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Default Feb 28, 2023 at 09:57 AM
  #1
Hey there. For the past few days I have discovered the philosophy of Stoicism. I always avoided it because I equated it with a kind of Spartan mental toughness due to the modern meaning of the word "stoic" but the actual philosophy is not about this. It's quite interesting and I think will have implications for my mental health.


It is not a religion, but many of the principles are similar to Buddhist principles and some to Christian principles. Like Buddhism, Stoicism says that you can't control external events and should focus on your own mind. As someone with mental illness I can't always control my mind but I do have *some* control. Like Buddhism, Stoicism advises to pause before speaking. There is a difference between responding and reacting.


Like Christianity, Stoicism advises to forgive those who wrong you and refrain from judgment. One of the most interesting ideas I've come across in Stoicism is that of not cutting off friends who disappoint you. This is a counterpoint to the modern attitude that a friend who doesn't live up to your expectations is not a "real" friend. Which I think leaves many people friendless. I'm absolutely not talking about people who are abusive or toxic.


Another really interesting idea in Stoicism is not to avoid challenges but seek them out. Also, not to value your success by money or possessions or outcomes but by how hard you worked towards a goal.


Anyway, I'm obviously very new to this philosophy but many with depression seem to be helped by it.
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Default Feb 28, 2023 at 07:21 PM
  #2
What you've written has piqued my interest in Stoicism.

Thank you for sharing.
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Default Mar 05, 2023 at 11:19 PM
  #3
I'm interested in the part about not cutting off friends who disappoint. I did that a few months ago. Now I regret that I did.
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Default Mar 06, 2023 at 12:14 AM
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What I found out the hard way is if we keep the friends that disappoint us in our life,they continue to disappoint us more and more.Eventually at some point we have to cut them off.If we donot they start to disrespect us.That had happened to me.
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Default Mar 07, 2023 at 12:33 AM
  #5
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Originally Posted by Mendingmysoul View Post
What I found out the hard way is if we keep the friends that disappoint us in our life,they continue to disappoint us more and more.Eventually at some point we have to cut them off.If we donot they start to disrespect us.That had happened to me.

I haven't found that but I do think there's a line between fallible and toxic. I've had to end two friendships in the past and while I really missed the people, they were toxic to me.
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Default Mar 07, 2023 at 11:34 PM
  #6
Yep,small disappointments are okay.Like forgetting birthdays,but wishing the next day. Showing up late for a dinner date,forgetting little promises,.things like that.We definitely can't keep toxic and abusive ones.
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Default Mar 12, 2023 at 07:34 PM
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I too became interested in Stoicism a few years ago, it is a very practical philosophy for living...some aspects of Stoicism are hard to practice but the precepts are easy to understand.
I created a Mind map about this a while back, I was trying to post here but it turns out to small to include everything I researched on it.

Thank for the thread!

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Default Mar 12, 2023 at 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Mendingmysoul View Post
What I found out the hard way is if we keep the friends that disappoint us in our life,they continue to disappoint us more and more.Eventually at some point we have to cut them off.If we donot they start to disrespect us.That had happened to me.
Your post is causing me to rethink what I might do about this friend that I cut off. I think your post does sum up my history with this person. Over the years, there were disappointments. Also, she seemed to test my boundaries. She definitely was more of a taker than a giver. I had decided to just accept some of this. I even thought it was good for me because I learned more about sticking up for myself. Our last conversation was an instance of her being disrespectful. There'd been others. She likes to needle people and see what she can get away with. Sometimes I took it as verbal playfulness, which it was when it was mild. But she'ld up the ante now and then, making me feel challenged and tested. Suddenly, I felt like I'ld had it. She tossed off an insulting remark. She was quite out of line. It's not like she didn't know any better. She is quite socially sophisticated. It felt like she was looking to see what I would put up with. That's an odd goal for a friend.

I would like to be smarter about handling that kind of behavior when I'm on the receiving end of it. I got quite rattled. I'ld like to not be that vulnerable.
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Default Mar 12, 2023 at 08:36 PM
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I haven't found that but I do think there's a line between fallible and toxic. I've had to end two friendships in the past and while I really missed the people, they were toxic to me.
In the past, I had to deal with a toxic sibling. He's disappeared from my life. I feel bad about that and think how I might have better related to him. It's probably a delusion for me to imagine I could have found a way to successfully relate to him.
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Default Mar 12, 2023 at 09:18 PM
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Rose76,when we accept too many disappointments from so called friends that means we donot value ourselves enough. When people notice that we donot value ourselves, they start devaluing us.There is no need to tolerate disappointments, disrespect, insults,devaluation from anyone,friend or not.
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Default Mar 13, 2023 at 05:13 PM
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Rose76,when we accept too many disappointments from so called friends that means we donot value ourselves enough. When people notice that we donot value ourselves, they start devaluing us.There is no need to tolerate disappointments, disrespect, insults,devaluation from anyone,friend or not.


This is the common wisdom, but what is "disappointment"? I think toxic friends who use us are one thing, but friends who disappoint us may be in another group. As an example I have a friend who regularly ghosts me, but the same friend loaned me a *large* sum of money (I paid her back) and has always been there when I really needed someone. She has her own issues including depression and I've known her 21 years.


It seems like many people are friendless, and that's what makes me question why people are dropping friends. If it's for things like tardiness, social awkwardness or things that might be out of someone's control. People have flaws.


I personally would also rather have casual friends than no friends at all. So I'm not going to necessarily drop someone because the friendship has cooled down or is not going to deepen.

Again, I would never encourage anyone to remain friends with someone who is toxic or abusive.
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Default Mar 13, 2023 at 10:23 PM
  #12
We need to take into consideration the whole picture,not one or two instances. Nobody is perfect and flawless.To err is human.We need to assess the damage any relationship is doing to us.Whether it is reciprocal or not most of the time.I am sure many of us have faced some which are not healthy to us.The decision to keep or to cut off depends on many factors.
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Default Mar 23, 2023 at 03:36 AM
  #13
I think I'm going to write a note to the friend I dropped back in the fall. First I have to unblock her number on my mobile phone. I don't know how to do that yet.

I thought of writing her that I was too thin-skinned when we had that verbal exchange that was unpleasant. I might say I regret taking it to heart and that I'm still a caring friend to her, if she would like to renew the connection. Maybe. I haven't decided for sure on doing that.
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Default Mar 23, 2023 at 11:08 AM
  #14
I have lacked self esteem most of my life. I am 64 now, And it has been uphill for me since I can remember...
I used to walk long distances all the time when I went with my parents to a club down by the beach. A few of my friends would go there on weekends and we would hang around short periods of time.
When I could not find anybody, I would walk and walk...
I was involved in swimming and volleyball... I always knew something was off kilter but wasn’t able to deal with it until much later in life...
fat forwarding to these days, I rediscovered that I still look to other people for approval... I need to continue to understand that SELF esteem derives from self, and that wether or not people like me or accept me for who I am, I need to develop that Stoic attitude that my mind is in my power, to set better boundaries, to change my perspective on failure, and to choose my own path...
It has been of much help to believe in something or someone better than me, my Higher Power, whom I choose to call God. I know this is not much of a stoic thought but...
I have relied on my Higher Power most of my life, I would be dead or in an institution if I did not have God in my life.

Once again, good thread. I need to continue to learn more and more...

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Post Apr 19, 2023 at 05:34 PM
  #15
I was able to copy and paste from my mind map, so here is some tights to ponder on...

10 BASIC PRINCIPLES TO GET YOU STARTED.
1. Your mind is in your power
You have power over your mind – not outside events. Realize this, and you will find strength. – Marcus Aurelius

This first principle simply puts everything this way: by controlling your mind you’re able to live a happier, more peaceful life. Be self-aware. All you have control over is your own mind. You can influence outside events more or less, but everything comes down to your opinion about what happens around you. By learning to master your thoughts, you’ll master your life and realize a power far greater than anything outside yourself.
set better boundaries (fastcompany.com)
Maintaining boundaries at work is critical.
Own and communicate your policy
When you communicate your need for boundaries respectfully and matter-of-factly (and make it clear that “It’s not you; it’s me”), people tend to accept and comply with your requests for privacy.
HOLD THE LINE ON SOCIAL MEDIA
It’s not a great idea to friend coworkers on social media. If you do, or if your job requires it, make good use of your privacy settings so that you can maintain your personal network separate from your work network. As a general rule of thumb, don’t share any information with colleagues on social media that you wouldn’t share at the office.
LIMIT AFTER-HOURS COMMUNICATION AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE
CHECK YOURSELF IN SOCIAL SETTINGS
remind yourself of your boundaries prior to the event, and make sure you uphold your privacy policy throughout the evening. Evaluate your behavior to ensure you’re not sending any unintended signals. Ask yourself whether you’d be comfortable if a report of the soiree came out tomorrow.
If you’re unsure how much information is too much information, always err on the side of caution and maintain your professionalism. Your career and reputation are on the line, so never hesitate to be a steadfast advocate for yourself and your privacy.
8 Things You Should Always Keep Private In Life (8 Things You Should Always Keep Private In Life)
1. YOUR RELATIONSHIP ISSUES
2. YOUR HONEST DEEDS
3. THE JUICY BITS FROM YOUR PERSONAL LIFE
4. YOUR BANK ACCOUNT BALANCE
5. YOUR FAMILY PROBLEMS
6. YOUR BELONGINGS
7. YOUR WEAKNESSES
8. YOUR GOALS
35 Psychological Tricks To Effectively Manipulate Any Situation You’re In (35 Psychological Tricks To Effectively Manipulate Any Situation You’re In | Thought Catalog)
2. Be grateful for what you have.
Do not indulge in dreams of having what you have not, but reckon up the chief of the blessings you do possess, and then thankfully remember how you would crave for them if they were not yours. – Marcus Aurelius

Gratitude is know to make you happy today. However, most Stoics spoke of its power ages ago. You should always be happy for what you own. Being grateful shifts your way of thinking from ‘’I wish I had more’’ , ‘’I need this’’ , ‘’I wish I was like him/her’’ to ‘’I’m glad that I have this and that’’, ‘’I now appreciate my stuff better’’ , ‘’I should never be obsessed with other’s material life’’.
3. Time is your most precious resource.
‘’Not to live as if you had endless years ahead of you. Death overshadows you. While you’re alive and able– be good.’’ –Marcus Aurelius

Our life is finite. When you’re young you don’t really listen to the old folks that say ‘’life is very short’’. Everything is evanescent around you. The world as you know it is in complete change and it seems like time flies by quickly. Remind yourself regularly that time is your most precious resource. You only have so long to live, so strive diligently to live in a way that will leave you with no regrets. Don’t waste your life with people that pull you down, don’t accept every situation you’re in and quit that job that you hate.
4. Don’t look for happiness in the material.
“It is not the man who has too little, but the man who craves more, that is poor.” – Seneca

Excessive materialism is just another sign that something inside of us is missing, that we need acceptance from others, and so we try to fill it with material stuff. Happiness should come from within. Sure it’s nice when you buy a new watch/phone/car or a simple T-shirt, but remember: Every material good is temporary, it degrades slowly everyday. Don’t be obsessed with material goods
5. Change your perspective on failure.
“You don’t develop courage by being happy in your relationships everyday. You develop it by surviving difficult times and challenging adversity.” – Epictetus

Reaction to failure matters much more than the actual cause that made you fail. For some people it’s natural to see failure as a negative. However, remember your goal: to become the best version of yourself possible. If you look at things in that way, each failure becomes a valuable opportunity for personal development, an opportunity to use as a stepping stone to almost inevitable success.
6. Reflect on your productivity.
“It’s not that we have little time, but more that we waste a good deal of it.” – Seneca

Very related to number 3, on any given day, how much time do you spend towards what matters most to you? Try to spend more time with your family, on your crafts or on taking care of yourself. Successful people tend to be great at prioritizing what is most important to them, so reflect on what you spend your time doing and make the necessary changes to realize the life of your dreams.
7. Always remember WHY.
‘’At dawn, when you have trouble getting out of bed, tell yourself: ‘I have to go to work — as a human being. What do I have to complain of, if I’m going to do what I was born for — the things I was brought into the world to do? Or is this what I was created for? To huddle under the blankets and stay warm? Don’t you see the plants, the birds, the ants and spiders and bees going about their individual tasks, putting the world in order, as best they can? And you’re not willing to do your job as a human being?’’ –Marcus Aurelius

I think this quote is enough to make you understand this principle.
8. Have a role model.
“Associate with those who will make a better man of you. Welcome those whom you yourself can improve. The process is mutual; for men learn while they teach.” – Seneca.

It’s hard to measure your progress as a human being without anything to measure it against. Similarly, it’s bad to measure yourself against people who are not positive role models. One should compare himself with the best people but also with the least good people, this way one can exactly now where he is ranking. You need to find someone that inspires you because of their great character, who represents the qualities you find most desirable. Once you’ve found someone you can aspire to be like, you’ll have a benchmark you can consistently use to gauge your progress.
9. Choose your own path.
“What difference does it make, after all, what your position in life is if you dislike it yourself?” – Seneca.

You may listen to other people’s opinions but always choose whatever you feel it’s best for you. Certain people will give you good or bad advice but they’ll never get trough your experience. At the end of the day, you are the one who matters the most. Be rational, make good choices.
10. Apply what you learn.
‘’Don’t just say you have read books. Show that through them you have learned to think better, to be a more discriminating and reflective person. Books are the training weights of the mind. They are very helpful, but it would be a bad mistake to suppose that one has made progress simply by having internalized their contents.’’ – Epictetus

It’s easy to get into reading or watching self-development videos or even reading this list to get good knowledge. Always try to have a strong correlation between gathering knowledge and actual achievement. Take notes from what you read and plan to apply your knowledge. By doing this with every material you consume, this will become a habit. Eventually you’ll soak up useful information in no time. Try to remember, for example, a few useful ideas from what I’ve written above.



There is more, I am glad I can copy and paste the outline of my mind map and plug it in here... Enjoy!

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