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I'm struggling to find the balance between disregarding positive feedback and simply being honest about where I am.

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HUH? (((RAP))) There is NO balance, imo, and no reason to "disregard positive feedback." You can have both: a handle on where you are AND positive feedback. IMO sometimes you don't feel like you are progressing or working on yourself unless your T bashes you about something

(Forgive me if I overstepped by replying in this thread.)

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There's no reason to disregard positive feedback, but that's one of the things that I keep doing. T has become very hesitant about giving me any positive feedback because I have a history of ignoring it at best or setting out to prove how bad I am (through self-destructive behaviors) at worst. Or just rejecting it and arguing with it. So I don't want to do that anymore. I'm being careful about how I respond to feedback because I want to be honest with myself and with other people, but I don't want to respond to positive feedback with "thanks, but no thanks - I don't deserve that." If any of you catch me in that pattern I would appreciate it if you tell me I'm doing it again.

As always, I do appreciate your comments and concern, (((Sky))).

Rap

hmm would that be the same thing (what your T is doing to you) as, "Well since you don't know how to take it, I won't give it to you in the first place."

To me, that ventures on, "You don't deserve encouragement because you never accept it anyway." Which moves you on to, "I must be a terrible person because I can't even accept praise." And might even move to: "No one gives me praise because I'm not deserving of it."

No, in my opinion, a good T continues to give encouragement and praise so that you begin to believe you do deserve it and then can begin to accept it. The T should model the behavior and continue with the effort. If you balk, then T should counter your balk, but continue to reinforce that you ARE deserving and learning how to do this IMO

Believe in Him or not --- GOD LOVES YOU!

Want to share your Christian faith? Click HERE

My first thought was to give you an example of how I have reacted destructively to praise, to illustrate the fact that T has reason for withholding it. Okay, I have to admit that I can see that progression taking place as you said.

Hi Drclay

how r u ? hope that everything fine with you and all. Though I did drop by in this forum and did read some but I skip from one chapter to another really wanna to take this opportunity to Thank You for coming to PC and ur self-help book. I felt that its really giving of you of ur honesty, openess & kindness. Though perhaps its part of ur job but i know that no matter what is our job we also a human and human are not perfect but of-coz strive to be the BEST of the BEST as am striving really hard. Life is definetly not easy a lots of things to overcome Never ending story. But deep inside I know that My home is not of this world I just come passing by and go. And Life is definetly short no matter how much I complain and whining of all the things happened in my life been abused and still being abused so my part I just need to be willing to forgive and let go.But I felt thankful despite of the misery I have to go thru I felt that GOD is faithful like HE always will that u came to pc and give a helping hand thanks alots for helping each and everyone of us here in pc and even outsiders. Can I asked u something is borderline or others personality disorder also genetically???? I suspect that all of my family members have personality disorder and my mom a borderline also. My twins been on meds before and one of them seeing psy. Really have alots of turmoil in my family. But I just need and got to be persevere and fight the good fight and focus Heaven and try my upmost best to be outwardly focus coz when am outwardly focus ( helping others or reflesh others I myself helping myself and got refleshed ) Thanks

(((((((((((((((((DrClay&ALL)))))))))))))))
with love
carol

alittlehoshime:

Thanks for the warm and caring welcome from Malaysia. About 20 years ago we had a young man from Thailand living with us for a year while he was in High School. A very nice fellow.

As you said, it is helpful when some people, like you, can forgive, even though they have been abused and had a very hard life. Several religions believe we live on after death, such as Christianity, Buddhists, Islam and others.

You asked if I thought that Borderline Personality is genetic. I think there is a genetic part of the cause but that doesn't mean that it can't be changed. Those kinds of personality traits can be learned when we are young and passed on to our children, so it looks like inherited.

When I learn more about your life problems, I may suggest you read some things in my book. Is reading a lot in English hard for you to do?

I look forward to us knowing each other better.

drclay

drclay,

thanks a lots for ur reply and yw! you stated that :

"Those kinds of personality traits can be learned when we are young and passed on to our children, so it looks like inherited."

how to stop the "inherit" to my next generation? of coz what is bad i wanna to kick it out and what is good i keep. Or should I say there's no perfect life here on earth I just need to deal with it , overcome, surrender etc etc till the day I die.

about english I would say "borderline" at times that certain words or sentence i still dont understand or find it difficult to put into practice or adjustment and also to be honest I either didnt read the whole thing and started into the chat coz I wanted it "fast". but when the time someone told me that I shouldnt said this or that or do this or that I realized that i've make a mistakes and need to repent. Plz dont kick me out from pc. thanks

carol

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devox:

I'm glad to hear from you again. You are in a demanding situation but you sound, in some ways, like a tough woman...a Marine?? for how long?? Why did you get out?? (the little ones?) What was your specialty?

I'll just go over your five parts and make some observations. (1) You push helpful people away, yet (2) you often feel weak, worthless, incompetent and in need of help? What an impossible bind!

Comment: it is very hard to understand what is happening when these situations are described in very general terms. For example, if the helpful person is a good-looking, overly friendly guy next door, it may not be hard to understand. And, if the helpful person is a friend who always suggests you need some kind of treatment (prescribed meds, yoga, religion...) which doesn't interest you, you naturally avoid advice you don't like.

(3) and (4) Wanting to be capable is very different from demanding perfection from yourself in all ways. Being perfect is again very general which no one can ever accomplish, so what specifically and realistically would you like to learn to do better in the next month...with whom and in what spicific ways? Can you focus on one thing at a time and put the rest on the back burner?

(5) The things you mention here don't seem at all unconscious--in fact they seem on your mind much of the time. What about getting some psychological benefits from your depression and distress? what about hoping people will feel sympathy when you tell about your 2 kids and working, husband gone, lack of psychological help from the military and so on? I'm not saying this things are true of you! You may find the ideas are irritating but if I were you, I'd be a little aware of my emotional needs. Also, in (5), I didn't hear much about anger and unconscious ways you might be expressing pent up anger--any speculation about that?

But the most important thing for you to do, I think, is to find something new way of behaving or feeling and start working on one thing at a time. Any ideas?

drclay

PS: Have you called a Mental Health facility on a base and asked if you could see someone every month or two and talk on the phone with them once or twice a week? I like people who are depressed and prone to SI to have someone available who can help. By the way, how did you "go through" the 3 therapists in town? What is your relationship with them now?

Post deleted by DocJohn

devox:

In your last post you said: "In the next month would like to learn to learn to be comfortable in my body. I want to learn to be more accepting of my flaws and less critical of myself. I'm tired of worrying that if I can't accomplish something I start that I'll be considered a failure by those who know me and they will think less of me."

That still seems to me pretty general and vague.. The task is to decide what it means to get comfortable, accept your flaws, and be less critical of yourself. Exactly what will you do or feel when you achieve those goals in some specific area...and what exactly will you to try to achieve those goals? I may be asking for too many specifics here. Do you have any idea how to reach those goals in one month?

Let me see if I can think of things you could do: (1) monitor and quickly cast out any self-criticism. Start tomorrow and let us know Sunday night how well you did. (2) Also make a list of your favorite faults you criticise and make a list of strengths you can use to replace the faults. (3) Set some goal that would disprove your faults, like a better job or a promotion or getting important training in the next six months. Tell us your progress and how or why you have failed.

Good luck and keep in touch with this forum. If my suggestions don't seem very good, ask the people who come here for their ideas.

drclay

Hi Dr. Clay--Nice to meet you. You seem to be an intelligent, caring individual. I am intrigued by this forum and your theory that every problem as 5 parts/levels. Certainly, with all due respect, do you think you could be making this a whole lot more difficult than it has to be? Sometimes a solution just presents itself. Also, don't you think that those of us who have suffered with mental illness, seen psychiatrists, therapists, et al, tend to over-analyze and get mired in the "why" of the problem rather than moving more quickly to a solution? I certainly think that most of us, certainly I do, tend to be extremely sensitive, perhaps overly so, to physical and emotional changes within ourselves. Do you think this hypersensitivity contributes to an increase in "problems?"

I apologize for rambling and in advance for possibly getting us off track. I certainly will take a look at your book.

Thanks.
okiedokie

oakiedocie:

I like your kind of questioning, doubtful kind of message. You raise good points. I'll briefly try to explain my viewpoints. First, I am not certain that every problem has 5 parts but what I am more certain is that there are five aspects of the problem that can be changed using certain methods. Chapters 11 to 15 explain the methods that concentrate on changing behaviors, reducing unwanted emotions, developing useful skills, changing attitudes and thinking, and uncovering or yeilding insights into the unconscious.

I agree with you that the five parts idea may be adding complexity that keeps some people from finding simple solutions. But people who can think of and apply simple solutions aren't reading my book--they don't need to. Yes, there are many people who can tell you a lot about their problem but they can't think of a solution--knowing more about possible solutions can help you see solutions you hadn't seen before.

If a solution just pops in your mind, you don't need to buy or read a book.

There may be different kinds of over-analyzers: some prefer to think about the problem more than to solve the problem. I think some people do gain insight over a long period of time by reading Freud and many other thoughtful therapists (e.g. I think learning about my attraction to my mother helped me understand my life), but this took years or months and may be a different process from quick cures by overcoming an anxiety.

Being aware of emotional changes may be helpful; being worried or obsessed about them may be unhelpful. What do you think?

drclay

Hi, I appreciate your thoughtful response. Please don't think I'm trying to challenge your theories; just trying to understand. You clarified my question about 5 "parts" of a problem by saying not necessarily, but there are 5 "aspects." You also refer to them as levels. Isn't that all the same thing? Also, I don't think I 'splained myself very well initially. I don't think that quick solutions are necessarily "simple." Some of us might know what the solution is, or could be, but have a hard time building the bridge to get there. I think I might be one of those people if going to New York, like to go to New York directly, rather than via Rome. In my line of work, I do a lot of root cause analysis and find it a useful tool in my own life. Perhaps, we're more aligned than we think we are!

I'd love to hear what you think of my comment about hypersensitivity. Do you think that could be true?

Also, I appreciate your honesty about your attraction to your mother, but it sort of freaked me out. My experiences with pdocs, therapists, etc. have been less than stellar. I like to think that the person (professional) helping me is less whacky than I am. One PhD (male) wanted to leave his wife for me. A psychiatrist I once saw, told me how he and his siblings assisted his mother in a "final exit" suicide and was questioned by the cops. In a psych hospitalization , my therapist told me, "heck, there are a lot of sick people here, all you have to do is lose a few pounds and get back out there."

Once again, I'm off the beaten path. Maybe, I'm just slow to trust and just want to be reassured that you're not another whack job!?
Thanks,
S.

Okiedokie:

I'm sorry you have had weird experiences with "wacky" therapists. I'm pretty sure you will not think I am another one.

What is a root cause analysis?

You asked about my view of hypersensitivity: "I certainly think that most of us, certainly I do, tend to be extremely sensitive, perhaps overly so, to physical and emotional changes within ourselves. Do you think this hypersensitivity contributes to an increase in "problems?" Give me some examples of extreme sensitive and I'll tell you how unusual and/or how pathological I think those events are.

Considering the three therpists you mentioned, I agree with you they were pretty wacky and a very odd sample of therapists.

drclay

yeah it does sound like you have met some whack jobs lol...

that being said... there is controversy over whether mental disorder is categorical or dimensional. if it is categorical then there is a hard distinction between mentally ill and not mentally ill in which case you would indeed hope that your clinician's wouldn't be mentally ill! if it is dimensional rather than categorical then there isn't a hard distinction between mentally ill and not mentally ill because it would be a matter of degree. still, one would expect clinician's to be more on the not mentally ill end of the spectrum lol.

freud was fairly novel in suggesting that we are ALL mentally ill, basically. i guess i figure that ideas, thoughts, desires, emotions, all of this stuff is healthy... where the unhealthy comes into it is what you DO with the stuff you have got.

but yeah, people thougth freud was a wack job because of his notion that everyone was pretty %#@&#! up really...
lol

but

Believe in Him or not --- GOD LOVES YOU!

Want to share your Christian faith? Click HERE

ahem.

my self help ideas are:

1) everyone is a wack job really. accepting that helps me feel human.
2) everyone has wack job thoughts (beliefs, desires, emotions etc) . accepting that helps me feel human.
3) there is a distinction between *having* these beliefs, desires, emotions etc and *acting* from them, however...

Hi Dr. Clay,
Glad to hear you aren't one of the kooky ones! An example of physical oversensitivity would be someone who has experienced panic attacks who becomes severely anxious at the mere THOUGHT of another panic attack; or someone who is constantly "checking" their own emotional and/or physical state to reassure themselves they are aok. Or because they once suffered from a certin malady they have this internal checklist they review each hour (whatever time period) to make sure they aren't coming down with it again. Gosh, now I sound like a whack job! Does that make sense?

Please check out root cause analysis at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Root_cause_analysis

It is a very time-consuming process, but very effective.
Thanks,
Sandy

Oakiedokie:

You gave a good description of hypersensitivity. It just happened that this article appeared on the Internet:

ANXIETY SENSITIVITY A RISK TO MENTAL HEALTH Mon Nov 13, 2006

By Amy Norton

NEW YORK (Reuters Health) - The fear of fear itself may make people more vulnerable to developing certain psychiatric disorders, a study suggests.

Researchers found that people who are especially sensitive to the physical signs of anxiety - from sweaty palms to a pounding heart - have a higher risk of developing anxiety disorders, including recurrent panic attacks.

For about 20 years, researchers have recognized a trait called anxiety sensitivity, where people interpret the physical aspects of anxiety as a threat in and of themselves. They may, for example, believe they're having a heart attack when their heart rate rises in response stress.

Past research has suggested that anxiety sensitivity might be a risk factor for future anxiety disorders, including panic disorder.

But the new findings, according to the study authors, are the first to give strong evidence that this is the case.

The study doesn't prove that anxiety sensitivity directly causes clinical anxiety disorders, explained lead author Dr. Brad Schmidt, a professor of psychology at Florida State University in Tallahassee.

But if it does contribute to these disorders, then that would raise the possibility for prevention, he told Reuters Health.

The study, published in the Journal of Psychiatric Research, included
404 young adults who were followed over two years. At the beginning of the study, they were interviewed and completed a battery of standard tests, including the Anxiety Sensitivity Index.

This index gauges a person's fear of the bodily sensations that arise with stress and anxiety -- such as increased heart rate, sweating and dizziness.

In general, the researchers found, people who scored high on the Anxiety Sensitivity Index were about twice as likely to suffer a panic attack or be diagnosed with an anxiety disorder during the study period.

In another study not yet published, Schmidt and his colleagues have already examined whether behavioral therapy to reduce anxiety sensitivity lowers the risk of future anxiety disorders.

Those results are promising, according to Schmidt, and more- definitive findings should come from a planned five-year, multi-site trial.

SOURCE: Journal of Psychiatric Research, December 2006.