the Imam Mahdi is so described...

He, in the beginning, will be like a poor stranger unknown and uncared for, and Islam then will be in the hopeless and helpless plight of an exhausted camel who has laid down its head and is wagging its tail. With such a start he will establish an empire of God in this world. He will be the final demonstration and proof of God's merciful wish to acquaint man with the right ways of life. " - Khutba 187

These passages seem to portray an unlikely candidate for Messiahship. A despised social outcast goes on to save the world and bring about peace on Earth. However, if we assume that everyone has the spirit of the Messiah within them and that potentially we may all help to save the world, then these prophesies may be better understood in a symbolic way. That is, these passages are describing a process of separation and alienation that often accompanies the spiritual journey and mystical quest. The process by which a person is transformed from a normal and mundane state of being, into one of the mythological and god like, will often and perhaps inevitably involve a phase of isolation and relative solitude. During this time of social withdrawal, the relationship between the spiritual aspirant or the would be Messiah, and his or her fellow human beings, may be one of either unilateral or mutual disdain, perhaps even hostility. We see this time and time again in the spiritual and mystical literature.

What are other people's thoughts on all these areas? Religious themes are obviously very common within psychosis & schizophrenia, especially the delusion/idea that 'we' are a Holy figure/god, part of a Holy family, on a Divine mission etc.

From a more psychiatric view there is an immense grandiosity with such a belief. An immense ego inflation of self importance. How much is it an ego/identification problem?

There are some popular ideas, touched on in the above article that the 'return of a World saviour/Maitreya/Christ' will be a collective shift in consciousness - the lifting of the veil & final revelation.

Hope this thread doesn't break the rules on religious discussion, as the perspective that i want to explore is really the aspect of psychosis/delusion in relation to such beliefs. Thanks. There may of course be no clear answers.

[CANDC]

I think that there are many ego traps. From what we have of quotes from Jesus, he may have warned us of aggrandizing ourselves.

"If I speak of myself, I speak of a lie."

I am ... is a trap.

"I of my own self am nothing [or no thing]" That could be indicating our qualities of consciousness more than of things.

I am very interested in this topic. As you say

There may of course be no clear answers

But if we can eliminate some of the untrue responses to "Who am I", we may be closer to the truth of who we are than we thought.

Originally Posted by CANDC

I am very interested in this topic. As you say But if we can eliminate some of the untrue responses to "Who am I", we may be closer to the truth of who we are than we thought.

What is/isn't true & who decides?

All the spiritual teachings & enlightenment discourses can't agree on any of it. Some take the pov of no self/emptiness/void - others of god realisation (everyone is God), others of Monadic & other levels of Being. The list goes on & on.

Part of me is sick of all the religious/spiritual & associated teachings. & another part can't let it all go with exploring it all.

[Open Eyes]

I think the grandiosity is in thinking one's self is the "all knowing", that is simply not true with anyone, everyone has something we can learn from. I think that is what "If I speak of myself, I speak a lie" is saying. It's discouraging extreme narcissism which is basically living life in "self" and not having the ability to "see and feel/empathize with" others.

[CANDC]

Agree openeyes, empathy is the path out of the trap of selfishness.

[CANDC]

Originally Posted by Apotheosis

What is/isn't true & who decides?

All the spiritual teachings & enlightenment discourses can't agree on any of it. Some take the pov of no self/emptiness/void - others of god realisation (everyone is God), others of Monadic & other levels of Being. The list goes on & on.

Part of me is sick of all the religious/spiritual & associated teachings. & another part can't let it all go with exploring it all.

There is an excess of opinions. Mindfulness is a way out without getting into the religious fray. To me the question is "What works for me?" And follow that way.

Interested in going without opinions to simple acceptance and awareness of what is. Try reading a couple pages:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...92885102,d.b2w

www.arvindguptatoys.com/arvindgupta/zenmind.pdf

[Open Eyes]

Originally Posted by Apotheosis

What is/isn't true & who decides?

All the spiritual teachings & enlightenment discourses can't agree on any of it. Some take the pov of no self/emptiness/void - others of god realisation (everyone is God), others of Monadic & other levels of Being. The list goes on & on.

Part of me is sick of all the religious/spiritual & associated teachings. & another part can't let it all go with exploring it all.

But that is what human beings do, it's normal to being human "searching" and questioning and learning. You don't have to take these different religious or spiritual ideals as fact, you can see what is in each "ideal" and take what is helpful to you.

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

But that is what human beings do, it's normal to being human "searching" and questioning and learning. You don't have to take these different religious or spiritual ideals as fact, you can see what is in each "ideal" and take what is helpful to you.

i do. This is hard to explain. i far from take it all as literal fact, very largely i view everything in terms of myth, symbol, analogy & metaphor, especially the religious/spiritual writings, & anything in the World of form (it's all fingers pointing to the moon) - truth is to me beyond form, words, idea, concept, belief, & mind. In a very general sense i do very much hold to the existence of a source/God, a soul/spirit, & reality of spiritual realms. A lot of religion is based on mythology. i do very much take an integral/holistic view - a synthesis of what makes sense to me.

It's like the whole fields of psychiatry, psychology & mental health in general, & i suppose any area when it's all looked into - there may be an orthodox/mainstream/culturally popular teaching/view (that changes), but any area is just full of different perspectives & opinions.

There are around 120 different main schools of psychology, myriad different opinions on human physiology & how that relates to consciousness/the self/reality. Some people take a biomedical view on mental health, others a psychogenic &/or spiritual crisis view, others a social recovery/traumagenic view, etc.

Regarding psychiatry & spirituality, no one knows, nor has answered a range of fundamental questions around it all.

But i suppose that is the mystery of life/existence?

Originally Posted by CANDC

There is an excess of opinions. Mindfulness is a way out without getting into the religious fray. To me the question is "What works for me?" And follow that way.

Interested in going without opinions to simple acceptance and awareness of what is. Try reading a couple pages:

Hi. i like Zen a lot, have been reading up on it for years & have had a mindfulness practise for the past 10 years. My main practise is allowance of what is & dis-identifying with mind.

Acceptance is a key to everything.

Originally Posted by Apotheosis

Hi. i like Zen a lot, have been reading up on it for years & have had a mindfulness practise for the past 10 years. My main practise is allowance of what is & dis-identifying with mind.

Acceptance is a key to everything.

Everything that i've tried, practised & done hasn't fundamentally resolved certain things - & it's hard to know as to how to? i kind of accept that i have schizophrenia, managed by a medication & let that be as it all is. There is also another part of me, & always has been, that seeks a deeper healing & resolution to it all - But the catch 22 in that is always that i feel i need a certain amount of understanding & help/support from other people to more fully work through it all.

There are ways of working with people in delusional/psychotic states, & there are ways that an individual can go into & work through things - i know because i have done. i've not been in a full blown or highly delusional state for the past 10 years. Part of that for me is in maintaining a low dose of medication, but i've also put a lot of work into everything.

i feel that i could have/could make a lot more progress & resolution to things if there was far more acknowledgement, validation, acceptance & understanding around certain areas, & someone to really work with on certain experiences. The problem is that so few really understand, or who are willing to deeply listen & go into things - there is a lot of ignorance & fear within all these areas, & a lot of invalidation, trivialisation, stigma & discrimination.

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

I think the grandiosity is in thinking one's self is the "all knowing", that is simply not true with anyone, everyone has something we can learn from. I think that is what "If I speak of myself, I speak a lie" is saying. It's discouraging extreme narcissism which is basically living life in "self" and not having the ability to "see and feel/empathize with" others.

i wouldn't describe myself as a 'know it all', although have met plenty of them.

Over the years on-line, quite a few people have said i'm a narcissist, & years ago a psychopath, i've also been accused a lot of bulling people, i think falsely - none of this has ever happened & doesn't happen in my non-internet life. i think it has something to do with on-line persona & communications. My diagnosis is paranoid schizophrenia, unofficially dual diagnosis - & i can also very much identify with depression, general & social anxiety, & complex PTSD. There has certainly never been any discussion or hint with any health professional in 25 years of any PD traits.

In a very broad & general sense i think everyone can in some way come under general aspects of PD's - as everyone is now pathologised in the DSM 5. & there are selfish aspects to dual diagnosis/addiction.

i have known a few people, one person in-particular in my life that i think would very much fit a NPD diagnosis. i've never been accused of it in my real/non-computer life, & generally people find me very easy going & agreeable.

[Axiom]

I have had the same kinds of thoughts often. I now believe it has to do with pride (a sort pride that I think all people experience a lot of).

Our minds want us to believe that our feelings, perceptions and thoughts are the most sublime and important parts of the universe, i.e. that consciousness justifies itself. Because of this it is easier for us to liken our consciousness to the divine than, say, to liken our bodies to the divine. But the senses are vain and that is not the truth. Behind consciousness there is a sort of operator that tells your senses and spirit what to do. It is not your sense of self (what you mean when you say "ego" or "I"). It does the ego. It is always or almost always silent. Most people will probably never realize what it is or that it even exists.

Please do not think that I'm arrogant for posting this. I just want other people to realize what I realized not so long ago. So... here is a long quote, don't read if you don't want to.

"What the sense feeleth, what the spirit discerneth, hath never its end in itself. But sense and spirit would fain persuade thee that they are the end of all things: so vain are they

Instruments and playthings are sense and spirit: behind them there is still the Self. The Self seeketh with the eyes of the senses, it hearkeneth also with the ears of the spirit

Ever hearkeneth the Self, and seeketh; it compareth, mastereth, conquereth, and destroyeth. It ruleth, and is also the ego's ruler

Behind thy thoughts and feelings, my brother, there is a mighty lord, an unknown sage—it is called Self; it dwelleth in thy body, it is thy body

There is more sagacity in thy body than in thy best wisdom. And who then knoweth why thy body requireth just thy best wisdom?

Thy Self laugheth at thine ego, and its proud prancings. "What are these prancings and flights of thought unto me?" it saith to itself. "A by-way to my purpose. I am the leading-string of the ego, and the prompter of its notions."

The Self saith unto the ego: "Feel pain!" And thereupon it suffereth, and thinketh how it may put an end thereto—and for that very purpose it IS MEANT to think

The Self saith unto the ego: "Feel pleasure!" Thereupon it rejoiceth, and thinketh how it may ofttimes rejoice—and for that very purpose it IS MEANT to think

To the despisers of the body will I speak a word. That they despise is caused by their esteem. What is it that created esteeming and despising and worth and will?

The creating Self created for itself esteeming and despising, it created for itself joy and woe. The creating body created for itself spirit, as a hand to its will"