Welcome to Self-Help Ideas and Goal Setting!

This isn't going to be easy but I would like to give it a try.

1) The behavior involved: a pattern of negative thinking / putting myself down / blaming myself.

2) The emotions experienced: self-loathing, intolerant of my own stupidity / mistakes. Irritability. Helplessness. Hoplessness. Fear

3) The skills you may need: clearly I am new at this for I don't have a clue. I have been trying to break out of this for years and don't even know how to convince myself that I am not useless.

4) The mental processes involved (thoughts or self-talk, motivations, self-concept, values, and expectations): despite many motivations and self-talks, having high values - I seem to constantly strive for perfection. And always feel that I have failed when I don't achieve it. Constantly seeking approval and re-assurance despite not "expecting" it.

5) the unconscious forces that may contribute to your troubles: Traumatic first marriage - though I should be over it by now. Being overweight - emotional eating. Addictive behaviour.

I don't know what I have achieved here - I feel a little confused now.

Time to do some more reading.

Thanks for the opportunity to share this though.

<font color="blue">Thanks drclay. I was unsure as to whether the 5 pts applied to the problem or to the solution, as reading the points and examples gave me both. I guess I could have replied two sets, one for problem and the other for solution.

THIS IS LONG POST, and I'm sorry for that, but not ashamed

As I noted, I had this solution working, but went into a pain flare (mainly from stress) shortly afterwards.

My problem is not obtaining enough restorative sleep. My solutions included adjusting taking the valerian root at a strength that actually helps, and also taking two doses of pain meds, one with the valerian, and another after an hour as the valerian begins to work. The pain meds have a half life of 1 1/2 hours and is all but "gone" by the 3 hour point. I tend to wake in serious pain between 3 and 4 hours after the last pill.

In addition to the meds routine, I also prepare myself mentally for sleep. I shut down the tv, radio, notebook, check the house alarm and doors, locks, check the dog's water bowl, drink a half pint of water, turn the thermostat down to about 70 F degrees, along with the normal preparations for bedtime (brushing teeth etc.)

Once in bed, I make sure the pillows are adjusted for proper support, turn off the light, turn on the CD player and start the delta brain wave CD. While that begins, I use a type of self-hypnosis/meditation to visualize the chakra colors. As I move through the green, blue to purple... I also "hear" my T begin to count from #1 "in the background." I take note of tension in my body, and of my breathing. This usually allows me to fall asleep.

I recently added a post-hypnotic suggestion for when sleeping/waking after the first 3 or 4 hour segment of sleep: that when it's time for more pain med, that I will briefly wake to take the meds but stay asleep and go back into the dream that I was in (if). I facilitated this effort by having the pain med dose set out, and by purchasing a non-spill sippy top for the half pint water bottle, to allow me to drink while lying down. I also added the suggestion: That whenever I do wake for the day, I will feel fully rested as though I had a full night's uninterrupted sleep.

This works for me. I also engage in lucid dreaming, and have a few times, when waking from the pain and taking the middle of the night dosage, kept telling myself that I was still asleep, I was still in the dream, so as not to have to work at going right back to sleep. This worked delightfully well.

In my current efforts I realized that I was becoming confused as to whether I was awake or dreaming. With further study I found that by "trying" to gently push my hand through the headboard area wall, I could know for sure (because in lucid dreaming if I want to put my hand through a wall, I can. I can't do that IRL. )

NOW as for the unconscious aspect of the problem solving... I DID have to work on the whys I might not wish to go to sleep. I hadn't realized that those issues were at play in the effort...so I am thinking they were unconscious, but once I sought them, they came forward. This includes the alone/loneliness factor. I hadn't realized I feel so alone.

Since I had had success with having a good night's sleep, segmented but restorative, prior to this exercise, now that I have ferreted through all these new thoughts, I certainly will be more successful!

Have I missed something still for this problem?

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_Sky:

I am glad to see a quick response from you.

You are exactly right! The five parts of a problem usually helps us see the problem more comprehensively. And, in addition, the five parts define the five main kinds of self-help (and therapy) methods available to therapists or self-helpers to change the problem. (Chapter 2 makes this a lot more clear.) I'm impressed you caught the duel purpose classification so quickly.

You have quite a routine for bed. It is well thought out and tailored for you. I would speculate that not only the meds and mental preparation help but just having a long, routine process preparing for sleep is an aid to falling to sleep. How long has it taken you to work out this routine?

I would guess you are feeling pretty confident that you are able to control your sleep (in spite of pain). Expections are a big help.

Often I make an assumption that the unconscious is getting some benefit from the problem behavior (in this case from the poor sleep) but, since you seem to be mastering sleep pretty well, we can't blame insomnea on the unconscious. (Maybe we can blame the pain on the unconscious...just kidding Yet, you may have discussed this with others in the group, but I'd be interested in the reasons for your loneliness.)

Let us know how the sleeping is going.

Clay

Sabina:

I saw your post before and wanted to respond to you, partly because you seem so down on yourself. So, you have some skill in understanding this psychology stuff.

First of all, you seem to have a clear picture of the five parts of any problem...and you described your situation very well.

For a discussion of self-criticism, see Chapter 6, page 128.
There is more about self-esteem in Chapter 14 too.

You may need to focus on really believing in your strengths and good characteristics. In the early part of Chapter 14 I discuss the new Positive Psychology. There are some tests that to help you see your strenths and your skills.

Sorry about your first marriage...I know divorce is very painful--I have been through two of them. But I know that we are capable of becoming better partners and of learning how to relate intimately. I have been married for 25 years to my wife. It is a wonderful relationship.

Are you perfectionistic about your next marriage or are you hopeless about that part of your future?

You can come to feel better about yourself. Get started on working on it.

drclay

Dr Clay

Thank you for your response.

I must say that tackling your extraordinary book is daunting. I perused over the chapters you mentioned to me and kept wanting to branch off into other areas.

It became evident that I have numerous issues to work on. I started to panic when I managed to tell myself that I have posted about ONE issue right now - and that I shall deal with JUST that issue for now. No matter how multi-faceted it is.

I am aware that I need to spend much time and energy focusing on my strengths and good characteristics. While my logic and intelligence can note them and agree, it is another matter entirely when I try to "feel" them. I cannot discern whether this is a learned behaviour or not. I will study some more though.

One thing that stood out very clearly to me, and that I am so relieved to know why I might do this, is that I indulge in self critical and self hurtful behaviour as a safety net, or as you mentioned "a way of reducing stress". If I have run myself down, then nobody else can. Or perhaps it won't hurt as much when they eventually do. Now I need to get out of this trap.

I am not hopeless about my present marriage as though it is "new", it is very happy. I am very blessed to have this second chance. But I do certainly extend my perfectionism into the home life of my marriage. Trying to keep the "perfect" home etc. Telling myself to "just lighten up" is often easier said than done.

Anyway, I have a lot of homework to do. Thank you so very much for this wonderful resource. I have never been excited about helping myself, until now.

Now that's an interesting statement to me! </font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
the unconscious is getting some benefit from the problem behavior

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I'm not sure I've ever looked at anything that way. I see the conscious using the unconscious to support the behavior. hhmmmmm I will keep that in mind and see if anything crops up. OH! Are we discussing possible secondary benefits?

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drclay said:
Describe your problem to us again using the five parts that are involved in almost any problem. When some people do that let's see if the problem becomes more clearly described and see if it might become easier to find ways to deal with the problem. Do we have any volunteers?

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My try at the Five Parts of every Problem....

1.) The problem is that I often stay in the safety of my home for I do not like seeing Young Beautiful Sexy Looking Females.

2.) I cannot deal with the physical response of my mind and body (my personal death wish) when I am in the presence of a Young Beautiful Sexy Female..... for I FEAR that my husband will see her, and that he will want her over me - find her more to his liking than I am.

3.) The skills I may need:

* Redirecting my visual attention else where.
* Locate new founded self-esteem and be able to like Me - as I am, age and all.
* Being secure in knowing that my husband love me and wants me only (this is a hard one - due to past wounds created by my husbands once porn use over me).

4.) My mental process is much the same as it has been for the last 10 years....

I start out by having anxiety over the mere thought of going out in public - over what my husband will see (might lust over) if we go out together, then my emotions turn to FEAR (of not being wanted or loved, being replaced by someone younger, prettier, sexier) - and I know that I will have to deal with the resonations of him/me seeing HER when I get home and I FEAR the out come, for I am occasionally left with feeling as though death would be better than living with this problem.
....... I HATE to CRY while out in PUBLIC!!

I often self talk to myself saying:

* You know that SHE is what he really wants, for he is MAN.
* You are nothing if you are not young & sexy any more..... for all men want SEXY.
* You are getting old therefore You are not any good.... Your Looks Have Failed You as a Woman.

I EXPECT my Husband too:

* Control his lustful eyes and mind while with me (and when out in public by him self)
* To honor the vows he made to me/us 20 years ago..... He agreed to forsake all others for ME.

5.) The unconscious forces that may contribute to my troubles:

* My own father left me (and the entire family) when I was just one years old - for the babysitter, a much Younger and Sexier Female than my mother.
* Between the age of 2 to 12 I was sexually molested by 4 different men - all because they did not control their eyes (porn usage), mind or male desires.
* The only time I really felt wanted was when I was YOUNG and looking SEXY - all the girls wanted to be my friend and all the boys wanted me as their girlfriend, and I often got out of trouble in school because I was one of the PRETTY girls.
* Being raped in unspeakable ways as an adult, and all in the name of male pleasure.
* My husband own 10 year struggle with porn and him wanting what eyes saw over me, and while this is all in the past now (3 yrs now) I know he still struggles for he is male and I am still haunted by the emotional damage left over in me.

* * * * * * * * * * *

Now What? - I know all the answers - I just don't know how to STOP it from still effecting ME?

* * * * * * * * * * *

LoVe,
Rhapsody -

(((((((((rhapsody))))))))))))))...your discription of the five is so close to my heart!!

Things I missed so far:
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How long has it taken you to work out this routine?

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I've had trouble sleeping since the injury. About 5 years ago I really began trying all the different sleep meds, to no avail. A few months ago I stated and T agreed if anyone can do this, I can. And we began to collaborate on all the elements. There are still other elements that I failed to mention: I am hypoglycemic. I need to eat something every 2 hours or so, which is not possible while sleeping. I do need to eat something just before bed. Also, I aspirate sometimes while sleeping. What I eat might play into this. I have just begun to suspect my inhaler which opens airways??? I do know that I had a problem with the esophagus and began taking digestive enzymes (last month) and that diminished the aspiration to less than half of how often it used to happen (even during the day.) Maybe I need more, IDK sigh. Still working on this, as it is a huge problem to get back to sleep after. Perhaps is an unconscious "fear" somehow.

I have been sleeping ok, but wake fatigued still. It may take a few more days to see if I am obtaining restorative sleep and am just filling the empty coffers right now. (Bedtime is by 1 am!)

I do have true physical issues that cause the pain. However, I know all too well the interconnectivity of the mind and body. If the unconscious is relishing the pain, I want to know about it!!!!

Loneliness. Well. I do ok with aloneness. I like times alone. Lonely is what I don't want to be. For the time being, having a relationship would be more stressful and be more frustrating and probably wouldn't last anyway (I'm high maintenance) so it has been tabled. I'm cognitively okay with this, as it's the correct decision. My heart wishes otherwise? But then, that's where the thought stopping enters screeeeeech!

Did I already mention that I do sometimes read? If my eyes will focus well enough, and my depression allows some concentration, I will read a bit. (If I'm too wired, it won't settle me a bit. I read quite fast and have been known to read an entire work in one sitting!)This is another choice/variable to my sleep routine.

ah drclay , you're pulling long posts from me but most here haven't seen me share this much about myself, and perhaps will allow me?

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_Sky said:
long posts from me but most here haven't seen me share this much about myself, and perhaps will allow me?

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Of course Sky! These are "lengthy" issues we are all dealing with.
I have enjoyed reading your journey on your posts here.

Yes, Sky, one of the things I like about "self" help is learning from other people's struggles and examples :-)

Rhapsody:

I tried to respond to your post yesterday but some how I couldn't get to it...maybe the same problem as I just had: I FORGOT to log in!!! A few more stupid mistakes and I'll have it down pat.

Your post yesterday was open, honest, insightful and a good piece of work. It quickly became clear that you are constantly comparing your appearance with other women, fearing they might be more attractive and sexy than you think you are. What a hell of a burden or strain! Not just the competition but the possible thought that hubby might go bannas over a total stranger on the street. We all...well, many of us... have a fleeting thought when we see a beautiful person that "Oh, God, I'd hate to compete with that person." But is a brief thought and quickly we regain our sense of reality--"It couldn't happen...my husband or my wife would not try to seduce her or him...or that good looking wouldn't have much interest in him or her. Then quickly our thoughts go to he/she cares too much for me and our relationship so it would never happen...and so the nightmarish fantasy usually goes away in a few seconds.

You have done something very commendable here: you have experienced a history of hurtful, inconsiderate, self-centered men and a string of terrible sexual experiences and apparently you have not ended up hating all men and sex. Instead, you have a fear of beautiful women. That is amazing and makes me believe you have the strength to reach your commendable goals of feeling secure, loving your husband, and liking yourself.

At the end of Chapter 14 of my book there are some ideas about how to stop bad memories or thoughts. See if there is something helpful there. You didn't say anything about your own sexual adjustment but maybe some information near the end of Chapter 10 would be of interest.

I imagine your post here might have been hard to write. I want you to know that I respect the courage it took to share it.

drclay

[
ah drclay , you're pulling long posts from me but most here haven't seen me share this much about myself, and perhaps will allow me?

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Subrina0805:

Sorry I don't have much time but check out Perfectionism and Worry on about page 128 in Chapter 6. Then tell me how it works or ask me questions.

To find skills that might be useful to you look over (skim)Chapter 13 and see if there are any skills there that might serve you well.

drclay

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Bethsway said:
(((((((((rhapsody))))))))))))))...your discription of the five is so close to my heart!!

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Thank YOU.... for it does my heart well to know that I am truly understood and that I am not a nuts for feeling as I do.

And.... I am sorry that YOU too have had the knowledge of the pain that I have been made to endure.

LoVe,
Rhapsody - ((( )))

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drclay said:
At the end of Chapter 14 of my book there are some ideas about how to stop bad memories or thoughts. See if there is something helpful there. You didn't say anything about your own sexual adjustment but maybe some information near the end of Chapter 10 would be of interest.

I imagine your post here might have been hard to write. I want you to know that I respect the courage it took to share it.

drclay

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Dr Clay........... I have read your reply to me and I will respond back with some more thoughts after I have had a chance to read the chapters that you recommended.

I really do want to HEAL from the hell that I have lived in for the last 10 years of my withering life - a dark prison I almost died from, not once but twice and at my own hands.
.................... I do NOT wish to go back there.



LoVe,
Rhapsody -

Rhapsody:

You and several other posters on this thread have mentioned having negative thoughts about themselves and/or bad memories and thoughts about others.

I went back to checkout the last topic in my Chapter 14 about Stopping Bad Memories and Thoughts. I wish scientific finding could be simplier and more clearly stated. I did my best in this very complex area with several conflicting findings. I'd like to help you and others work out some ways of stopping or coping with the disturbing and depressing memories and thoughts.

As I read through the last part of Chapter 14, I came to realize that several of my links were not working well--some don't go anywhere, other links go to my old discontinued Website, still others include URLs based on html whereas this current edition used PDF. I apologize for these errors. I'll get the URLs working as soon as possible. One of the things I value about being online is that skipping to other sections and pulling together different topics so they make good sense. I'll get some help updating the URLs but it will take some time. (How do I put the blushing smiley here?)

Stick with me.
drclay

I am rather late catching up with this new forum, but now I have read every post here, and a little bit of the book. I hope that I am not too late to participate in trying out the five steps. I have been so stuck lately (and probably for my whole life), and I am hoping maybe to find some answers here. Feedback would be appreciated, and I'll do my best to accept the feedback. I hope that I'm finally ready to start changing, and I know that nobody can do it for me, or even give me the answers.

This is a very complex problem, and one that I have been stuck in for a very long time, although I think I am seeing the real problem now for the fist time (with help). What I am trying to deal with is the actual ability to engage in the change process. (1) I somehow discredit or disregard feedback and remain stuck, failing to change. 'Constructive' feedback I use to beat myself up with. Positive comments I get rejected too, even if only in my head. Or just plain ignored. (2) hopeless, despair, self-hate. (3) I need to develop the skills to be able to really look at myself accurately and honestly, and to sort out valid perceptions (my own or someone elses) from invalid ones. I need to be able to respond to those observations and do something with them. I need to accept myself where I am even though I am far from having it all together. I need to be able to give myself credit for the positives even though I would like to do better. Developing self-esteem would be a big part of this. (4) I find a way to argue with anything, telling myself that I don't deserve anything good because I'm not good enough and never can be good enough. I convince myself that I should be something other than what I am, and that I should be able to change who I am pretty much instantly, or that I should have done it ages ago, and also that I should not need help with it. I feel that I am worthless if I can't get everything right on the first try, and if someone has to tell me that I didn't get it, then I must be bad/incompetent/worthless .... And if someone pays me a compliment, I find some way to discount it - I had help, or it was an accident that I did something that turned out okay, or it really isn't good enough, or anybody could do it, .... (5) This is the hard part, but there must be a lot of unconscious stuff going on otherwise this wouldn't be so hard. A lot of it is feeling like it really isn't okay to be okay or to be competent, even though I really want to. This comes from my upbringing, as my parents wanted to keep me as a dependent child forever, and that message came across from them a lot. There is also a lot of fear of failure, and also a belief that the only way to be cared about is to be in need of help, so if I did manage to change the stuff that I need to change, nobody would want to help me anymore, or care about me. I'm also afraid of needing too much help and everyone getting tired of it.

Rap

Rapunzel:

Thanks for such a detailed description of your "thing to change." In short, you feel an overwhelming amount of self-criticism and you believe you are helpless. What is most amazing is that you seemed to give a great explanation of the cause of your problem:

my parents wanted to keep me as a dependent child forever Brilliant! The unconscious part is how your parents' teachings about being helpless became so powerful and unchallenged by you even though you are no longer a child (how old are you?).

So, I'd say your self-help project is to disprove (in behavior, feelings, and thoughts) all this destructive negative crap you were taught by your family (remember they were almost certainly trying to be good parents to help and keep you protected).

A good therapist would ask you to test out the validity of many of your negative ideas, e.g. is it true that you can't change (each day prove you can change what you eat in some way (keep records), reduce the self-hatred thoughts today, count how often you can pleasantly interact with other people, and on and on.

Try thought stopping (in Ch. 11) when am "helpless or awful" thought/feeling comes into your mind. Find out there are other ways to be cared about instead of being weak and in need of help. Test out over and over day by day if people only love you when you a helpless little girl. You may, indeed, need to much help (that is not a putdown; it is encouragement.

There are thousands of ways to prove you are likeable and competent so you don't feel so self-critical, so you will be happier. Try testing some of your negative ideas and put some of your positive traits to work...and then give us feedback about how you did. Many people coming here have had experience learning to feel better about themselves (and still being honest).

Over-protective parents are teaching "you-are-not-OK" and you need help because you can't take care of yourselves. They are unaware of what they are teaching the child.

I hope we hear back from you (my Chapter 14 is about the stuff I'm talking about in this post).

drclay

DrClay,

I appreciate your response and encouragement. I'm struggling to find the balance between disregarding positive feedback and simply being honest about where I am. I have been working hard to figure out what I am doing that keeps me stuck, and why I keep doing that. Getting to this point where I can write out the problem as above is pretty big progress for me. Then I get to this point and get stuck again. My eighth therapist has been on the verge of giving up on me for a few months now. She decided to give me a little bit longer to start doing something, and I'm getting rather desperate. We found another reason why I keep staying stuck here too. If I prove that I can't change, then I don't have to keep feeling bad or guilty for not changing. Except that I do keep feeling bad and feeling guilty.

I have been 29 for around 7 years now (I lost track). Yup, I'm stuck there too. I'm too old to still be blaming my parents for it. Although if you look at my siblings, out of 6 of us I'm considered to be one of the more functional ones. One brother is schizophrenic, one sister will be their perpetual child because she has down syndrome, and another sister is 4 years younger than me and still lives with the parents, never learned to drive, has been working on an associates degree for at least 10 years, etc. I do function at least in some areas of my life. I'm married with 3 kids and in my second year working towards a master's degree in counseling (with a 4.0 GPA). I just need to learn to apply what I can do to the areas of my life where I need it, and I have no good excuses for being so stuck!

I do change some things, just very slowly. For example, a year and a half ago I was afraid to drive by myself across the state or in cities. Now I can do that. I changed my whole life when I decided to go back to school. There are ways of interacting with people that I am working on too, and I think that I am making some progress.

Someone here has suggested that I practice thought-stopping before and I didn't really get around to trying that, so there's another example of how I disregard constructive feedback, but I am going to look that up now and do it this time. I've been actively sabotaging myself with my negative thoughts, and for some reason I have been very reluctant to let go of that.

I'll try testing negative ideas (do you mean like checking out with other people whether they feel the way that I assume they do?) and also try to do something with my positive traits (I wonder if you can give me an example of what you mean there).

Looking through your index, I noticed that chapter 14 is probably something I could get a lot out of, and I have started reading that. I'm getting some mileage out of chapter 2 also.

Thanks again for your suggestions.
Rap