Did/do your professors "curve grades"?

I got a call from my college-freshman son recently. He is getting discouraged because he's working very hard in his classes, but the wacky curving system his professors are using is bringing his grades down. I'm talking about that grading technique where the prof forces the grade distribution into a normal-curve pattern. That way, the prof tries to give just a few high grades. (And the pattern tries to insure that over half, theoretically 68% or so, of the students receive C's.)

I was taught by an excellent Statistics professor that such a curving policy is ridiculous. She gave the most inane example she'd actually heard about. It seems that a professor (true story) gave a test. Some students made 100's, some made 98's, and some made 96's. Well, of course, she just couldn't give them all A's, could she? So, she gave the students who made 100's A's, the students who made 98's C's, and the students who made 96's F's.

My son was telling me that out of a class of 30 students, one of his profs announced that 4 had made A's. Of course, he was the 5th student in line, and he got a B. (I think I have this story straight.) At any rate, he is concerned, because his professor for his major is also big on curving, and as he gets into the more advanced classes, there will be fewer students.

I was a college prof for over 20 years, and I never curved grades. If all the students got A's (90% or above), then I was happy to give them.

I realize some of the more elite schools have been criticized for grade inflation in recent years--and my son is going to a school that merits being called "elite"--but it's sad that the profs feel led to force the grades they give down.

Obviously, this thread is partly a "rant," but I am wondering about the experiences of students in other places. Please respond and let me know when you were in school or if you are in school now. I'm thinking about writing a paper on the topic. Thank you very much!

Hello, PAYNE1. Sorry about the carpel-tunnel pain. It has been over thirty years since I took any college courses. Some professors did grade on the curve. Grade inflation was a concern then too.

Frankly, I never gave it much thought. Now that I have read your post, I am with you. Those who score within the range for the various grades should get the grade they earned.

it's not being done in my college and I've heard of this before, but never heard of it happening in any school in Ireland, although I wouldn't be surprised if it does happen.

I'm sorry to hear he is going through that. Knowing what that is like, he has my sympathies. I hope he can hang in there. Sometimes there can be recourse with the dean in some situations and best to meet with an advisor first for the best way to proceed. Prof's have done some crazy things over the years like the example you described, pure craziness.

One university I went to there were ABSOLUTELY no curves with classes of 250-375 people, they were not about to touch those numbers and work with them, despite problems in some classes.

The last university saw a whole spectrum of curves, positive and negative as described above. The ones that could be appreciated by many were the ones based on flaws in the tests, or when the prof realized there was material added on there that we had not covered yet; those type issues and positive curve was applied. A few would make a perfect range so they would not have so many failing, slide everyone up due to a 'flaw in their teaching', and did not want those numbers on record as so low, "CYA"-type grading. It was maddening because the learning environment was reflected in the grading, little teaching to go with the poor grading system. That is why I left.

The current university is somewhere in between. Though rarely curved, if it is, it is for a good reason. I have never seen the numbers skewed down, they are always in favor of the student and are rarely done, more prudent about doing so. Otherwise the grade you get, you are told at the beginning of class your exams and projects fall in such-n-such range then your grade will be this, and they mean it. Knowing how it can be, I TRULY appreciate this!

I've been in college for about 3.5 years now, and that hasn't happened to me at all. I take mostly Statistics and Mathematics courses and my professors have been very fair in terms of grades. Class average is usually around 70, so people who get about 87+ get A's.

only in college or on the regents..

I'm so sorry your son has to deal with that - my university is something like that. Not really a concrete curve like the one your son is experiencing but more of a general grade deflation. I go to a fairly selective liberal arts college and it seems that in order to preserve such a high rank among the liberal arts school, professors feel the need to basically beat down students. I'm pretty sure that a C at my school is the equivalent of an A at "normal" schools... It's super frustrating and sometimes I wonder why I don't just transfer to a school where I could get good grades for the same amount of work. This summer I took 3 courses at 2 pretty decent institutions and made straight A's - couldn't help but think whyyyy??? Grade deflation and curves are not fair! Students who work hard should get the grades they deserve, regardless of what the grade distribution is in a class.

My music literature professor graded us on a bell curve when I took his class. He prided himself on failing a third of the class each semester. I remember on the first day of my freshman year in college sitting in his class and the smirk on his face when he told us that half the class would drop in the first five weeks, and that only a small handful of us would actually make it out with A's.

These days I wonder if maybe the speech itself was the point, because the next day our numbers had dropped from nearly seventy to forty-five. I went on to pass with an A, more out of spite than any zeal for the class itself, as much as I honestly did enjoy most of my major classes.

Anyway, I think it really depends on the professor. Some of them seem to think it engenders motivation and a competitive spirit in the classroom, and others (my dad included) have said that bell curves were never meant for use in a classroom setting, and use the more traditional point system.

I usually only see bell curves used here when it'll favor the students in some way. It would annoy the hell out of me if they were doing it in the scenario you describe. However, I also look up all my classes/teachers before taking them so I don't end up in a horrible situation. Maybe other profs do it here, and I just haven't taken classes with them. I'm not at an elite school though, and those can really be tricky. I know of some which practically require you to have already know the material before it's taught. Personally, I wouldn't go to one 'til grad school. No reason to ruin one's gpa as an undergrad.

It's not just "elite" schools that are under pressure about grade inflation - it's a problem everywhere. Giving better grades means better student reviews of the course, for which profs are rewarded (to some extent, anyway) and so it's a bit of a perverse incentive issue. Profs can get into trouble for failing too many students and can also get into trouble for going too easy on students. They can actually lose tenure if it's a big enough problem. So from a different perspective, if you're a faculty member, you can't win - the administration will get down on you for being too lenient, the students will come whining for upholding institutional standards, or worse yet, the helicopter parents will get on your case (which is a great way to prevent students from learning how to be adults and handle their own business...)

I don't grade on a curve (I'm a PhD student and teach occasionally), and I don't know any profs in my school that do. For the last course I taught, I had 7 A's and one E (and I was very disappointed to have to give that E, not for lack of giving the student opportunities to improve...) I used a straight scale for the course and rubrics for each assignment, and I had great students, which is why they earned good grades. I would see an inane example like the one above as a clear indicator that the prof was either incredibly good (and all the students are meeting learning goals, at which point there's no rational reason to curve the grades) or was utterly lousy at assessments, which is more likely.

We do have university standards on what the "average" baseline grade is for undergrads and grad students. I don't remember what it is for undergrads, but the baseline grade for grad students in our university is a B, so that's a full grade up from an "average" C. In grad schools, the base grade is usually higher than for undergrad, and you can lose financial aid if you drop down to a C average (but this varies by institution.) And unless you go for a PhD or a few other exception cases, grades don't even really matter in grad school, aside from financial aid eligibility.

Grading schemes are usually determined by individual instructors, but there are cases where there are university policies influencing those choices as well. It's a very complicated business (as I know you know, Payne1!)