[Novembernight]

Hi guys,

I am new to this site. It is interesting to read about your experiences. I have been psychotic since start of March and have received treatment with Risperidone. I noticed a small decline in IQ (approx. 4-5 points) after 8 months of treatment with the higest dosage of 4 mg and have recently been switched to 5 mg Abilify because I complained about tiredness/cognitive fuzziness when I was on Risperidone. My question is if I can expect an additional decline in IQ with Abilify? I read here in this forum that it can decrease with around 15 IQ points but the user was able to regain the lost IQ points. So I was also wondering what you can do in order to regain them if necessary? I am trying to live healthy, play brain games and expose myself to new things. Also, it could be interesting to find out which AP is the best for avoiding a drop in IQ. I focus a lot on IQ but this seems to be important to me. There are of course also other factors that matter.

I look forward to hear your experiences.

[Sometimes psychotic]

Risperdal is stronger than abilify, I doubt your iq will drop any further, it probably depends on what if you start with and your overall brain chemistry.

[CognitoSchiz1989]

I'm pretty sure an IQ score varies a couple of points when taking it. Maybe it was just an off day?

How are you feeling on 5mg Abilify? You could try reducing if you think it's not helping? If you've only been on antipsychotics since March, there's maybe a chance that one day you could be free of them. Are you still feeling psychotic? One psychotic episode in your life doesn't make you schizophrenic. You should have three before they diagnose you with that, over here anyway. There are circumstances where an exception is made but you might make a full recovery. But only you know the full facts. I am just going on what you have said. I wouldn't obsess about IQ anyway, it only tests certain types of intelligence. And being less 'intelligent' is not important really. You need to learn that. You are not less of a person for being less intelligent. I'm not saying you are, but you make it too important. I am on Abilify and I can't say I'm more or less intelligent on it. I know I feel more intelligent off antipsychotics. But more importantly I feel more alive as I have my full range of emotions back. I'd rather feel that than be intelligent. Without emotions you might as well not be human.

Good luck.

[Novembernight]

Originally Posted by Sometimes psychotic

Risperdal is stronger than abilify, I doubt your iq will drop any further, it probably depends on what if you start with and your overall brain chemistry.

thanks for answer. I was hoping to get a response from you. I still don't understand why your iq decreased with 15 points. Can you recommend any cognitive training such as N dual back? I am worried that I will overheat my brain with that and Abilify?

[Sometimes psychotic]

Originally Posted by Novembernight

thanks for answer. I was hoping to get a response from you. I still don't understand why your iq decreased with 15 points. Can you recommend any cognitive training such as N dual back? I am worried that I will overheat my brain with that and Abilify?

I'm not sure---it's not supposed to decrease at all but I saw a clear decrease----in my case they've decided that I'm bipolar rather than sz---I'm not sure about the association of mania or hypomania with IQ but it could be related to that.

[Sesquipedaliman]

I'm surprised 5mg abilify makes you so tired i'm on 20mg abilify and i only sleep 12 hours, but when i'm awake my cognitive functioning is clearer than it would be without my medication. idk i have pretty severe SZA though! I hope everything works out for you

[Novembernight]

Originally Posted by CognitoSchiz1989

I'm pretty sure an IQ score varies a couple of points when taking it. Maybe it was just an off day?

Well, I tried again the day after - and it was roughly the same. Maybe two off-days?

[Novembernight]

Originally Posted by cyberwoman

How are you feeling on 5mg Abilify? You could try reducing if you think it's not helping? If you've only been on antipsychotics since March, there's maybe a chance that one day you could be free of them. Are you still feeling psychotic? One psychotic episode in your life doesn't make you schizophrenic. You should have three before they diagnose you with that, over here anyway. There are circumstances where an exception is made but you might make a full recovery. But only you know the full facts. I am just going on what you have said. I wouldn't obsess about IQ anyway, it only tests certain types of intelligence. And being less 'intelligent' is not important really. You need to learn that. You are not less of a person for being less intelligent. I'm not saying you are, but you make it too important. I am on Abilify and I can't say I'm more or less intelligent on it. I know I feel more intelligent off antipsychotics. But more importantly I feel more alive as I have my full range of emotions back. I'd rather feel that than be intelligent. Without emotions you might as well not be human.

Good luck.

Thanks for your reply. I agree with you that IQ is not that important and I should not obsess too much. Maybe I am feeling a bit sad that I am not feeling 100% myself. Also people around me comment on that. However, it seems to be better at low dosages eg 5 mg Abilify, so I will try to continue, though I still exhibit semi-psychotic symptoms. I guess that IQ is a part of my identity in terms of job, dating, etc and it is hard to accept that lost IQ points may not come back. But if I understand you correctly, life is more than IQ.

[Novembernight]

Originally Posted by Sometimes psychotic

I'm not sure---it's not supposed to decrease at all but I saw a clear decrease----in my case they've decided that I'm bipolar rather than sz---I'm not sure about the association of mania or hypomania with IQ but it could be related to that.

Ok that's interesting. Are you still on Abilify and which dosage? And are you working full-time? Sorry about all these questions. I am just curious about what to expect from the treatment in terms of prognosis and recovery to fully functioning.

[Novembernight]

Originally Posted by Sesquipedaliman

I'm surprised 5mg abilify makes you so tired i'm on 20mg abilify and i only sleep 12 hours, but when i'm awake my cognitive functioning is clearer than it would be without my medication. idk i have pretty severe SZA though! I hope everything works out for you

Thanks! I both feel tired and pretty energized - it is a weird combination, though i am getting used to it over the past two weeks. In terms of cognitive functioning, I am pretty non-accepting to my own failures which is not so good.

[Sometimes psychotic]

Originally Posted by Novembernight

Ok that's interesting. Are you still on Abilify and which dosage? And are you working full-time? Sorry about all these questions. I am just curious about what to expect from the treatment in terms of prognosis and recovery to fully functioning.

Yeah I'm on 7.5mg which is a very low dose and I'm still working....

[Novembernight]

Originally Posted by Sometimes psychotic

Yeah I'm on 7.5mg which is a very low dose and I'm still working....

OK cool. Your iq is maybe pretty stable now? Or maybe you do not care that much? You were also on risperidone, right? You did not see any IQ decline (irreversible) there? I am not sure if I will get my 4-5 points back.

[Sometimes psychotic]

Originally Posted by Novembernight

OK cool. Your iq is maybe pretty stable now? Or maybe you do not care that much? You were also on risperidone, right? You did not see any IQ decline (irreversible) there? I am not sure if I will get my 4-5 points back.

Haven't noticed any changes so I haven't tested. I wasn't on risperidone long enough to test....

[still_crazy]

I'm surprised that you feel you've already had cognitive decline. that --can-- happen, especially with the older drugs at high doses (think State Mental Hospitals and the "chemical strait jacket"), but moderately dosed older drugs or atypicals (which are kind of like taking moderated dosed older drugs, in terms of sid effects) aren't as terrible.

I take 30mgs/Abilify. I also take a ton of vitamins (Orthomolecular, it helps), and I haven't had any cognitive problems or IQ loss. Actually...I've managed to get up to baseline, in terms of intellectual capacity, while on meds...I lost IQ points (for a season...) to some involuntary shock treatements years ago. Now, I'm up and running!

There is "tardive dementia." I don't know much about it, but long term use of antipsychotics, heavy drug cocktails, etc. can cause measurable loss of IQ and such. People with tardive dyskinesia often have some degree of impairment, which makes sense since the tics and twitches, when permanent, are a sign of brain damage.

Did risperidone give you tics, twitches, depression, akathisia? I read somewhere that if you have those sorts of problems early on in treatment, staying on can=brain damage and tardive dyskinesia, possibly tardive akathisia, over the long haul. That's one reason I'm so thankful for Abilify...all the other "atypicals" caused serious problems, but Abilify has proven tolerable.

I hope this helps.

[Novembernight]

Originally Posted by still_crazy

I'm surprised that you feel you've already had cognitive decline. that --can-- happen, especially with the older drugs at high doses (think State Mental Hospitals and the "chemical strait jacket"), but moderately dosed older drugs or atypicals (which are kind of like taking moderated dosed older drugs, in terms of sid effects) aren't as terrible.

I take 30mgs/Abilify. I also take a ton of vitamins (Orthomolecular, it helps), and I haven't had any cognitive problems or IQ loss. Actually...I've managed to get up to baseline, in terms of intellectual capacity, while on meds...I lost IQ points (for a season...) to some involuntary shock treatements years ago. Now, I'm up and running!

There is "tardive dementia." I don't know much about it, but long term use of antipsychotics, heavy drug cocktails, etc. can cause measurable loss of IQ and such. People with tardive dyskinesia often have some degree of impairment, which makes sense since the tics and twitches, when permanent, are a sign of brain damage.

Did risperidone give you tics, twitches, depression, akathisia? I read somewhere that if you have those sorts of problems early on in treatment, staying on can=brain damage and tardive dyskinesia, possibly tardive akathisia, over the long haul. That's one reason I'm so thankful for Abilify...all the other "atypicals" caused serious problems, but Abilify has proven tolerable.

I hope this helps.

Thanks for your answer. It seems also a bit weird to me. The psychiatrists I have talked to will also fully reject the idea that the APs cause IQ point loss.

I am glad to hear that you are up and running again. I like to collect good stories about APs and especially about Abilify. I find that Abilify is a pretty good drug for me because I feel alive and driven but it also triggers me into a restless state, and since I have developed a bit more psychotic symptoms recently, I am worried about an increase in dosage, but as I hear you, it is tolerable?

It sounds really interesting with your vitamines consumption. Can you recommend any in particular? I take currently this multi-vitamine pill and fish oil. Do you think it has a good influence on your illness/mood? I was wondering if I could benefit in terms of positive symptoms.

Risperidone was an OK drug for me because it did not give me any of the things your mentioned, however I noticed restless legs (I had to move my legs and for example go for a walk) and moreóver I felt slightly depressed but it was not enough to be categorized as depressed. So I guess those side effects I experienced were within the normal/expected range.

Then I assume that the iq-loss could be due to the fact that I am still psychotic - and maybe the sedating effect of the medicine to some degree when I took the test. I started playing N-dual back and I hope this can resolve some of the problem and get me back on track. However, I should try not to stress about it.

[still_crazy]

'Orthomolecular' is the fancy name for mega-vitamin treatments. The version I'm into dates from the 50s, in Canada. Just before Thorazine got popular in the hospitals, a psychiatrist named Abram Hoffer whipped up vitamin cocktails, centered about b3 (niacin or niacinamide), for people with psychosis. He reported good results, especially in people who hadn't been sick for years and gone chronic (in those days, the natural course of psychosis was often made worse by institutionalization, so chronic patients were harder to deal with after all those years of back wards living).

This verison of Orthomolecular invovles at least 3 grams of B3, at least that much vitamin C, a high dose of (hopefully, natural form) vitamin E, a high potency B-complex, and sometimes extra B6.

I do my own. I take 20 grams time release C (10 time release, 1 gram tablets AM, and again PM)...plus 3 grams time release niacinamide, AM...plus 2 b-100 tablets (time release, in the morning), plus 1,000 IU natural form E w/mixed tocopherols.

I take other stuff, too, but that's the core of my supplement line up. I don't know that its all that great for core psychiatric "symptoms"...I mean, I'm calmer and paranoia is less of an issue, but it could not replace the lil cocktail, at least not for me...but it has made the meds much, much more tolerable for me.

I concentrate better, even with --4-- meds (trileptal, lamictal, abilify, wellbutrin) than I have in a long time. I don't get tremor, stiff gait, twitches, nervousness, akathisia, major cognitive problems. Thankfully...I do not have tardive dyskinesia, and I've been on a full 30mgs/Abilify for 5ish years now.

Abilify, to me, is a good option to other antipsychotics, old or "atypical." I guess its the unique mechanism of action (?) that makes it a better choice for some people. Still...its not perfect. It can cause TD. A lot of people get akathisia. Drug induced depression is a problem with --any-- antipsychotic. I've gained weight, although some of that was from social isolation and stress.

So..yeah...Abilify is a good choice for --me--, but I think of it as a cleaned up, more tolerable tranquilizer. Its not a magic pill, but I can tolerate a full 30mgs of it per day, whereas even 4 mgs/Risperdal daily caused problems for me.

Hope this helps.

[Novembernight]

Originally Posted by still_crazy

'Orthomolecular' is the fancy name for mega-vitamin treatments. The version I'm into dates from the 50s, in Canada. Just before Thorazine got popular in the hospitals, a psychiatrist named Abram Hoffer whipped up vitamin cocktails, centered about b3 (niacin or niacinamide), for people with psychosis. He reported good results, especially in people who hadn't been sick for years and gone chronic (in those days, the natural course of psychosis was often made worse by institutionalization, so chronic patients were harder to deal with after all those years of back wards living).

This verison of Orthomolecular invovles at least 3 grams of B3, at least that much vitamin C, a high dose of (hopefully, natural form) vitamin E, a high potency B-complex, and sometimes extra B6.

I do my own. I take 20 grams time release C (10 time release, 1 gram tablets AM, and again PM)...plus 3 grams time release niacinamide, AM...plus 2 b-100 tablets (time release, in the morning), plus 1,000 IU natural form E w/mixed tocopherols.

I take other stuff, too, but that's the core of my supplement line up. I don't know that its all that great for core psychiatric "symptoms"...I mean, I'm calmer and paranoia is less of an issue, but it could not replace the lil cocktail, at least not for me...but it has made the meds much, much more tolerable for me.

I concentrate better, even with --4-- meds (trileptal, lamictal, abilify, wellbutrin) than I have in a long time. I don't get tremor, stiff gait, twitches, nervousness, akathisia, major cognitive problems. Thankfully...I do not have tardive dyskinesia, and I've been on a full 30mgs/Abilify for 5ish years now.

Abilify, to me, is a good option to other antipsychotics, old or "atypical." I guess its the unique mechanism of action (?) that makes it a better choice for some people. Still...its not perfect. It can cause TD. A lot of people get akathisia. Drug induced depression is a problem with --any-- antipsychotic. I've gained weight, although some of that was from social isolation and stress.

So..yeah...Abilify is a good choice for --me--, but I think of it as a cleaned up, more tolerable tranquilizer. Its not a magic pill, but I can tolerate a full 30mgs of it per day, whereas even 4 mgs/Risperdal daily caused problems for me.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for info. It helps. It sounds interesting with the supplements. I may try some of them especially b3. Also, it is good to hear that you don't have TD and it is a good med for you. I believe that it will also help me.