[Koigokoro-Love]

My boss, my roomie, and I all sat down and had a talk one day about what it was like to be part of the LGBTQ community. My boss is gay, and came out in a small town back in the 80's. He was telling us how things have changed, and how for me and my roomie (she's a lesbian, and I'm bi). He mentioned that, although there is still issues surrounding queer predgidus, he things the real focus should be Trans rights. There was more to the conversation, but this one got me thinking.

Now I'm not saying I disagree. I very much agree with his statemnets, but it got me thinking of what other social issues were out there, and which ones specifically related to me.

I am a 20 year old, bisexual, polyamorous woman. And that's what I'm opening up for discussion.

What is polyamory:
polyamory |ˌpälēˈamərē|
noun
the philosophy or state of being in love or romantically involved with more than one person at the same time.

How do you know you're polyamorous:
I think it's the same way you know you're gay. You just know, or realize that monogamous relationships just... don't fit right.

Are humans naturally polyamorous:
I don't think so. I know my parents are very much monogamous, and in a beautifully healthy relationship. I personally think there is three states of being in this regard: monogamous, serial monogamous, and polyamorous. Theoretically serial monogamy could be a form of polyamory that the individual hasn't accepted, but I don't have an answer on that one.

Should polyamory be acceptable and/or legal:
I think so, but I'm biased. There is huge contraversy here, one example being a cult in BC, Canada, where women were forced to live with one man, in an almost constant state of pregnacny, and compleatly cut off from society. (Sorry if my facts are wrong, I didn't know about it until after, and am too lazy to do much research in it tonight). That being said, that isn't waht polyamory (or any type of 'poly' relationships) are suppose to be imo. A side quetion of this is is there a way for polyamory to be legal without infringing on human rights?

Why do I feel like it's the next cause of sexuality activism:
I know in my own experience, I have been shuned, shut down, 'punished', and verbaly harassed for being honest about my polyamory. I have to be really careful at watching people's reactions, because it makes them feel like they can easily get into my pants, or I am the perfect person for a threesome. People don't understand what I'm talking about a lot of the time, and take it as a come on, and I have gotten in a lot of trouble for it. It's also really hard to find partners who are okay with it, even if they say they are. Basically, it can be brutal being poly, and you can face a lot of social alienation.

So, I want to know your opinions, either on these questions, if you think polyamory exists (which is an acceptable view point and I will not get mad at you for it), your experiences with poly (good or bad), if you are (as I feel kinda lonely knowing only 1 other person who is!) and what type (sexual, as my ex was, or romantic. There's a big difference), what you think poly is (a philosophy, a social structure, a sexuality, a practice (religious or otherwise), ext.).

Also, for any who are interested, my boyfriend sent me this site: www (dot) polyadcocasy (dot) ca (I don't have enough posts to post it properly, sorry... :/ I'm new round this here parts.)
This site is for Canadian poly advocacy, and may not apply to you, however I am sure there is others like it for other countries.

[Vibe]

Well, I'll step up to the plate on this one. I've been involved in these types of relationships before. The first time it didn't work out very well (but it wouldn't have worked out even if there hadn't been other people involved). I'm... not entirely sure what you'd consider the relationships I'm in now to be. It's a bit odd, but it works for me. I'll summarize by saying I can romantically be with more than one person but I limit it to very specific people who are in a very specific, shared situation with me. I can also be sexually involved with these people without being in a romantic relationship. The only limits we have are self-imposed, of which there are a lot; and that we don't pursue people who are outside of our little group. But it works.

I suppose I'll address your questions now:

How do you know you're polyamorous: I'm not sure about this. I don't even know if I technically am. I think it would be very easy to become confused or mistake not being ready for commitment as polyamory.

Are humans naturally polyamorous: I'm going to take a page from my mother here and say that most humans are serially monogamous. However, there are exceptions.

Should polyamory be acceptable and/or legal: Acceptable - yes. I'm not sure if it should be legally recognized though. This is largely due to the controversial cults you've spoken of (Look up fundamentalist mormons if you wish to read more about this. Under the Banner of Heaven was a pretty popular book on the topic.) However, these cults tend to be polygamous which tends to refer to polygyny (one man with multiple wives) rather than polyamorous. In these situations women are used and lack many rights. It's about control. So I'm pretty against polygamy. I've also seen polyamorous relationships as being very fluid. I don't know of any yet (doesn't mean they don't exist though) which are permanent. I'd need to see long term groups actually vying for marriage equality before I considered it a major issue. Most people I know who are polyamorous don't like the concept of actually being tied to people in an exclusive bond. They're often very free spirits who balk at the idea of marriage in general.

What you think poly is: I think it's a choice people make in how to conduct their sex lives. I think many people are naturally drawn that way and should not be shunned for it. I do not think it is a form of sexual orientation since I see sexual orientation as referring to which gender or sex one prefers in a partner. However, I think it can be a very important part of one's sexual identity. There is a hell of a lot more to a person's sexuality than orientation.

I want to add in one more section. What polyamory isn't: This term does not refer to a monogamous person who cheats. I personally don't think it refers to polygamists, which I described earlier. One does not have to be bisexual to be polyamorous and it does not mean someone is hedonistic... I am, but that's beside the point. Most polyamorous people I know are very free sexually, and do not approve of concepts of 'ownership' over one's partner. I'd be interested to see how many self-described polyamorous folks that doesn't apply to though. Like you, I haven't met as many as I'd like.

[Okami]

Im interested to know.
What exactly is the difference between polygamy and polyamory?
Other than the obvious technicalities that one translates to 'many marriages' and the other 'many loves'.
They seem to be the same to me... In the same way 'omnisexual' and 'pansexual' ended up merging.... Im very stupid when it comes to this.... Transforming old-age terms into new age terms because we don't like the association cultures and religions have slapped onto them.

I mean. TECHNICALLY. Polygamy still labels individuals who are united or married with multiple other people.... And if polyamory is literally just... loving many others. Then.. What is there to legalize/illegalize? Hah. Having consensual sex with as many people as you want has never really lead to arrest. Just very pissy women who find out their husbands have been cheating.

So if there is a major difference that I don't know about other than:

A.) one sounds glittery and cooler than the other.
B.) one doesn't give us mental images of hairy old foreigners collecting as many P.Y.Ts as they can fit on the wedding aisle

then I legitimately want to know.

[Vibe]

Okami -

Lmao! I think you hit the nail on the head there. One of the biggest differences is the translation to 'love' instead of 'marriage.' Most polygamists I hear of are in closed marriages with many people. In these, the men tend to be free to marry other women whereas the women are bound to one man. Although there are some cases of polyandry (women marrying multiple men), it's not common. Usually marriage does not take place in polyamorous relationships. Men and women are equally open to pursuing outside relationships. This is done consensually so would not be considered cheating.

I'm not entirely sure what there is to legalize. I think there's a bigger problem with polyamory not being widely known about and accepted. However, I don't think it's nearly as big of an issue as lack of gay and transsexual rights. (Btw, I agree with Koi's boss that trans issues should be the next big thing.) I suppose some would vie for the allowance of open marriages, but I don't really think this is a good idea for a variety of reasons - some of which I mentioned in my last post.

Another difference between polygamy and polyamory is that polygamy, in practice, is almost always associated with religious values. Polyamory, in practice, is usually not. I have also never heard of human rights abuses associated with polyamory, so I can see why people would feel a need to differentiate between the two. A lot of recent polygamy in America also involves pedophilia - older men marry girls under the age of 14 in some instances. The girls have very little to no say in the matter. It's very sad. They also heavily abuse the system. Since their marriages are not legal all children are technically considered to be born out of wedlock. They get a lot of government assistance as a result. Your tax dollars at work. :/

[Okami]

As always, Vibe, you're very educational.
But...

-Single claw goes to chin and philosoraptor voice ensues-

"Usually marriage does not take place in polyamorous relationships."

When the polyamorous marry do they be become polygamists?

....

-Voice continues-
"Another difference between polygamy and polyamory is that polygamy, in practice, is almost always associated with religious values."

When polyamory becomes associated with new-age lesbians and gender-confused tree huggers... Will the polyamorous then call themselves polysexuals?

HMMMMM. But no. Really. It'll /never/ be as big as the gaytrans gig... (Thank whatever God wants to take credit...) Can you imagine what the Poly Pride conventions would be like? "Buy 5 tickets and get another five free!"... "Bring your whole family!!!! And your other whole family!!!! And your other whole family!!! And your other whole family!!!"

And I'll be honest. I didnt even think about the part of the bastard children... Really. My tax dollars go EVERYWHERE except my bank account... Which is seriously disturbing...

[Pandoren]

I don't have a problem with polyamory as a concept between concenting adults with good intentions (by that, I mean that I usually don't prosecute an idea in general, more how people behave within that idea). As already said, there is a difference between polyamory and cheating.

With the discussion above about polyamory vs polygamy, I always understood at a polygamous relationship was a purely V type relationship (one man married to two women etc) whereas polyamory was either a V type or more commonly thought of as a triangle situation relationship (where each person has a relationship with the other).

I can see how a polyamorous relationship might be rather difficult to maintain in practice, if two partners become closer and leave one a bit more distant, or if one of the relationships breaks down and makes the entire thing awkward or whatever. If it worked, I'm sure there are more benefits to being in love with more than one person, so that you are surrounded with love and have more loving contact than you might have in a monogamous relationship (like if your partner was working away a lot or something). I'm only imagining here though, since I feel no real appeal towards a romantic relationship of any capacity.

[Vibe]

Okami - Hah! Love it. To your first question - no, not unless the polyamorous individual decided to join a polygamous sect and adopt their ways. To the second question - no idea! Never heard that one before. But many do have various religious beliefs. It's just not the basis behind their sexual behavior. You need to look at the descriptions behind each as a whole since I'm more describing a culture than a strict definition. Unfortunately, I'm not good enough with words for that.

I get the point you're making about definitions though, and I agree. We tend to make up more and more new terms regarding sexuality, and in some cases (like with omnisexuality and pansexuality) I agree that it's pretty redundant. In this case, I can see where the separation is made though. A lot of this comes from the fact that Western culture has traditionally been very closed to what we now consider to be alternative sexual practices and desires (everything from fetishism to homosexuality to pansexuality could be included here). There's bound to be a period where lots of new terms are created as people who have never had a voice start to unite and define themselves.

Pandoren - It can be a triangle relationship. However, this isn't necessarily the case (and I've also seen a lot of problems arise with this type of relationship). I always worked my relationships as being individual. If I like someone and one of my current partners doesn't, I can pursue that and they can choose not to. If they like someone who I don't really wish to become involved with, they are free to pursue that person and I don't get a major say in it. For one person, it looks a lot like the center of a wheel with a lot of spokes pointing out. Except as the end of each of those spokes is another person with the center of their wheel. In my last relationship there were about 8 people total and it would have looked more like a kaleidoscope if we'd drawn it out. The main issue in these situations is jealousy and time. One relationship can be very difficult to manage. Imagine having five - especially when you're working a lot. It's pretty easy for feelings to get hurt, particularly if some people are very sensitive.

[likewater]

Is it romantic? Like what do you do for Valentine's day?

[likewater]

Was that a bad question?

[lynn P.]

Very good posts so far especially from Vibe. First of all I have nothing against polygamy or poly amorous relationships, as long as all are consenting to this. I married a Muslim man and after 30 yrs he made the decision to marry another woman (religiously) not legally. I didn't agree to this and this is an example of the harmful type. There are women who voluntarily agree to this arrangement and is this case its fine. This means the man can have several wives - all living in the same house(separate rooms) or different houses.

Polyamorous relationships involves each having more than 1 partner and all involved agree this is fine. They agree to abandon jealousy and don't feel resentful of each others involvement. Its not cheating and all are aware of each other. I think some people who aren't educated about this - assume its like cheating or they don't have high morals...not true. Personally I'm a monogamous person but I can understand these other preferences as long as no one is hurt emotionally from this arrangement.

[Pandoren]

Taking a thought from Lynn's post- most people desire close friendship relationships with a group of people rather than just one person. If someone can have poly-platonic feelings, why should a person not feel romantic connections with more than one person? Whether someone is of loose morals or whatever is a personality trait or behavioural trait. There is no reason why a person should not feel they want to surround themselves with a different kind of love and, as others have said, polyamory is as much a part of nature as monogamy, just some species have different survival tactics to others.

[likewater]

I think everyone has had romantic feelings / twinges for more than one person, it' s just if you choose to be monogamous, you choose not to develop them or follow up on them. For me that would divert / confuse my romantic energy. My mind is already
confused and split. I coulnt do that in my love life too. Who am i? By the way, who are you ? Lol.

[hanners]

Originally Posted by Koigokoro-Love

My boss, my roomie, and I all sat down and had a talk one day about what it was like to be part of the LGBTQ community. My boss is gay, and came out in a small town back in the 80's. He was telling us how things have changed, and how for me and my roomie (she's a lesbian, and I'm bi). He mentioned that, although there is still issues surrounding queer predgidus, he things the real focus should be Trans rights. There was more to the conversation, but this one got me thinking.

Now I'm not saying I disagree. I very much agree with his statemnets, but it got me thinking of what other social issues were out there, and which ones specifically related to me.

Well, I'm poly and trans, and here's my take on it:
I've been called some terrible names for being trans, been harrassed and shamed by family members, and had my life threatened (at knifepoint). I'm fairly certain I've been passed over for promotions and new jobs based on my status as a trans person. Others have been tossed out of washrooms, beaten, raped, and killed for being trans.

I have never heard of poly discrimination, and polyphobia going as far. We (as polyamorous people) deserve our rights too, but we also need to recognize that, aside from poly marriages, we have most of our rights already, at least in the Western world. We aren't 'othered' nearly as much as trans people are, or trigger so much revulsion and hate as trans people do. It's fine to stand up for our rights as poly people, but we need to remember to lend a hand when we can as well. That solidarity can only help everyone gain all our rights.

[hanners]

Oh yeah - I forgot to mention... Being poly doesn't come at a huge economic cost, either. I've had to spend what little savings I have on things like hormones, facial hair removal, an entirely new wardrobe, legal costs of changing my name and gender, and costs related to surgery (I'm lucky enough to live in a country where my SRS was paid for by my government, but I still had to spend over $3000 CAD on related expenses like airfare, recovery stay, etc.). In fact, I've run into a period of poverty due to long-term and repeated unemployment. I've actually had to go off my hormones now, due to the lack of funds for them, which is now adversely affecting my health.

[likewater]

((((Hanners))))